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Has anyone mathammered HC’ s tentaclids versus Harpy’s two Venom Cannon? My gut feeling is the more conventional heavy firepower looks more useful than the electrocritter gimmick


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Out of interest, if you use GSC and bring an IG detachment, are you allowed to use an IG character as your warlord?

As of yet there is no requirement that your Warlord have your army’s Faction, but I wouldn’t expect that to last beyond a couple of FAQ revisions

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
I don't have my hands on the codex yet, but i have seen som rumors. being able to DS 30 devil gaunts in the heart, and bring them back when the entire unit is dead for 3 cp seems super strong. And other juicy combos you guys have some up with`?

Zoanthropes are infantry. Meaning you can do three squads of three and then bring them up through Jormungandr tunnels and alpha strike with the Psychic Barrage. Use the tunnels to leverage good aiming, and Psychic Barrage isn't limited to wounding the closest unit like Smite is. IMO it's a good anti buff bubble combo, and even if it isn't as effective as you want it to be, I think the potential can freak your opponent out.


Edited for format

That is juicy indeed. Im sure a lot of people struggle with untargetable characters like guilliman.

That is a terrifying use of 4CP. But... whilst it doesn’t explicitly broadcast itself, when you say ‘I’m Jormungandr’ informed opponents will see your Raveners and expect the need to screen. I spend similar amounts of CP on Plasma Chosen in a Dreadclaw, and believe me, none of my regular opponents tend to leave juicy targets for them. You’ll certainly get a few games where a target-rich environment is left open, though, especially as they have better reach than Rapid Fire.

Hmm. I’m digging through my old bug army. Got a unit of 16 Hormagaunts. Gonna up them to 20, as I play Power Levels. Is it worth going up to 30 to get a good chance at re-rolling Wounds? Seems like their best function is really deep Pile In shenanigans, which suggests bringing the numbers to make it work...

Edit: Also, I’m probably going Behemoth, so big unit can rack up the Mortal Wounds as well.

I’m thinking about going for a Brigade. I also gots:

- 20 Dakkagaunts; going to add 10 Termagants and a Tervigon
- 20 Genestealers
- 6 Warriors
- 6 Ripper swarms

Unless I buy even more minis, something’s going to have to split into two. I like the idea of a Genestealer horde, I’ve been on the receiving end and it’s quite formidable.

Maybe two minimum Ripper units, for early screening and objective tagging? That’s how I use my Nurglings, but that army doesn’t have eighteen Spore Mines to fill out FA...

Okay, perusing the thread some more and looking at what I’ve got, I’ve built this 150 PL list to aim for. It’s based around a fleet that’s consumed an Ork planet, so lots of spores, dakka, choppy stuff, and some Weirdbugz:



I’m considering dropping the Broodlord for a Neurothrope and two more Zoeys. That looks like a strong psy-firebase. But I’d like to have a solid Genestealer incursion on one flank that can try to nerf some gunner unit, whilst the other flank gets riddled with Termagants.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Okay, perusing the thread some more and looking at what I’ve got, I’ve built this 150 PL list to aim for. It’s based around a fleet that’s consumed an Ork planet, so lots of spores, dakka, choppy stuff, and some Weirdbugz:

Spoiler:

BRIGADE: 9CP
HQ
Hive Tyrant: Whip and Sword, Venom Cannon, MIASMA CANNON, INSTINCTIVE KILLER, CATALYST, PSYCHIC SCREAM
Broodlord: THE HORROR
Tervigon: Talons, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, ONSLAUGHT
TROOPS
15 Genestealers: Scything Talons, Toxin Sacs, 3 Acid Maws
30 Hormagaunts: Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
30 Termagants: 20 Devourers, 10 Fleshborers
6 Warriors: 5 Dual Boneswords, 1 Whip & Sword, 4 Devourers, 2 Barbed Stranglers
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
ELITE
3 Tyrant Guard: Crushing Claws
3 Zoanthropes: PSYCHIC SCREAM
3 Venomthropes
FAST ATTACK
6 Spore Mines
6 Spore Mines
6 Spore Mines
HEAVY SUPPORT
3 Biovores
Carnifex: Crushing Claws, Twin Devourers, Spore Cysts, Tusks, Bone Mace
Tyrannofex: Rupture Cannon

SPEARHEAD - 1CP
Old One Eye
Screamer-Killer: Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer: Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts
Screamer-Killer: Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Spore Cysts

I’m considering dropping the Broodlord for a Neurothrope and two more Zoeys. That looks like a strong psy-firebase. But I’d like to have a solid Genestealer incursion on one flank that can try to nerf some gunner unit, whilst the other flank gets riddled with Termagants.

I’m thinking about dropping my Broodlord and Venomthropes for a Malanthrope, Lictor, and Meiotic Spore (to use the remaining budget). Mal would keep the Tyrant and T-fex going for longer. But with the other monsters packing Spore Cysts, is it all that necessary? Genestealers would lose their Synapse babysitter that provides re-rolls, but they and the Warriors and the dakkagaunts would gain the option to follow a Pheremone Trail, depending on the opponent and setup. Even the Zoanthropes could come along. That could be invaluable if I’m playing up the length of the table...

Edit: might drop the Meiotic and some Spore Mines for a unit of Raveners. This is Behemoth, by the way.

Also: if there’s a line of ten Termagants leading from a dakkagaunst cluster (same unit) back to the Tervigon, and nine of them die, leaving a cluster of dakkagaunts with a termagant buddy a foot away, they do still count as in synapse range and get to recycle the nine dead ones to rebuild the conga line, right?

Biovores might be a coin flip to hit, but they are uniquely guaranteed to have an impact. You hit, wham, a Devastator just died. You miss, something’s going to have to shoot the Spore mine before it goes ahead and hits anyway.

Thirty Behemoth Hormagaunts look pretty good. Average up to five MWs. Against a target with 3+ save, probably 9W total with Toxin Sacs.

Solid candidate for a Pheremone Trail alpha strike, actually. Not hard to knock down a tank to that sort of state. Bounding Leap has great potential for being a similar headache for gunners as Warptime Warp Talons. I’m going to be on the lookout for opportunities to Adrenaline Surge - that’s potentially an extra foot of movement; never mind the attacks, I’m just happy to shut down a load of units’ shooting.

FYI

Warhammer Community have confirmed that Rending Claws Tyrants are still completely legal.

https://m.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/p.1925340157786614/1925340157786614/?type=3&source=47

Got my first post-Codex game in today! Old One Eye was AMAZING. Death Guard opponent baited him out with some Nurglings. Behemoth not being inclined to restraint, he broke ranks and stomped on them for First Blood.

My Warlord, the nearest target? He took a LOT of incoming dakka. Catalyst helped enormously, so much so that when the Deathshroud charged him, he tanked their strikes (Adaptive Biology seems deceptively strong) and then (after downing three Command Points of spinach) proceeded to eat the lot of them. Nom!

Pretty glad my primary fleet is Behemoth colours. Probably going to main it on my other one as well tbh, maining Word Bearers with some Berzerkers and Khornate Terminators and Possessed has made me fond of re-rolled charges.

So when people are using multiple different Hive Fleets across their detachments, are y'all painting them to reflect this? I'd raise an eyebrow if a fleshthing tried to tell me that their three devastator squads with blue armour and inverted omega insignia are actually imperial fists, as is their chaplain with half his face missing. Not best practice for WYSIWYG clarity, and probably not popular with TOs...

What can we do to safely activate Adaptive Biology? Minefields, Perils of the Warp, and Mysterious Objectives are very niche options. We have the entirety of our Codex, GSC, and most of AM to work with. Double points if it’s not something that’s clearly got to get FAQ’d.

 Dynas wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:


So when people are using multiple different Hive Fleets across their detachments, are y'all painting them to reflect this? I'd raise an eyebrow if a fleshthing tried to tell me that their three devastator squads with blue armour and inverted omega insignia are actually imperial fists, as is their chaplain with half his face missing. Not best practice for WYSIWYG clarity, and probably not popular with TOs...

I am just going to either buy some custom unit markers/tokens, or just use some rhinestones or other small token like thing to denote my different fleets, if I decide to go hybrid.

The difference between the Nids codex painting one color and playing another fleet vs the Space Marines, is that the various SM chapters each have their own codex. If Behemoth had a codex, then leviathain, then kronos and so on then it would be comparable.

Now, that’s not entirely true.

Codex SM has got seven chapters in it, just like our seven hive fleets. Wolves and the Angels are more unusual outliers, but the Codex compliant (ish) chapters have long been Ultramarines palette swaps. A few versions ago, Codex Space Marines actively encouraged you to say that your yellow-armoured Captain with Fist iconography leading an army of the same was a proxy Vulkan Hestan, bestowing his Salamanders-themed bonuses to every unit’s heat and hammer based weapons. And had a sniper squad led by undercover Telion.

SM collectors who’d converted their off-brand characters in good faith went through the adjustment period. Though it’s absolutely true that, for Tyranid players, this is a much bigger adjustment - given the horde nature of many armies, probably a bigger one than the one for people who’d had an army of Death Guard Havocs and Obliterators for six months before 8ed threw that right out the window. But their bitter taste is a lot fresher than our long standing collections.

At least our unique characters aren’t HF specific. We dodged that axe. And I think those who want a diverse gene pool in their swarm can get along without mass repaints; look at the Cryptus units from 7ed - they’ve been given a marking that distinguishes them from the rest of Leviathan. That sort of thing should do a fine job of making clear you your opponent ‘these are the ones who hide in tunnels and get cover everywhere, these are the ones who re-roll their charges’ and so on. And - perhaps more importantly - make sure we don’t accidentally get the incompatible synapse networks mixed up.

What are people making of these Genestealer node things? They feel a bit gimmick, but I can see scope for them surrounding a bunch of T-fexes and Biovores who’ve got a screen of Gaunts to add a counter to deep strikes. Like a squad of Berzerkers in a Rhino next to all Havocs, but more flexible and cheaper.

Hmm. Technically, if they do indeed count as your models, there’s even a question an opponent could raise about your own use of a node in your first turn and removing it from play - is that first blood?

Common sense suggests they are simply counters, but who knows how that will turn out in the FAQ.

 Niiai wrote:
I have painted a leviathan army. And that is what I am going to play. But inspiered by the codex I thought maybe I should include some Kronos unist. I bought a pack of zoanthropes and converted up 3 malanthropes.

However, the malanthrope is best as a leviathan unit? It has the 3++, benefits from the 6+++, can heal itself back with smite. It is flying so it can trigger the leviathan strataggem. It does not benefit from Kronos rules, and the only benefit it ads is the deeper shadow abilaty.

What makes for a good Kronos addon to the army? I am on a budget money vice. I am thinking mayby 1 neoronthrope and 3 biovores that I can convert from hive guards. That is a cheaqp detachments. The Neuronthrope can have the Norn Crown to deal with synapse problems.

Other sugestions are also welcome. That is why I am asking.

I'm confused, are we talking about the Malanthrope (FW floaty brain bug, 10power) or Neurothrope (former Zoanthrope unit leader, 4power)?

Gotcha :-)

Neurothropes seem to be really good mid-range support units. Re-rolling 1’s gives them a casting roll of 7.8 - almost as good as a +1 to cast.

They’re the cheapest Synapse unit, and one that has CHARACTER benefits.

Casting their support spell doesn’t stop them from Smiting as well, with 24” range.

If you want a safe pair of hands for denying Slay The Warlord, they’re a cheap option to sit back and watch Swarmlord or OOE run pell-mell into the fray.

Really, it seems to be a solid addition to any Hive Fleet, and I’d avoid overthinking how each Hive Fleet’s special tricks might affect it. Being slow and having little melee capability beyond Smite and Psychic Scream, it’s a poor candidate for Leviathan’s Stratagem - that particular trick wants Gargoyles, Flyrants, or our Flyers.

It would certainly be a neat addition to a Kronos artillery battery. But don’t forget that it would only give Synapse and Instinctive Behaviour coverage to other Kronos units.

Ah. Good catch

'Subtract 2 from its charge roll if it declares a charge against any unit other than the nearest enemy unit'

If you’ve paid Power Level and it’s all the same budget-wise, MRC maw-claws or MST of Tyran?

I main with Cultist-heavy CSM and I'm surprised that people haven’t already adjusted to hordes. Though I guess competitive Chaos players are spamming Malefic Lords and minimaxed Horrors, and the Conscript bogeyman has been banished.

Playing against my friend’s Tyranids, he had a Swarmlorded Genestealer horde. A few Stranglers was easily enough to wreck my screen to allow stealers to run in between the survivors and get to my Havocs.

Definitely looking into T-cyte Swarmlord, 30 Trygon Hormagaunts, and Pheremoned Tyrant Guard for my own Behemoth deep insertion force. Onslaught on the Horms looks good, with AGs that’s getting them well into the 9” bubble, T-cyte Stranglethorns should make a good contribution to opening a breach for them to flood through. Probably Catalyst on Swarmie? Old One Eye’s probably going to be my Warlord...

Seems legit. Behemoth feels powerful but not OP, I'm happy to have my bugs painted in their OG colours. Having a few Khorne CSM units, I can definitely vouch for charge rerolls. I welcome Kronos into the metagame, I'm really not keen on all this Malefic Lord spam I'm reading about.

...I was about to reply to @DaBraken that you can just bring on your Lictor *at the end of your movement phase* and immediately afterwards your (for instance) Zoanthrope unit that was in Reserves.

BUT now I can’t find where the BRB says that, in Matched play, the ‘roll a 3+ to bring on Reserves’ rule from where the Reserves rule is first described is ignored.

This edition’s rulebook is a headache. We don’t have simplified core rules, we have core rules that are front-loaded for a demo game and then everything else is scattered around with no map.

Your initial collection is sixty-five Warriors?!? That is some hella dedication to a theme!

 Insectum7 wrote:

changemod wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Your initial collection is sixty-five Warriors?!? That is some hella dedication to a theme!

And kinda samey, in that context?

Looks like, whilst certainly deathspitters and boneswords are the clear efficient choice, the force is going to look very homogenous as a result.

It's all the old Warriors from 20+ years ago. Shameless plug: see my sig.

Long story short, I wanted an army where the basic troops were bigger than Primaris marines. The old Warriors are taller than the new ones, too.

WHOA. So you’re the reason I can’t find any to expand my three Hive Guard I built from my old ‘90s Warriors

xmbk wrote:
I tend to agree on Swarmie. I think a lot of competitive lists remove him turn 1, he has a low defense/value ratio. He almost requires Tyrant Guard, imo. I'd rather have his points in units, though he can completely dictate a game, if not outright win for you. But I tend to think that won't happen against the really good players, which is when I need it most.

He absolutely requires Tyrant Guard. And he’s almost certainly worth it all.

The thing with the Tyranids is that they’re an all-encompassing organism. The further you go towards a synergy list, the less useful ‘makes its points back’ becomes as an indicator. And Tyranids are THE synergy army, more than any other (with the possible exception of Epidemius lists). Guilliman can never once swing his dad’s sword and yet still be a lynchpin of a victory through the buffs he confers, and Swarmlord, whilst being a slightly superior melee Tyrant, is also the only thing in the entire game AFAIK that can GUARANTEE a second move, entirely on your terms, with zero CP expenditure.

He is the way you get thirty Hormagaunts to engage half a dozen gunner units. Even if they are Ultramarines, if you have a Malanthrope you’ve halved their firepower - and made overcharged Plasma unthinkable.

If you’re having a footslogging Tyrant, it’s tricky to make the case to cut that out and make it a generic unnamed one.

Huh. Venoms could have quite justifiably been given Character-like hiding ability. Death Guard can do it with a fly cloud stratagem, and it’s the same basic principle - obstruction of vision.


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Oddly, Malanthropes at 140 are still way off from being commensurate with their PL of 10. That’s equivalent to like 200pts. How did they get that from 90pts before? This is like Malefic Lords originally being 30pts/4PL.

 Lance845 wrote:
They should fix smite by fixing psychic focus.

Let all powers be cast multiple times.

Each time you try to manifest the same power in the same phase you increase its difficulty by 1. (A 5+ power becomes 6+ then 7+ etc etc)

Buffs/debuffs dont stack with themselves. Now there is a soft/hard cap on spamming powers because it gets less and less likely to work and encourages more variety in powers without limiting to 1 cast a turn.

I agree with this in principle. But, as a Chaos player - one who doesn’t even have any Primarchs or whatever - I will warn now that replacing Smite spam with Warptime spam is probably going to be more of a sledgehammer solution than any localised points hike. Magnus’s weakness is if he rushes you on the first turn, he gets shot. Not if a Berzerker horde swoops in with their up to 12” of pile ins and make damned sure you’re not going to Fall Back from the big guy. Oh, and your Overwatch? Warp Talons kill it instantly.


and their Kharybdis

Excellent report. Question - when your stealers killed Magnus, did you try to eat his brains?

Hang on. Overrun, followed by Adrenaline Surge? OR can’t move you within 1”. You can’t pile in if there’s no enemies within an inch?

...Unless you charged this turn, which they they did. BUT they can’t make attacks against stuff they didn’t charge. So, it’s 4CP for an extreme deep insertion GS sweep, that has decent odds on being able to surround a model in a unit it engages, preventing a Fall Back. NICE.

A little heavy on the semantics, but seems likely to survive FAQ revisions due to the high cost and scope for counter charges.

Oh, I’m not saying that an FAQ is required to clarify the mechanics, I’m saying it’s an extremely powerful double-tap that may get nerfed in the medium future.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Why does the table list Bio Plasma Canon BS4 and BS3 the same? Surely the BS3 version costs more?

It’s BS4+ and 3+. Not the old ‘deduct 7’ system. Took me a minute as well

Okay.

There’s an argument that some may make that Warptime, being FAQ’d to be permissible on a unit that arrived from Reserve, puts a question mark on the cited RAW.

After all, the core rules say you can’t move any more DURING THE TURN THEY ARRIVE - and Warptime allows them to move in the psychic phase... of the turn they arrive.

Now, the reason this precedent does not apply IMO is that the passage goes on to say THEIR ENTIRE MOVEMENT PHASE IS USED IN DEPLOYING TO THE BATTLEFIELD.

So, whilst there has been a de facto rewrite of the ‘no more moving in the whole turn’ by the specific example of Warptime, there’s not yet a precedent - though an FAQ may change that - enabling Metabolic Overdrive to change the fact that the unit’s movement phase has concluded by arriving from reserve.

8ed is a decent enough rules system with user-unfriendly formatting that gets rid of a whole chapter of USRs in favor of frontloaded intro play that requires twice as much back and forth looking up things to play beyond that.