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 Xenomancers wrote:
Talk to me about Zoanthropes people. What success have you been having with them? I'm thinking about a unit of 4 with a nuerothrope as HQ in their detachment. I'm thinking that the zoans are going to soak a lot of firepower. Probably better to have them get shot at than any other unit. They have 3++ saves. The first time you use their smite and do 2d3 mortals I think you will have their attention.

Surely 3 Neuronthropes for approx the same cost as Neuro + 4 Zoan's.

Add in a screen and you've got much more durable psykers and approx the same offensive power.

Neurothropes aren't a unit you would spam.

I like fielding one because it gives me a non-targetable form of synapse. Maybe 1 per battalion at most.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Talk to me about Zoanthropes people. What success have you been having with them? I'm thinking about a unit of 4 with a nuerothrope as HQ in their detachment. I'm thinking that the zoans are going to soak a lot of firepower. Probably better to have them get shot at than any other unit. They have 3++ saves. The first time you use their smite and do 2d3 mortals I think you will have their attention.

I dont think a unit of 4 will have 4 for long. People know what they do and a 3++ is nice but i have had individual zoans die fairly quickly because they are only 3w and 4t. Dont expect the 3++ to save them. In about 6-7 games ahere i had 1 neuro and 3 zoan in a unit pre codex not once did the neuro ever get to heal a zoan. 3 damage came too quickly and models dropped before i got the chance.

Maybe thats just my experience with them. Maybe my meta just knows better. But i would spend the points on zoans grabbing more neurothropes personally.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It's going to be grand the first time I play againt my eldar pal. He tried to quicken and I tell he he has to take it on 1 dice. ROFL!!! Kronos FTW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StarHunter25 wrote:
I'm thinking a nice gem for Kraken is throwing chameleon on a tervigon supporting a bunch of gants. With the likely venomthropes or malanthropes nearby things that normally chew it to bits are hitting at -2. Could breathe life into an otherwise overpriced HQ.

Tervigone is just straight trash. I'm pretty upset about this unit. I have 2 of them and they are freaking useless - and there is no way I can convert them into tyranofex - I would stab myself at somepoint i am sure - too many spikes.

I got the arms on mine magnatized. Might be able to give him the rupture cannon with the big belly and just in friendly games say he is a Tfex.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Tervigone is just straight trash. I'm pretty upset about this unit. I have 2 of them and they are freaking useless - and there is no way I can convert them into tyranofex - I would stab myself at somepoint i am sure - too many spikes.

Might just be a matter of playstyle incompatibility. I haven't been able to get a game with the new codex just yet, but most of my lists in 8th so far have had 2 Tervigons + 90 Fleshborer Termagants as the core foundation with various gunbeasts acting in support (pre-codex mostly Hive Guard, Biovores, and Exocrines). It is a much less aggressive list style than normal 'stealer shock but it also hasn't been bothered by opposing chaff either.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Talk to me about Zoanthropes people. What success have you been having with them? I'm thinking about a unit of 4 with a nuerothrope as HQ in their detachment. I'm thinking that the zoans are going to soak a lot of firepower. Probably better to have them get shot at than any other unit. They have 3++ saves. The first time you use their smite and do 2d3 mortals I think you will have their attention.

I liked them before in the index for mid-field synapse support, but the Neurothrope as a standalone is probably more optimal simply because they are cheaper per smite (2 Neurothropes is cheaper than a brood of 4 Zoanthropes) automatically know a second power, and cannot be targeted due to the character rules. That said, I did notice that the Zoanthrope's Warp Blast rule now also extends the range of their Smite to 24'' instead of the default 18'' (Neurothrope didn't get that) which is rather nice and only needing one psychic test to get 2D3 damage is more efficient for command point purposes.They also have the dubious distinction of not exploding on a perils unless the last model goes down so they are a degree safer too...

Tyranids seem to have some of the cheapest psykers around, per cast. It's not like Tyrants are paying much for their 2 powers either. But they just don't have that many powers that you particularly want to cast. Compare to Eldar who pay 50 points per Farseer power and ~40 points per Warlock power, but then have easily 6 or 7 powers that you could find a use for every turn.

I'm not all that impressed with the Neurothrope because I feel like I'm going to have plenty of psykers as-is, but at the same time it's too expensive for pure Smite spam. Like, a Tyrant does basically everything a Neurothrope and a Carnifex do, costs less than both combined, moves much faster, and is somewhere between 50% and 100% more durable than the Carnifex depending on what you're getting shot with. It's true that the Neurothrope provides Character synapse, but it's hard to kill multiple Tyrants, and at least for now you can also bring a Malanthrope which gives synapse and protects your other stuff too.

 Marmatag wrote:
Neurothropes aren't a unit you would spam.

I like fielding one because it gives me a non-targetable form of synapse. Maybe 1 per battalion at most.

I am going with 2 because they're our cheapest HQ, and they're a reliable way to have catalyst+onslaught on platforms that aren't likely to get killed. They can throw out a buff, smite something, provide synapse and fill an HQ slot for cheap. With Kraken they move fast enough to keep up with the swarm, since they should always be advancing.

Malanthrope + Neurothropes gives you enough synapse to cover a huge portion of the board, the -1 to hit and a source of catalyst/onslaught that should always have range to the units that need it.

Comparatively

Broodlords hit like a freight train and can carry a buff, but they're only one cast, pretty fragile in CC and cost SIX points less than a Trygon. If Broodlords were 130 or under I'd consider running them competitively.

Tyrants are awesome, but expensive and big targets. Swarmlord has an amazing bespoke ability, but is massively expensive (Especially after you pay for his pod or guard), and because of his ability, an even bigger target.

More than one Malanthrope feels like wasted points.

Tervigons are useless trash.

Primes are useless trash.

OOE is too expensive to use outside of a list built entirely around him.

So, to fill our 3-5 HQ slots, either you spam flyrants, or you do 2-3 flyrants and the rest neurothropes.

pismakron wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Neurothropes look like our go to psykers. Brood lords are nice. Especially if your running genestealers. But if you just want to pile in a bunch of smite spam on a durable platform neurothropes might be the best platform for their points in the game.

They are still 70 points for a single smite a turn. It is a great and versatile unit, but for pure smite-spam 30 point malefic lords still reigns supreme. At least until they get nerfed in chapter approved.

Thats a little disingenuous. Its 70 points for a 5w 4t 3++ character that knows smite +1, can cast 2, and deny 1, while providing synapse and shadow. And heals itself with its smite. The maleific lord is -1w -1t -1powers manifested and +1 powers known without providing buff debuff auras for the army and doesnt heal itself.

An extra 40 points is a steal.

 Lance845 wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Neurothropes look like our go to psykers. Brood lords are nice. Especially if your running genestealers. But if you just want to pile in a bunch of smite spam on a durable platform neurothropes might be the best platform for their points in the game.

They are still 70 points for a single smite a turn. It is a great and versatile unit, but for pure smite-spam 30 point malefic lords still reigns supreme. At least until they get nerfed in chapter approved.

Thats a little disingenuous. Its 70 points for a 5w 4t 3++ character that knows smite +1, can cast 2, and deny 1, while providing synapse and shadow. And heals itself with its smite. The maleific lord is -1w -1t -1powers manifested and +1 powers known without providing buff debuff auras for the army and doesnt heal itself.

An extra 40 points is a steal.

I wouldn't say 40 points is a steal.

I'd rather have malefic lords than neurothropes as the game currently sits.

That doesn't mean neurothropes aren't great units.

Not to sound like a dick, just that if you don't think Malefic lords/Primaris psykers are top 5 units in the game right now, you don't really have any business discussing competitive 40k.

I'm willing to revisit the "Warriors are awesome" discussion.

Bone swords don't quite qualify as game changing, but they are definitely a big deal. My concern is now keeping them alive, their defense is low for what they do.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Talk to me about Zoanthropes people. What success have you been having with them?

None. Tried 2x4 in a casual list, opponent brought 2 Culexus Assassins and had the first turn. Some light shooting from an IK and the Culexes caused casualties in both units, and then they were useless. Will never take Zoanthropes again. They suffer from the same stupid bundle rules as Venomthropes.

- Guys, the management say Thropes are from now on sold in 3's and therefore must be 3-6 per unit, so we have to come up with some rules. Any ideas?
- Yeah, make it really suck to have 3 models so they will want to buy another bundle and get 1337 ROOLZ for 4+ models!!!
- That's great!

What do people think of gorgon it seems Theres nothing majorly wrong with it for a 70/80+% melee list gak even the shooty nids are not exactly bad in cc. The reroll of 1's to wound is good if useing lots of toxin, the chance to roll that 6 is good.

Sure it may not be "competitive" but its fluffy and theamed to the hive.
Though saying that an out there list with gargs dropping in with a tyrant and raveners/trygon popping up with stealers in tow and a spod full of pyrovores to clear the chaff or a large unit of warriors thats a lot of in your face t1 or hold them for t2 or later. All the while the bigger beasties and gun beasts deploy and do there thing from the start.

On a different note can a prime join a warrior squad in a spod? Wording seems ambiguous.
Also im assuming the endless swarm and call the brood cost reserve points. Y/n

 N.I.B. wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Talk to me about Zoanthropes people. What success have you been having with them?

None. Tried 2x4 in a casual list, opponent brought 2 Culexus Assassins and had the first turn. Some light shooting from an IK and the Culexes caused casualties in both units, and then they were useless. Will never take Zoanthropes again. They suffer from the same stupid bundle rules as Venomthropes.

- Guys, the management say Thropes are from now on sold in 3's and therefore must be 3-6 per unit, so we have to come up with some rules. Any ideas?
- Yeah, make it really suck to have 3 models so they will want to buy another bundle and get 1337 ROOLZ for 4+ models!!!
- That's great!

Agreed.

Skullhammer wrote:
What do people think of gorgon it seems Theres nothing majorly wrong with it for a 70/80+% melee list gak even the shooty nids are not exactly bad in cc. The reroll of 1's to wound is good if useing lots of toxin, the chance to roll that 6 is good.

Sure it may not be "competitive" but its fluffy and theamed to the hive.
Though saying that an out there list with gargs dropping in with a tyrant and raveners/trygon popping up with stealers in tow and a spod full of pyrovores to clear the chaff or a large unit of warriors thats a lot of in your face t1 or hold them for t2 or later. All the while the bigger beasties and gun beasts deploy and do there thing from the start.

On a different note can a prime join a warrior squad in a spod? Wording seems ambiguous.
Also im assuming the endless swarm and call the brood cost reserve points. Y/n

The trait, relic and stratagem are all just wholly mediocre.

There is nothing ambiguous about it at all.

"When you set up a Tyrannocyte
in its hive ship, you can also set up a <HIVE FLEET>
INFANTRY unit of up to 20 models or a <HIVE FLEET>
MONSTER with aWounds characteristic of 14 or
less inside it (this cannot be another Tyrannocyte or
a Sporocyst)."

Unit. Singular. One unit.

 N.I.B. wrote:

None. Tried 2x4 in a casual list, opponent brought 2 Culexus Assassins and had the first turn.

Have to question how casual the match was if your opponent brought two of a very niche anti-psyker model against someone wanting to try out their psykers...

 N.I.B. wrote:

They suffer from the same stupid bundle rules as Venomthropes.

- Guys, the management say Thropes are from now on sold in 3's and therefore must be 3-6 per unit, so we have to come up with some rules. Any ideas?
- Yeah, make it really suck to have 3 models so they will want to buy another bundle and get 1337 ROOLZ for 4+ models!!!
- That's great!

To be fair, most of our infantry have such rules for larger than minimum units (Genestealers, Hormagaunts, Termagants, Gargoyles, aformentioned Venomthropes and Zoeys). The only ones that don't are the Warrior-chassis critters and the 'vores (and in the latter case they don't go above 3 models anyway).

I actually am curious about how well a brood of Venomthropes might do in a Jormungandr list. They are infantry so they qualify for Jormungandr's stratagem deployment wereas Malanthropes cannot due to being monsters. It could be nasty to have a brood pop up with actual combat beasts, charge in alongside to employ their melee stats and miasma ability, and then have the -1 to hit bubble in place for friendly models when the opponent inevitably backs away.

C4790M wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
In general, I think nids are going to be way too fast for most armies. I was looking at situations and realized that if you charge a screening unit turn 1, there are two possible outcomes that are amazing. First, you surround it but don't kill it. It can't fall back, you got a ton of free movement and are immune to shooting. The second is much more insidious. This works best with GS or horms that have had onslaught cast on them. You charge, wipe the unit, activate overrun (1 CP), move+advance AGAIN (so 8+ 3d6 pick the highest), then spend 3 CP to activate them to fight again (They charged, they are eligible to activate), allowing you to pile in to units WELL within the enemy deployment zone. You should, pretty easily, be able to wrap up something to prevent enemy shooting you, and hopefully shut down a large amount of enemy firepower. I recognize that it is expensive at 4CP, and you're giving up the ability to swing on anything you pile into the second time, but, particularly with Horms, you could be spending 4 CP to give a huge portion of your army a full turn to avoid being shot. If you were facing IG for example, and you made a 24" charge with GS into a conscript screen... you could easily wipe out a 20 man squad, then get a full move into their lines and another set of pile in+consolidates.

Dear god, I think I just threw up a little. That's amazing if it actually works though. It does feel like it goes against the intended use of the stratagem though, given it explicitly states you can't get within 1".

It's very CP intensive just to tie up a lot of units and not actually swing on them (since unless they were within 12" when you declared the initial charge, you couldn't have declared them as a target of your charge), but it absolutely could be a game-changer. Whether it's intended or not, GW would have to FAQ it to not work like that, as literally that is how combat works, assuming you wipe the unit on the turn that you charge and use the 1 CP stratagem. I personally think that it's a case of GW not realizing that people could combo stratagems like that, but it could be game-changing


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pismakron wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Neurothropes look like our go to psykers. Brood lords are nice. Especially if your running genestealers. But if you just want to pile in a bunch of smite spam on a durable platform neurothropes might be the best platform for their points in the game.

They are still 70 points for a single smite a turn. It is a great and versatile unit, but for pure smite-spam 30 point malefic lords still reigns supreme. At least until they get nerfed in chapter approved.

Casting 2 powers is big. I think that's what you need to fully take advantage of them. Tyranids have a lot of really good powers, and being able to do 6 smites + 6 Tyranid powers is rarely wasted.

 luke1705 wrote:

Casting 2 powers is big. I think that's what you need to fully take advantage of them. Tyranids have a lot of really good powers, and being able to do 6 smites + 6 Tyranid powers is rarely wasted.

This would absolutely be wasted. You only use Dominion if you're worried that you'll have a swarm unit more than 12" from synapse or you need to avoid IB on a unit more than 24" from synapse. Most turns you will have no need for this. Most games you will have no need for this. Paroxysm does nothing in many games and is useful for maybe 1 turn in others. Onslaught is good but is again something that you're only really excited to cast 1 or 2 times per game. Plus it's often the case that when you want to cast Onslaught on turn 1 you have psykers who aren't actually in Smite range anyway or who would be hitting trash units with it. You really only have that much use for 3 powers every turn (Catalyst, Horror, Scream) in addition to Smite, and then you'd be willing to forgo a Smite cast to use Onslaught when you need it.

Also guys, about neurothropes, they reroll 1s on psychic tests. Let's not underestimate how good that is for smite or getting a key onslaught off without using CP.

How do you guys model your Tyrants with Devourers? Do you use the FW models? I am going to be snipping off arms or just playing with "counts-as" until i figure this out. Also winged tyrants only have 2 slots on each side, and 1 of those slots is consumed by my wings.

 Dynas wrote:
SO I just thought of a funny way to kill Guilliman/montarion/other big Nastys.

Send Termigants into melee which are supported with Tervigon, when they get slaughtered in fight phase use Caustaic Blood stratagem to deal mortal wounds. Then have Tervigon respawn upto 10 dead gaunts. Then use Kraken to breakoff, shoot again (thinging a 10/20 or 15/15 split of fleshborer/devil), then charge back into combat with the big nasty. You get to fight first. When he fights back, rinse and repeat.

Let Rowboat bathe in our acidic blood until he melts in agony. LOL

No need for the whole shooting part (and I don't know how you'd do that) But Caustic Blood+Smite is "good enough" and Tervigons can Smite.

 Zimko wrote:
Also guys, about neurothropes, they reroll 1s on psychic tests. Let's not underestimate how good that is for smite or getting a key onslaught off without using CP.

Neurothropes are amazing. They're one of the best things in our codex.

But Malefic lords are better.

Neurothropes are not a spammable unit. 1-2 is all you should need to supplement your tyrants. If you elect to run without Tyrants, you should have a broodlord or two, which covers the 3 or so psychic powers you should expect to need on the regular.

As was noted, dominion and paroxysm are both pretty weak spells. With 24" for IB, and a pretty middling penalty outside of it, I can't imagine myself giving up smite for it outside of a very limited number of rare instances in which I'm already probably losing. Paroxysm is... not great. If it completely overruled striking first rather than breaking even with it, then it would have some very nice use to stop charging unit from swinging first. As it is, if a unit charges you with paroxysm, it will still swing first because the activating player chooses which units to activate first from the non-ASF group. There are a handful of situations where it will be useful, but in general, it's a super situational ability that will see limited play.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:
How do you guys model your Tyrants with Devourers? Do you use the FW models? I am going to be snipping off arms or just playing with "counts-as" until i figure this out. Also winged tyrants only have 2 slots on each side, and 1 of those slots is consumed by my wings.

I converted some beefier devourers out of crushing claws and 3x termagant devourers per arm on one, and fleshborer hives on the other. I call the feet monstrous rending claws. If I want to go 4x devourers, I just say the giant gun arms I have are combined pairs of devourers.

Hmm that's not a bad idea. Monstrous rending claw feet, I like it.

The 'hands' on the wings look like claws so I just consider them to be the rending claws.

 Marmatag wrote:
Hmm that's not a bad idea. Monstrous rending claw feet, I like it.

They're big ass claws. One might even call them, monstrous.

Dionysodorus wrote:
Tyranids seem to have some of the cheapest psykers around, per cast. It's not like Tyrants are paying much for their 2 powers either. But they just don't have that many powers that you particularly want to cast. Compare to Eldar who pay 50 points per Farseer power and ~40 points per Warlock power, but then have easily 6 or 7 powers that you could find a use for every turn.

I'm not all that impressed with the Neurothrope because I feel like I'm going to have plenty of psykers as-is, but at the same time it's too expensive for pure Smite spam. Like, a Tyrant does basically everything a Neurothrope and a Carnifex do, costs less than both combined, moves much faster, and is somewhere between 50% and 100% more durable than the Carnifex depending on what you're getting shot with. It's true that the Neurothrope provides Character synapse, but it's hard to kill multiple Tyrants, and at least for now you can also bring a Malanthrope which gives synapse and protects your other stuff too.

dont tell this guy that Astro paths cost 15points, sure they roll on 1d for smite but nothing else. 6 of them for each power and a primaries psyker at 40 points is 2 vanguard detachments for a cool 170 points

My plan's for three Neurothropes and 1+ Tyranid Primes as my HQ options.

Cheap, untargetable, boost the other units... pretty much everything I Want in command options!

I took a squad of 5 Zoanthropes to fill points because I'm still building Warriors. One got shot. The remaining four nearly one-shotted Guilliman with Smite for 2D3 and Psychic Scream for another D3, did 8 Mortal Wounds in a single phase. Some Warriors Deathspitted the last wound and Guilliman didn't get back up, even with a CP reroll.

First time outing with the codex went pretty well

Got a good sized tournament this weekend (Probably 16-32 people, including some of the top players in New England)

Got two list ideas-


or


First list is my current list. Second list opts to drop a Trygon, 1 termagant devourer and Neurothrope to get a brigade, netting me an extra 3 CP. I pick up a lictor to allow me to pheromone trail 1 unit of GS in place of the lost Trygon, the rest is cheapest-in-slot options. That being said, I don't think those units are actually terrible. Pyrovores moving 5" is pretty bad, but they get 3d6 pick the highest movement, and their flamer is 10" assault, so they should be threatening ~20". Spores are spores. Biovores give me a tiny bit of MW generation, but also the ability to try to generate more spores to get in the way. The second list also is a tiny bit more flexible with the GS, allowing me to choose on the spot if I want to use the node or the lictor. But, I give up a trygon, which hurts my MC saturation. I give up a Neurothrope, which weakens my SITW coverage, gives up my guaranteed onslaught from the start, and a smite battery. Alternatively I could drop the malanthrope, but I think -1 to hit will be too important vs shooting heavy armies. Against marines it reduces incoming damage by 25%, and against IG by 25-33%. That's a huge damage reduction.

Thoughts?

 Insectum7 wrote:
I took a squad of 5 Zoanthropes to fill points because I'm still building Warriors. One got shot. The remaining four nearly one-shotted Guilliman with Smite for 2D3 and Psychic Scream for another D3, did 8 Mortal Wounds in a single phase. Some Warriors Deathspitted the last wound and Guilliman didn't get back up, even with a CP reroll.

First time outing with the codex went pretty well

I'm amazed someone let you move the super-smite battery so that Guilleman was the closest model.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

None. Tried 2x4 in a casual list, opponent brought 2 Culexus Assassins and had the first turn.

Have to question how casual the match was if your opponent brought two of a very niche anti-psyker model against someone wanting to try out their psykers...

We don't tailor lists around here, he had no idea what I would bring and I'm usually light on psykers. He just brought an all-comers Space Wolf list that he likes (cc Dreadnought spam with some psyker backup and a Knight).

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Got a good sized tournament this weekend (Probably 16-32 people, including some of the top players in New England)

Got two list ideas-
[spoiler]Battalion - Kraken
Flyrant - 2x Devourers, MRC - Psychic Scream, Paroxysm (Warlord, -1 to hit relic, never suffers penalty to hit trait)
Flyrant - 2x Devourers, MRC - Catalyst, The Horror
Malanthrope

30x Hormagaunts
30x Hormagaunts
3x Rippers

Battalion - Kraken

Neurothrope - Catalyst
Neutothrope - Onslaught

20x Genestealers - 5x Acid Maw, 20x ST
20x Genestealers - 5x Acid Maw, 20x ST
30x Termagants - 30x Devourers

Trygon - Adrenal Glands
Trygon - Adrenal Glands

I like this list. But wouldn't it be better to shave off 10 Devilgants to put Adrenal Glands on both Hormagaunts and the Flyrants? You could even afford Toxin Sacs on the Flyrants.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Got a good sized tournament this weekend (Probably 16-32 people, including some of the top players in New England)

Got two list ideas-

Spoiler:

Battalion - Kraken
Flyrant - 2x Devourers, MRC - Psychic Scream, Paroxysm (Warlord, -1 to hit relic, never suffers penalty to hit trait)
Flyrant - 2x Devourers, MRC - Catalyst, The Horror
Malanthrope

30x Hormagaunts
30x Hormagaunts
3x Rippers

Battalion - Kraken

Neurothrope - Catalyst
Neutothrope - Onslaught

20x Genestealers - 5x Acid Maw, 20x ST
20x Genestealers - 5x Acid Maw, 20x ST
30x Termagants - 30x Devourers

Trygon - Adrenal Glands
Trygon - Adrenal Glands

or

Spoiler:

Brigade- Kraken
Flyrant - 2x Devourers, MRC - Psychic Scream, Paroxysm (Warlord, -1 to hit relic, never suffers penalty to hit trait)
Flyrant - 2x Devourers, MRC - Catalyst, The Horror
Malanthrope
Neurothrope

30x Hormagaunts
30x Hormagaunts
3x Rippers
20x Genestealers - 5x Acid Maw, 20x ST
20x Genestealers - 5x Acid Maw, 20x ST
30x Termagants - 29x Devourers

Lictor
Pyrovore
Pyrovore

Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore
Mucolid Spore

Trygon
Biovore
Biovore

First list is my current list. Second list opts to drop a Trygon, 1 termagant devourer and Neurothrope to get a brigade, netting me an extra 3 CP. I pick up a lictor to allow me to pheromone trail 1 unit of GS in place of the lost Trygon, the rest is cheapest-in-slot options. That being said, I don't think those units are actually terrible. Pyrovores moving 5" is pretty bad, but they get 3d6 pick the highest movement, and their flamer is 10" assault, so they should be threatening ~20". Spores are spores. Biovores give me a tiny bit of MW generation, but also the ability to try to generate more spores to get in the way. The second list also is a tiny bit more flexible with the GS, allowing me to choose on the spot if I want to use the node or the lictor. But, I give up a trygon, which hurts my MC saturation. I give up a Neurothrope, which weakens my SITW coverage, gives up my guaranteed onslaught from the start, and a smite battery. Alternatively I could drop the malanthrope, but I think -1 to hit will be too important vs shooting heavy armies. Against marines it reduces incoming damage by 25%, and against IG by 25-33%. That's a huge damage reduction.

Thoughts?

 Insectum7 wrote:
I took a squad of 5 Zoanthropes to fill points because I'm still building Warriors. One got shot. The remaining four nearly one-shotted Guilliman with Smite for 2D3 and Psychic Scream for another D3, did 8 Mortal Wounds in a single phase. Some Warriors Deathspitted the last wound and Guilliman didn't get back up, even with a CP reroll.

First time outing with the codex went pretty well

I'm amazed someone let you move the super-smite battery so that Guilleman was the closest model.

That first list is very elegant. I guess you'll have to consider how much mischef 3 extra CP will let you get. I think either is able to win, but list 1 is easier to play,,,so there is that.

Good luck! And good hunting!

Spoletta wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Has anyone mathammered HC’ s tentaclids versus Harpy’s two Venom Cannon? My gut feeling is the more conventional heavy firepower looks more useful than the electrocritter gimmick


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Out of interest, if you use GSC and bring an IG detachment, are you allowed to use an IG character as your warlord?

As of yet there is no requirement that your Warlord have your army’s Faction, but I wouldn’t expect that to last beyond a couple of FAQ revisions

Against T7 3+ or T8 3+ 4 tentaclids inflict 1,5 wounds while 2 heavy venom cannons inflict 2,6. Against a T7 3+ with hard to hit they both inflict 1,7 damage. Against a flying tank with T7 or T8 tentaclids inflict 2,6 wounds. The drool cannon adds 0,6 wounds to all those targets.

In the end the harpy wins by 0,5 wounds against non flying targets. Chrone wins by 0,6 against Hemlocks and similar targets and by 0,5 wounds against fire prism like targets.

Actually a Crone's Tentaclids deal 1.73 wounds, while the HVC of the Harpy do 1.78 wounds. And you should also factor in the bomb drop of the Harpy

If you include everything - even the CC attacks - the results are the following:

Hard to hit Flyer with T6 3+:

Hive Crone: 4.47 wounds
Harpy: 4.17 wounds

Hard to hit Flyer with T7 3+:

Hive Crone: 3.87 wounds
Harpy: 3.2 wounds

So the Crone is slightly better against hard to hit targets, but not by much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And btw the Tyrannofex with Acid Spray is very good against flyers, even if he is walking:

2D6 Spray

hard to hit, T6 3+:
4.67 wounds

hard to hit, T7 3+:
3.5 wounds

4D6 Spray obviously double the amount. And the Stinger Salvo is not factored in yet. However, the T-Fex has a degrading S value on the Spray, so it will get worse.