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So, kill or tie up a screen with 30 devgaunts from a raveners tunnel (Jorg strat) and bring 30 horms from a Trygon tunnel with a glands (And or make them behemoth). Follow up with smite spam from neuros to kill vehicles. With 5 neuros, that's roughly 1000 points. Still plenty of room to add a ranged element and objective grabbers. Rippers, regular gaunts, malanthrope, biovores, hive guard. Whatever ends up being most point efficient and capable of dealing with vehicle spam.

But alas the codex isn't here yet so this is just speculation.

For the Jor adaptation, do you count as having charged if you fail the charge?

Well, it would allow you to use 1 trygon to bring 2 units IF the wording is that the unit brought by the stratagem only needs to be 'within 3 inches. If the wording is 'wholly within 3 inches' like the current Trygon rule then you'll need a unit of raveners instead. That'll save you about 120 points.

And yes it's actually easier to fit 30 gaunts within 3 inches of raveners because you can spread them out.

Can you use the jorm strat for multiple units? Do we have the full wording yet? Because raveners taxis for 30man blobs is insanely good if you can do it for multiple units.


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Or you could bring warriors or genestealers.... Or pyrovores

And 90points gets you 3 raveners with deathspitters and rending claws. Pretty cheap.

You could bring Venomthrope into a raveners tunnel and provide -1 to every unit that fails it's charge.

You might as well call this a rumor thread and make a new thread once the codex comes out. Otherwise we'll end up with 20 pages of speculation before we get to actual useful codex discussion.

I thought spore mines had to be 12" away? That's how they deep strike with the index and the rumor from this threads front page says 12" for the stratagem.

So even if you try to use them to secure a place to deep strike, your opponents can still deny you a crucial 3 inches with their own infiltrators. You'll be able to get close enough to shoot but you'll be put of reach for charging. It's better than nothing but still not as good as normal infiltrators.

Also, spore mines have a movement of 3" unless there's been a leaked changed to their profile.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It will depend on the Sporefield rule, the rule you are talking about if Float Down and it does say 12"

I edited my post to clarify. The spoiler we have so far says 12" for the strategem. Like everything in this thread, it'll depend on what the actual codex says.


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For now, the stratagem is worthwhile as a means to deny enemy deep strikers if you have a lot of things in your backfield that you don't want to get charged on turn 1. But they'll be less useful for securing a place for your own deep strikers.

It may still be a necessity for the meta to have some kind of infiltrator so this 3 CP stratagem is unfortunately the only option we ha e so far. I'm just pointing out it's limitations.

Dynas wrote:
Is anyone else seeing the value in Kraken. 3d6 advance. ON genestealers, brood lord, hormagaunts, already base 8" plus 3d6 +2d6 charge, thats a lot of range. Hormies can consolidate 6". You don't even need trygon tunnels. use those for your devil gaunts to shoot in the flanks.

Furthermore, you can fallback and RECHARGE the same turn, which means if your locked in combat, you can breakoff recharge and attack first.

Am i missing something.

It's 3d6 and pick the highest.

With regards to allying IG, keep in mind that shadows in the warp affects non-tyranids.

 Marmatag wrote:
edit - removed, will take it somewhere else.


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 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Pathogenic slime does not have to be used before firing. RAW you could use it after you determine saves, then double the damage after they roll poorly.

That is a good catch. I can't know if that is intended, but right now that makes it very, very good.

I can't see a tyranid list without a unit of dakkagants right now.

Can't use it on gaunts. Only monsters.

 Overread wrote:
Is that a new gun in the hands of the Chronos warrior or just a creative take on the venom cannon

Might be the relic cannon that ignores invulnerable saves

Can the jorm strat be used for multiple units? For example, spend 3 CP and bring in 3 units of genestealers from raveners holes? And give those raveners 24 inch deathspitters.

 Astmeister wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
How disgusting is kronos going to be with their warlord trait plus strategem. So if they fail any test within 18 inches (it's always on) psyker takes d3 mortal wounds. They are already -1 to cast for shadow in the warp and you can always use the stratagem for them to only use 1 dice! I mean - you are ether going to get a lot of free mortal wounds or they will just decide not to cast powers until your warlord is dead.

Both of these are great news for the your army that game.

Unfortunately it does not really help against some super psykers like Magnus, since he gets a +2 or +3 to cast anyway.
But I think that is will be really nasty against cheap smite spam lists.

It still helps, how expensive is that warp time ability that allows him to move again? Even with +2, on 1 d6 he may not get ut. And if he does, you still have a decent chance at denying. If I can keep him from double moving or gaining +1 invul then that will be a big help.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
Can the jorm strat be used for multiple units? For example, spend 3 CP and bring in 3 units of genestealers from raveners holes? And give those raveners 24 inch deathspitters.

\Yes. Its before the game starts so can be used multiple times.

Excellent, and the raveners don't have to be the same fleet. So right now I'm thinking of taking raveners in a behemoth detachment with adrenal gland gaunts or stealers in a jorm detachment and 3 neuros in a Kronos supreme command detachment.

Indeed. Perhaps a deep striking hive tyrant or Trygon Prime followed up by neuros in those detachments. That gives quite a bit of smite spam to support the flood of gaunts that will hopefully remove screens


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Something like this...

Behemoth battalion
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
30 devgaunts (in trygon)
3 Rippers
3 Rippers
3 ravs
3 ravs
3 ravs
Trygon Prine
3 biovores
2 biovores

Jormun Battalion
Old One Eye
Swarmlord
10 gaunts with glands
10 gaunts with glands
10 gaunts with glands
1 biovore

Supreme Kronos
3 Neurothropes

10 command points. You have the option of using those 3 10 man gaunts as a screen for the biovores and thropes or as an extra group of screen killers/melee attackers via the raveners tunnels that force stuff to fallback.
I take old one eye and Swarmlord because I love them at beatsticks and counter chargers. There's a lot of psychic support. I'd make a Kronos Neurothrope my warlord if I'm worried about psykers. Otherwise the malanthropes can be a warlord to deny slay the warlord.

I like flexibility and I feel like this strikes a nice TAC balance.

Edit: Moved a solo biovore to the other detachment so I can have 10 units on the board and 10 in reserves. Also, suffering IB just means he will miss more which is ok for biovores.

 Lance845 wrote:
So right now I am considering, without any particular detachment because I want to wait for points to really hammer out the exact thing... but

A supreme command with 4 neurothropes and a malanthrope. Maybe switch that to 3 neurothropes and 2 malanthropes depending on... things.

2 Ravener Broods (maybe 3)
2 30 man devilgant blobs
A hormagaunt brood with the 3rd maybe

Trygon Prime
30 Man Hormagaunt brood

2 exocrines

1 or 2 Hive Tyrants. One will probably have the miasma cannon.

Dakkafexes.to fill it out if I have any room.

That's similar to my thinking. It covers all the competitive bases. Chaf clearing, smite spamming, psyker shut down, and lots of bodies for objectives.

The only thing I worry about is infiltrators messing up our deep strike deployment. But at least devourers are 18 inch range.

njtrader wrote:
So what's the consensus on Mono-Hive Fleet adaptations? Jorm seems really good.

Any ideas?

If you're gonna go mono, I'd say Jorm for shooty lists and the 3d6 pick highest to advance one for melee lists...Kraken?

 Marmatag wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I just don't see why you'd take horms over geenstealers

The point cost, the consolidation for tarpit.

20 Genestealers is only 60 points less than 60 hormagants. So, for 60 points you get 3 times the bodies.

Genestealers are a good unit, though, i'm not saying they're not.

I guess the question really is:

How will you deal with taurox primes and heavy weapons teams? That's got to be the first question you ask yourself in list building.

Geenstealers can advance and charge though. So they are much better to use with the swarm-lord first turn charge tactic right?

Can you run 10 point geen stealers? If you don't give them rending talons?

No their claws come stock, can't drop them.

If you really want to advance + charge, you can do that with Onslaught. The nice thing is, if you're pairing with Swarmlord and onslaught, you'll know if you've manifested onslaught successfully before you advance.

Not quite. Advance is done in the movement phase. So that is only true if you don't advance in the movement phase. Then advance in the shooting phase with the Swarmlord's ability after knowing if onslaught worked. It's safer but also not as quick.

It's bad enough as just a trade. If it costs points too then it's completely out.

Can named characters like Old One Eye take relics?

I think the Trygon is very much worthwhile. A Prime with adrenal glands is now 203 points. It dropped by 16 points. They're a big threat that can get into melee turn 1 and will require a bit of shooting to kill. I'm considering giving mine the Kraken relic for -1 to hit because I know he'll get a lot of value out of it.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
I think the Trygon is very much worthwhile. A Prime with adrenal glands is now 203 points. It dropped by 16 points. They're a big threat that can get into melee turn 1 and will require a bit of shooting to kill. I'm considering giving mine the Kraken relic for -1 to hit because I know he'll get a lot of value out of it.

That drop in price is welcome but I was hoping it would be more. I want to run double trygon but it's tough to find the points.

Indeed. Right now I'm looking at double Trygon with 30 devgaunts and 30 hormagaunts. I'm undecided between behemoth and kraken. Maybe both?

Razerous wrote:
1 Trygon and 3 Mawlocs.

Yes and please.

Now we have cheap dakkafexes and dakka flyrants, even better

(Question: Can my Flyrants get 12 shots and have MRC? Or is it only 6 shots and MRC?)

With devourers you can get 12 shots and have a pair of MRC.

 luke1705 wrote:
One Brigade is definitely a necessity imo. I did a Brigade and an outrider (because mucolids lol) to get 13.

But like 3 heavies, 3 elites and 3 fast attack is 296. That’s stupid, especially because all of those units have great functionality. And 6 of them allow other units to be deployed in reserves.

I still think that a Tyranid army that doesn’t utilize half of the army as reserve units is doing something very wrong

I get 303 minimum (3 lictor, 3 mucolid and 3 biovores). 6 of which want to start in reserves though I suppose you can consider the mucolid a tax and just put them on the board to enable other reserve slots.

Were you thinking different units?

 Amishprn86 wrote:
So... From the way i'm reading this, Genestealers infestation places them into Reserves, then on turn one DS a Lictor, pay the 1CP to DS the Genestealers out of reserves instead of using the Infestation Nodes, effectively getting them anyone on the table turn 1.

You can take Behemoth for Re-roll charges at the same time.

Your still looking for a 9 on 2D6, thats a little over average, but with Re-rolls and Command Dice a Large unit or 2 of Genestealers should be able to charge almost anything turn 1.

Keep in mind that you can't reroll a reroll. So if you go Behemoth, you can either spend a command point to reroll 1 die or use the trait to reroll both.

Fhe large versions of Deathspitters and devourers have the same points cost nkw (7 each).

 Dynas wrote:

shadowfinder wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
I plan to run a battalion of Kronos with Flyrant and Neurothrope and 3x rippers to get the Pyskic phase shutdown. Give the flyrant the Balethron cannon to ignore invults.

Hive Tyrant with Balethorn Cannon, 2x Deathspitters w/ Slimer Maggots , Pyskic Scream, Catalyst; 153 pts

Give him wing and he is 180

Think about Kronos Biovores. Their spore mines that miss Count as a Kronos unit. You don.t need rippers to cause shut down. Just make the Biovores miss in the area you want.

Yeah this is true, but what if you don't miss. Or what if the mines all blow up. Granted you can move them, and stay out of synapse and force IB to get the -2, but still.


Question, since the Broodlord has the genestealer key word is he able to take advantage of the Genestealer Ingestations Nodes? I would think yes. Thoughts?

They cant possibly blow up before the enemy gets to his psychic phase. But the chance of hitting when you want to miss is there.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
I plan to run a battalion of Kronos with Flyrant and Neurothrope and 3x rippers to get the Pyskic phase shutdown. Give the flyrant the Balethron cannon to ignore invults.

Hive Tyrant with Balethorn Cannon, 2x Deathspitters w/ Slimer Maggots , Pyskic Scream, Catalyst; 153 pts

Give him wing and he is 180

Or just run Tyrant Neuro Neuro as a supreme command. And it's only a -1 AP... ignoring invlun is rarely going to come up because things will be taking regular saves. I can't think of that many units where it will come up, other than daemons.

Eldar psykers. Neuro and Zoanthropes. Genestealers. Harlequins.

Most of this is pretty situational but if you're taking an anti psyker detachment then it is a good weapon for that purpose.

Lictor.

It's also good if you use Swarmlord's hive commander and Kraken trait and/or stratagem. You can use both to reach melee turn 1 without allowing them to get shot.

So hide 2 units on nodes. Use a lictor and one CP to effectively deep strike one unit, and use the Swarmlord and 1 CP to move and double advance another unit.