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 Astmeister wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Has anyone mathammered HC’ s tentaclids versus Harpy’s two Venom Cannon? My gut feeling is the more conventional heavy firepower looks more useful than the electrocritter gimmick


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Out of interest, if you use GSC and bring an IG detachment, are you allowed to use an IG character as your warlord?

As of yet there is no requirement that your Warlord have your army’s Faction, but I wouldn’t expect that to last beyond a couple of FAQ revisions

Against T7 3+ or T8 3+ 4 tentaclids inflict 1,5 wounds while 2 heavy venom cannons inflict 2,6. Against a T7 3+ with hard to hit they both inflict 1,7 damage. Against a flying tank with T7 or T8 tentaclids inflict 2,6 wounds. The drool cannon adds 0,6 wounds to all those targets.

In the end the harpy wins by 0,5 wounds against non flying targets. Chrone wins by 0,6 against Hemlocks and similar targets and by 0,5 wounds against fire prism like targets.

Actually a Crone's Tentaclids deal 1.73 wounds, while the HVC of the Harpy do 1.78 wounds. And you should also factor in the bomb drop of the Harpy

Hmm no, my math says:

4 tentaclids
2 hits
at S5 you wound on 5+ (0,33)
at no AP you get saved on 3+ (0,33)

2*0,33*0,33= 0,218
To this you add the shock damage:

2 hits, every hit inflicts 0,66 mortal wounds for a toal of 1,32 wounds, which added to 0,218 totals about 1,5

The HVC:

4 shots
2 hits
at S9 it wounds on 3+ (0,66)
at AP-2 you get saved at 5+ (0,66)
3 damage for each unsaved wound

2*0,66*0,66*3= 2,6

Also, i only accounted for the ranged threats. Spore drop is not a ranged threat.

I'm really liking gorgon for warrior spam.

Boneswords + toxin sacs make for some horrendous melee capability if a prime is buffing.

9 bonesword warriors (even if you arent allowing double bonesword for 5 attacks each) puts out 36 attacks, hitting on 2, poisoning on 4+ for 2dmg a pop and -2 armor with the strat, and they are cheap. 28 points apiece or 36 with deathspitters.

If you take zoans and dakkafex behind them they probably wont even get shot at.

Marmatag wrote:How do you guys model your Tyrants with Devourers? Do you use the FW models? I am going to be snipping off arms or just playing with "counts-as" until i figure this out. Also winged tyrants only have 2 slots on each side, and 1 of those slots is consumed by my wings.

I originally built mine from spare Harpy arms. Just snipped off the tab that fits their weapon barrels, trimmed down the ammunition sacks a bit, and then glued a pair of devourer cones to it with a bit of greenstuff to fill the gaps.

 N.I.B. wrote:

We don't tailor lists around here, he had no idea what I would bring and I'm usually light on psykers. He just brought an all-comers Space Wolf list that he likes (cc Dreadnought spam with some psyker backup and a Knight).

Fair enough and no offense intended. Just found it a bit suspect to see two of such a highly specialized model.

Spoletta wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Has anyone mathammered HC’ s tentaclids versus Harpy’s two Venom Cannon? My gut feeling is the more conventional heavy firepower looks more useful than the electrocritter gimmick


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Out of interest, if you use GSC and bring an IG detachment, are you allowed to use an IG character as your warlord?

As of yet there is no requirement that your Warlord have your army’s Faction, but I wouldn’t expect that to last beyond a couple of FAQ revisions

Against T7 3+ or T8 3+ 4 tentaclids inflict 1,5 wounds while 2 heavy venom cannons inflict 2,6. Against a T7 3+ with hard to hit they both inflict 1,7 damage. Against a flying tank with T7 or T8 tentaclids inflict 2,6 wounds. The drool cannon adds 0,6 wounds to all those targets.

In the end the harpy wins by 0,5 wounds against non flying targets. Chrone wins by 0,6 against Hemlocks and similar targets and by 0,5 wounds against fire prism like targets.

Actually a Crone's Tentaclids deal 1.73 wounds, while the HVC of the Harpy do 1.78 wounds. And you should also factor in the bomb drop of the Harpy

Hmm no, my math says:

4 tentaclids
2 hits
at S5 you wound on 5+ (0,33)
at no AP you get saved on 3+ (0,33)

2*0,33*0,33= 0,218
To this you add the shock damage:

2 hits, every hit inflicts 0,66 mortal wounds for a toal of 1,32 wounds, which added to 0,218 totals about 1,5

The HVC:

4 shots
2 hits
at S9 it wounds on 3+ (0,66)
at AP-2 you get saved at 5+ (0,66)
3 damage for each unsaved wound

2*0,66*0,66*3= 2,6

Also, i only accounted for the ranged threats. Spore drop is not a ranged threat.

Sorry, I was talking about Hard to Hit targets, where the Crone can reroll the dice roll because of fly.

Tentaclids against hard to hit flyer with T6, 3+:

4*(1/3+2/3*1/3)*(1/3*1/3+1/6*2+1/3) = 1.73

2 HVC against hard to hit flyer with T6, 3+:

4*1/3*2/3*2/3*3 = 1.78

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I took a squad of 5 Zoanthropes to fill points because I'm still building Warriors. One got shot. The remaining four nearly one-shotted Guilliman with Smite for 2D3 and Psychic Scream for another D3, did 8 Mortal Wounds in a single phase. Some Warriors Deathspitted the last wound and Guilliman didn't get back up, even with a CP reroll.

First time outing with the codex went pretty well

I'm amazed someone let you move the super-smite battery so that Guilleman was the closest model.

It was after a little history of Warriors connecting with his lines, Repulsor getting killed by Swarmlord, then Guilliman coming up to counter Swarmlord.

And honestly, nobody was expecting the Zoanthropes to do that much damage.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I took a squad of 5 Zoanthropes to fill points because I'm still building Warriors. One got shot. The remaining four nearly one-shotted Guilliman with Smite for 2D3 and Psychic Scream for another D3, did 8 Mortal Wounds in a single phase. Some Warriors Deathspitted the last wound and Guilliman didn't get back up, even with a CP reroll.

First time outing with the codex went pretty well

I'm amazed someone let you move the super-smite battery so that Guilleman was the closest model.

It was after a little history of Warriors connecting with his lines, Repulsor getting killed by Swarmlord, then Guilliman coming up to counter Swarmlord.

And honestly, nobody was expecting the Zoanthropes to do that much damage.

That kinda highlights exactly why people are dissapointed with Zoanthropes though: They're meant to be a psychic artillery battery, but even absolute best case scenario you're gonna score 9 wounds.

Now yes, those are special punch through invulnerable wounds, but compared to the kind of damage a more classic warp blast power, each Zoanthrope tossing out a bolt of conventional damage, might be expected to do? Very underwhelming.

Mortal wounds generally make for a nice bonus, but outside of some extremely min-maxed builds aiming for them as a primary damage method is dubious.

I don't have my hands on the codex yet, but i have seen som rumors. being able to DS 30 devil gaunts in the heart, and bring them back when the entire unit is dead for 3 cp seems super strong. And other juicy combos you guys have some up with`?

You can't bring them back in battle forged play because it requires that you have reinforcement points to do it. So that strategem is not that useful. There are plenty of other neat tricks though.

I'm really lost how certain units can be bought/brought back in/created for free yet others can't be.

I'm really reallly hoping the 3CP strategems gets some FAQ love.

Effectively, all we're talking about is enabling Tyranids to give friendly Ballons to everyone.

It's simple, anything that Adds whole units (strategems and half of the Tervigon ability) requires that you pay for them first. Spore Mines and mucolid spores have an exception written into their rule for when UNITS create them.

Things that add models to a unit that already exists do not require that you pay points. For example, the half of the Tervigon ability that Adds Termegaunts to a unit that had lost some.

changemod wrote:

Spoiler:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I took a squad of 5 Zoanthropes to fill points because I'm still building Warriors. One got shot. The remaining four nearly one-shotted Guilliman with Smite for 2D3 and Psychic Scream for another D3, did 8 Mortal Wounds in a single phase. Some Warriors Deathspitted the last wound and Guilliman didn't get back up, even with a CP reroll.

First time outing with the codex went pretty well

I'm amazed someone let you move the super-smite battery so that Guilleman was the closest model.

It was after a little history of Warriors connecting with his lines, Repulsor getting killed by Swarmlord, then Guilliman coming up to counter Swarmlord.

And honestly, nobody was expecting the Zoanthropes to do that much damage.

That kinda highlights exactly why people are dissapointed with Zoanthropes though: They're meant to be a psychic artillery battery, but even absolute best case scenario you're gonna score 9 wounds.

Now yes, those are special punch through invulnerable wounds, but compared to the kind of damage a more classic warp blast power, each Zoanthrope tossing out a bolt of conventional damage, might be expected to do? Very underwhelming.

Mortal wounds generally make for a nice bonus, but outside of some extremely min-maxed builds aiming for them as a primary damage method is dubious.

Yeah I mostly agree with that, especially when only one squad can cast Psychic Scream, buuuuutt...

 killerpenguin wrote:
I don't have my hands on the codex yet, but i have seen som rumors. being able to DS 30 devil gaunts in the heart, and bring them back when the entire unit is dead for 3 cp seems super strong. And other juicy combos you guys have some up with`?

Zoanthropes are infantry. Meaning you can do three squads of three and then bring them up through Jormungandr tunnels and alpha strike with the Psychic Barrage. Use the tunnels to leverage good aiming, and Psychic Barrage isn't limited to wounding the closest unit like Smite is. IMO it's a good anti buff bubble combo, and even if it isn't as effective as you want it to be, I think the potential can freak your opponent out.


Edited for format

Eh I can sort of see tunnelling four Zoanthropes up to try to do 3d3 mortal wounds, but 9 of them to do a much less useful version of Linebreaker bombardment?

changemod wrote:
Eh I can sort of see tunnelling four Zoanthropes up to try to do 3d3 mortal wounds, but 9 of them to do a much less useful version of Linebreaker bombardment?

This is my thought. Jorm is definitely the best way to do that trick. The enemy can't shoot the zoeys before they get into position. You can pick and choose to maximize the effect... but it's so many points.

I think that having a Kronos Supreme Command of 3 Neuronthropes spread around the board would be beneficial in almost every army. SitW and the ability to really limit enemy smite, pyskic spells seems to be quite valuable.

Then build your army detachment for whatever other hive fleet is needed.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
I don't have my hands on the codex yet, but i have seen som rumors. being able to DS 30 devil gaunts in the heart, and bring them back when the entire unit is dead for 3 cp seems super strong. And other juicy combos you guys have some up with`?

Zoanthropes are infantry. Meaning you can do three squads of three and then bring them up through Jormungandr tunnels and alpha strike with the Psychic Barrage. Use the tunnels to leverage good aiming, and Psychic Barrage isn't limited to wounding the closest unit like Smite is. IMO it's a good anti buff bubble combo, and even if it isn't as effective as you want it to be, I think the potential can freak your opponent out.


Edited for format

That is juicy indeed. Im sure a lot of people struggle with untargetable characters like guilliman.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but can all units take toxin sacs and or adrenal glands. I notice some units don't have the option in wargear. Like Lictors, can they take TS and AG?

 Dynas wrote:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but can all units take toxin sacs and or adrenal glands. I notice some units don't have the option in wargear. Like Lictors, can they take TS and AG?

If its not an option then no they can not

changemod wrote:
Eh I can sort of see tunnelling four Zoanthropes up to try to do 3d3 mortal wounds, but 9 of them to do a much less useful version of Linebreaker bombardment?

I getcha, but imo the Vindicators are way easier to defend against, and Zoanthropes are a more useful unit to begin with. Also nine of them costs less than the three Vindicators. I'd advocate the Devilgant horde coming along for the ride as well, as you could fit the whole block within 3" of your tunneling Raveners. Then you have multiple threats up there, and the opponent has to make some choices about what to spend firepower on, as anti infantry firepower is ideal against every target. If they're going to shoot high power weapons at the Zoans with 3++, so be it.

The good thing about it is that it's an option. The trick is determining if Zoans would be decent in your army if you aren't going to use them that way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dynas wrote:
I think that having a Kronos Supreme Command of 3 Neuronthropes spread around the board would be beneficial in almost every army. SitW and the ability to really limit enemy smite, pyskic spells seems to be quite valuable.

Then build your army detachment for whatever other hive fleet is needed.

Oh that's cheap and dirty. Nice.

I know i'm late to the thread for this one, but TraceofToxin - I would go with the first list. This is pretty similar to what i'm doing.

I'm not a huge fan of the brigade, because it forces you to bring units that you really wouldn't *want* to include in a Tyranid list right now. So you end up doing it for the sake of 3CP.

What made you decide to go with mono-hivefleet? I was expecting a splash of Kronos. especially since primaris psykers and malefic lords are going to be bouncing around being dicks.

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
I don't have my hands on the codex yet, but i have seen som rumors. being able to DS 30 devil gaunts in the heart, and bring them back when the entire unit is dead for 3 cp seems super strong. And other juicy combos you guys have some up with`?

Zoanthropes are infantry. Meaning you can do three squads of three and then bring them up through Jormungandr tunnels and alpha strike with the Psychic Barrage. Use the tunnels to leverage good aiming, and Psychic Barrage isn't limited to wounding the closest unit like Smite is. IMO it's a good anti buff bubble combo, and even if it isn't as effective as you want it to be, I think the potential can freak your opponent out.


Edited for format

That is juicy indeed. Im sure a lot of people struggle with untargetable characters like guilliman.

That is a terrifying use of 4CP. But... whilst it doesn’t explicitly broadcast itself, when you say ‘I’m Jormungandr’ informed opponents will see your Raveners and expect the need to screen. I spend similar amounts of CP on Plasma Chosen in a Dreadclaw, and believe me, none of my regular opponents tend to leave juicy targets for them. You’ll certainly get a few games where a target-rich environment is left open, though, especially as they have better reach than Rapid Fire.

Also people talking about bringing squads back, you have to set aside those points in reserves to do that. Meaning, you need the squad to fully die, and then, and only then, can you pay CP to return it to life.

In short why not just bring 2 of the squad in your list in the first place

Hmm. I’m digging through my old bug army. Got a unit of 16 Hormagaunts. Gonna up them to 20, as I play Power Levels. Is it worth going up to 30 to get a good chance at re-rolling Wounds? Seems like their best function is really deep Pile In shenanigans, which suggests bringing the numbers to make it work...

Edit: Also, I’m probably going Behemoth, so big unit can rack up the Mortal Wounds as well.

I’m thinking about going for a Brigade. I also gots:

- 20 Dakkagaunts; going to add 10 Termagants and a Tervigon
- 20 Genestealers
- 6 Warriors
- 6 Ripper swarms

Unless I buy even more minis, something’s going to have to split into two. I like the idea of a Genestealer horde, I’ve been on the receiving end and it’s quite formidable.

Maybe two minimum Ripper units, for early screening and objective tagging? That’s how I use my Nurglings, but that army doesn’t have eighteen Spore Mines to fill out FA...

Definitely split the rippers. As a unit of 3 they easily hide from shooting while holding objectives and They're the cheapest troops unit to fill slots.

The Zoanthrope strategy is way too expensive, way too situational. It's not like it autokills most juicy targets. And if they are juicy and vulnerable, any decent player is going to wrap them with more than 9" of chaff.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
I don't have my hands on the codex yet, but i have seen som rumors. being able to DS 30 devil gaunts in the heart, and bring them back when the entire unit is dead for 3 cp seems super strong. And other juicy combos you guys have some up with`?

Zoanthropes are infantry. Meaning you can do three squads of three and then bring them up through Jormungandr tunnels and alpha strike with the Psychic Barrage. Use the tunnels to leverage good aiming, and Psychic Barrage isn't limited to wounding the closest unit like Smite is. IMO it's a good anti buff bubble combo, and even if it isn't as effective as you want it to be, I think the potential can freak your opponent out.


Edited for format

That is juicy indeed. Im sure a lot of people struggle with untargetable characters like guilliman.

That is a terrifying use of 4CP. But... whilst it doesn’t explicitly broadcast itself, when you say ‘I’m Jormungandr’ informed opponents will see your Raveners and expect the need to screen. I spend similar amounts of CP on Plasma Chosen in a Dreadclaw, and believe me, none of my regular opponents tend to leave juicy targets for them. You’ll certainly get a few games where a target-rich environment is left open, though, especially as they have better reach than Rapid Fire.

You don't need to use 4 cps. you can just bring them with a Trygon.Correct me if im wrong, i dont have the full codex yet


Automatically Appended Next Post:

xmbk wrote:
The Zoanthrope strategy is way too expensive, way too situational. It's not like it autokills most juicy targets. And if they are juicy and vulnerable, any decent player is going to wrap them with more than 9" of chaff.

It seems really strong to me. Bubblewraping high value aura characters is one of the strongest strategies in this ed. right now, and this is a direct counter to that. If they'er not dealt with straight away you're high value characters are in a really tough spot. And considering how fast tyranids are with this codex, they have genestealers with 3d6 pick the highest advance or rerolling charge ranges, you're looking at a lot of potential threats turn 1. So you have to choose what to deal with.

Trace,

As it stands, take the first list.

 killerpenguin wrote:
You don't need to use 4 cps. you can just bring them with a Trygon.Correct me if im wrong, i dont have the full codex yet

Trygon 170ish points vs 90 points in decent Raveners (3x deathspitter and rending claws).
If you got lots of cp, ravener taxi might be better while cheaper.

 killerpenguin wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 killerpenguin wrote:
I don't have my hands on the codex yet, but i have seen som rumors. being able to DS 30 devil gaunts in the heart, and bring them back when the entire unit is dead for 3 cp seems super strong. And other juicy combos you guys have some up with`?

Zoanthropes are infantry. Meaning you can do three squads of three and then bring them up through Jormungandr tunnels and alpha strike with the Psychic Barrage. Use the tunnels to leverage good aiming, and Psychic Barrage isn't limited to wounding the closest unit like Smite is. IMO it's a good anti buff bubble combo, and even if it isn't as effective as you want it to be, I think the potential can freak your opponent out.


Edited for format

That is juicy indeed. Im sure a lot of people struggle with untargetable characters like guilliman.

That is a terrifying use of 4CP. But... whilst it doesn’t explicitly broadcast itself, when you say ‘I’m Jormungandr’ informed opponents will see your Raveners and expect the need to screen. I spend similar amounts of CP on Plasma Chosen in a Dreadclaw, and believe me, none of my regular opponents tend to leave juicy targets for them. You’ll certainly get a few games where a target-rich environment is left open, though, especially as they have better reach than Rapid Fire.

You don't need to use 4 cps. you can just bring them with a Trygon.Correct me if im wrong, i dont have the full codex yet

Trygon is limited to bringing Troops choices without CP, so no Zoanthropes.

xmbk wrote:
The Zoanthrope strategy is way too expensive, way too situational. It's not like it autokills most juicy targets. And if they are juicy and vulnerable, any decent player is going to wrap them with more than 9" of chaff.

I see what you're saying, and I agree it's situational, but Tyranids also look to be really good at killing chaff. I think it's an interesting tool to have in the toolbox, and if one could come up with decent alternative plans for multiple Zoanthrope units for when the situation isn't right. . . Imo that's the only issue.

How do I bring both genestealers and a Broodlord in?

I mean... Yeah its a lot of potential MW that you can drop into a critical area. But consider all you need.

First each zoanthrope unit has to be within 6" of one of the units. Then all 3 units have to be able to trace los to the point on the battlefield only 18" away. Since deepstriking thats only <9" into the enemies line. With proper bubblewrap, especially on a gun line, the actual targets you want to hit with this could be up to 18" behimd the bubble wrap. THEN everything has to be clumped together around this point in the battlefield the zoanthrops have to see without blocking los to it. THEN you roll 1d6 for each unit in this magical perfect clump and you need a 4+ for it to do anything. Btw its a 5+ vs characters and a 3+ vs units with 10+ models.

The only reason you would WANT to do this thing is to annihalate a aura creating character and blow a chunk off the unit/s they are buffing but chances are the character will be untouched if its even targettable and the unit might take losses but wont die and you will have spent 4 comand points and lost the ability for 3 psyker units to manifest powers this turn so that you could gamble a 50/50 chance to hurt some infantry or some gak.

Just bring neurothropes.