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 Dynas wrote:
You can sneak at extra 6" out of that with the nodes, move 8, advance highest of 3d6 a good chance at a 6, charge 2d6; that's a potential 32 (6+8+6+12)" move; add another 14" if you take Swarmlord. And as mentioned do it all over again for 4 cp. 32+14+14=60" movement. (or say you roll 4 on advances, and 7 on charge) that's still 25" average(6+8+4+7), 37" (8+4 if you use the 4 CP stratagem), or 49" if you use swarmy to get another move and advance. You are easily going board edge to board edge, even if its long deployment.

I am curious about other peoples first game experiences with the various hive fleets and how they went.

Sadly, nodes are end of movement phase, so you're giving up 2+d6 of movement to avoid being on the board at the start. But if you have Swarmlord, I think it's a free way to avoid getting alpha struck.

 Xenomancers wrote:
The only reason nodes are good is they put genestealers in reserve so you can deep strike them onto a lurker for only the 40 points or whatever the lurker costs.

45 and it's called Lictor, but that's not the intended use for the nodes.

They are there to counter charge with stealers, for example when you have a greentide coming at you. Instead of trying to outcharge a greentide, you put a line of termagants 11" in front of you nodes. After the termagants absorb the assault, the stealers spawn and take out the boyz.

I know that everyone here is convinced that the only list existing is a generic AM army which will shoot you from the other side of the table while protecting itself with chaff units, but actually one 30% or so of the lists out there look vaguely like that. There will be many times where we are the ones getting assaulted. Maybe not at the top talbes (for now).

 D6Damager wrote:

 Byte wrote:

Cauthon wrote:
Am I reading this right? Tyrants and carnifex' can have two different bio cannons?

Says you can change one or both their kit with items from the bio cannons list and on the page that lists the bio cannons it just says you can't have multiples of the same one, so...yes?

Is that new?

This isnt a new option. Been a thing.

But now it's more potent thanks to the updates on the venom cannon/barbed strangler weapon profiles, costs, and strategem.

Before you could not take more than one cannon (so stranglethorn OR heavy venom).
Now its "A model can not be armed with more than one of these weapons."

In my opinion its the same as the previous formulation, because I read it like "... one of these (both) weapons."
At best you could argue if the weapon type (cannon) or the weapon itself is meant. For me its not that clear.

And I had a 1500 points match against Orks today. Matched Play, Maelstrom of war, Cleanse and Capture.
Neither me nor my opponent went competitive. I took Kraken with lot of Warriors, some Hormagaunts and neurothropes for HQ and support. He took Green Tide with little fire support.
I stopped his rush with my 10 man squads of hormagaunts, then countercharged with massive amounts of warriors (deathspitter, scything talons). Kraken gave me 'Hit and Run' and I fell back, shot and charged most of the time while some poor gribbles had to eat the overwatch.
It was a slaughter, and he called it turn 3.

The retreat and come back into melee is very interesting, if you have units which can do both. The mobility is really amazing for objective games!

Next i will try out Carnifexes with full of half range loadout, to run forward, shoot and then jump into melee. Repeat until enemy dead.
Not the best tactics maybe, but i think Kraken is my favorite playstyle. I will test some more competitive lists next.

Edit:

Spoletta wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The only reason nodes are good is they put genestealers in reserve so you can deep strike them onto a lurker for only the 40 points or whatever the lurker costs.

45 and it's called Lictor, but that's not the intended use for the nodes.

They are there to counter charge with stealers, for example when you have a greentide coming at you. Instead of trying to outcharge a greentide, you put a line of termagants 11" in front of you nodes. After the termagants absorb the assault, the stealers spawn and take out the boyz.

I know that everyone here is convinced that the only list existing is a generic AM army which will shoot you from the other side of the table while protecting itself with chaff units, but actually one 30% or so of the lists out there look vaguely like that. There will be many times where we are the ones getting assaulted. Maybe not at the top talbes (for now).

Funny. As described i did something similar, but with warriors, because of the shooting and the ability to split the range fire and melee on different units.

Going to try this Leviathan Brigade:

3 Flyrants, Gun and RC, full upgrades
3 Dakkafex w/Spore Cysts
5 (x3)Warriors (Boneswords, Spitters, Hooks)
1 (x30) Devilgants (obligatory?)
2 Lictor
1 (x3) Pyrovore
1 (x3) Raveners w/Spitters
2 (x3) Sky Swarms

No big guns, but I know from playing Tau that lots of S5+ can handle big stuff. Should do well at clearing out support and melee infantry fast.

xmbk wrote:
Going to try this Leviathan Brigade:

3 Flyrants, Gun and RC, full upgrades
3 Dakkafex w/Spore Cysts
5 (x3)Warriors (Boneswords, Spitters, Hooks)
1 (x30) Devilgants (obligatory?)
2 Lictor
1 (x3) Pyrovore
1 (x3) Raveners w/Spitters
2 (x3) Sky Swarms

No big guns, but I know from playing Tau that lots of S5+ can handle big stuff. Should do well at clearing out support and melee infantry fast.

Do you mean Sky Slasher Swarms? They are not longer part of the Codex.
Or do you take the index entry?

Any word of if we have to pay points for mines spawned by Biovores, Sporecysts or the Mine Stratagem?

Spoletta wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
The only reason nodes are good is they put genestealers in reserve so you can deep strike them onto a lurker for only the 40 points or whatever the lurker costs.

45 and it's called Lictor, but that's not the intended use for the nodes.

They are there to counter charge with stealers, for example when you have a greentide coming at you. Instead of trying to outcharge a greentide, you put a line of termagants 11" in front of you nodes. After the termagants absorb the assault, the stealers spawn and take out the boyz.

I know that everyone here is convinced that the only list existing is a generic AM army which will shoot you from the other side of the table while protecting itself with chaff units, but actually one 30% or so of the lists out there look vaguely like that. There will be many times where we are the ones getting assaulted. Maybe not at the top talbes (for now).

You could do something like that I suppose. It's a free rule that gives versatility BUT - I am pretty much always going to be alpha striking with genes.

Termagants or Ripper Swarms for bubblewrap? If Termagants, all Fleshborer or a 1:2 mix of Devourer:Fleshborer?

Razerous wrote:
Any word of if we have to pay points for mines spawned by Biovores, Sporecysts or the Mine Stratagem?

It's very clear. You don't pay for biovores or Sporecysts, but you pay for the stratagem.

Razerous wrote:
Any word of if we have to pay points for mines spawned by Biovores, Sporecysts or the Mine Stratagem?

The codex says you do not need to pay for mines spawned by units. It does not mention strategems. So biovore and sporecyst mines are free but the ones for the 3CP strategem are not. Which is a shame because now the strategem is useless for battleforged play.

Yes, Sky Slashers from the index.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Termagants or Ripper Swarms for bubblewrap? If Termagants, all Fleshborer or a 1:2 mix of Devourer:Fleshborer?

Depends on what you want to screen your units from.
I tend to termagants, because they can be spread out wide and screen more stuff better than rippers.
In addition they dont crumble that fast if shot with high dmg weapons. The screen will suffer less from shooting with termagants, while the enemy will waste multidmg shots entirely on them.

 vipoid wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
With all those Warriors Leviathan looks like a good choice

Okay, that's fine.

Any suggestions regarding Warlord Traits and Relics? I was thinking that the Neurothrope would make the best Warlord (simple because it's likely to be the furthest from the action).

pinecone77 wrote:
If you have a bunch of Guard, you might run GSC+ Nids with only a few new models, and GSC can run GSC+Nids+Guard.

Yeah, I might give that a go sometime. Especially since, a while back now, I got fed up with my potato-faced guardsmen and started giving some of them genestealer heads.

pinecone77 wrote:
Good luck! And good hunting!

Thanks.

Does the list look okay though? I mean, I haven't played nids since 5th so I'm a little behind on list building and general tactics for their stuff.

I'm guessing that this list is "all the models" It'll do for casual...Moar Stealers! is almost always a way to buff a list.

I say give it a play or two, then decide about what to add...you could go to 2000 just by adding in some GSC Leman Russ, and Autogun/Lasgun infantry( corrupted PDF), as long as you can put a Magus, or Primus or the like in for HQ.

Out of interest, if you use GSC and bring an IG detachment, are you allowed to use an IG character as your warlord?

Has anyone mathammered HC’ s tentaclids versus Harpy’s two Venom Cannon? My gut feeling is the more conventional heavy firepower looks more useful than the electrocritter gimmick


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Out of interest, if you use GSC and bring an IG detachment, are you allowed to use an IG character as your warlord?

As of yet there is no requirement that your Warlord have your army’s Faction, but I wouldn’t expect that to last beyond a couple of FAQ revisions

SO I just thought of a funny way to kill Guilliman/montarion/other big Nastys.

Send Termigants into melee which are supported with Tervigon, when they get slaughtered in fight phase use Caustaic Blood stratagem to deal mortal wounds. Then have Tervigon respawn upto 10 dead gaunts. Then use Kraken to breakoff, shoot again (thinging a 10/20 or 15/15 split of fleshborer/devil), then charge back into combat with the big nasty. You get to fight first. When he fights back, rinse and repeat.

Let Rowboat bathe in our acidic blood until he melts in agony. LOL

Kraken does not allow the unit to shoot after falling back. It only allows it to charge. This is why a flyrant is extra good with kraken, thanks to the fly keyword.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Has anyone mathammered HC’ s tentaclids versus Harpy’s two Venom Cannon? My gut feeling is the more conventional heavy firepower looks more useful than the electrocritter gimmick


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Out of interest, if you use GSC and bring an IG detachment, are you allowed to use an IG character as your warlord?

As of yet there is no requirement that your Warlord have your army’s Faction, but I wouldn’t expect that to last beyond a couple of FAQ revisions

Against T7 3+ or T8 3+ 4 tentaclids inflict 1,5 wounds while 2 heavy venom cannons inflict 2,6. Against a T7 3+ with hard to hit they both inflict 1,7 damage. Against a flying tank with T7 or T8 tentaclids inflict 2,6 wounds. The drool cannon adds 0,6 wounds to all those targets.

In the end the harpy wins by 0,5 wounds against non flying targets. Chrone wins by 0,6 against Hemlocks and similar targets and by 0,5 wounds against fire prism like targets.

 Dynas wrote:
SO I just thought of a funny way to kill Guilliman/montarion/other big Nastys.

Send Termigants into melee which are supported with Tervigon, when they get slaughtered in fight phase use Caustaic Blood stratagem to deal mortal wounds. Then have Tervigon respawn upto 10 dead gaunts. Then use Kraken to breakoff, shoot again (thinging a 10/20 or 15/15 split of fleshborer/devil), then charge back into combat with the big nasty. You get to fight first. When he fights back, rinse and repeat.

Let Rowboat bathe in our acidic blood until he melts in agony. LOL

Besides the above reason, this is never going to work still for many reasons

Bobby can fall back and shoot at something else.

The tervigon is going to be dead before it gets there to do anything nasty with the amount of firepower bobby/morty can bring (and chances are magnus will have a fire raptor)

Magnus and morty can both fly, so again they don't care and they move far faster.

Magnus can 1 turn charge and kill your Tervigon.

The respawn don't be good as you don't get devilgaunts, only up to 10 normal ones.

Its a good strat vs other melee infantry, but vs lord of wars its useless

The better strat is to take a Kronos detachment to shut down warp time, have lots of bodies, and smite/scream the suckers to death.

 Zimko wrote:
Kraken does not allow the unit to shoot after falling back. It only allows it to charge. This is why a flyrant is extra good with kraken, thanks to the fly keyword.

You fall back in movement phase. Then shooting phase, then charge and fight.

The way its worded is to point out that you can still charge even though you fellback, b/c normally you can't.

Pretty sure you can fall back, shoot your guns, charge back in.

 Dynas wrote:

 Zimko wrote:
Kraken does not allow the unit to shoot after falling back. It only allows it to charge. This is why a flyrant is extra good with kraken, thanks to the fly keyword.

You fall back in movement phase. Then shooting phase, then charge and fight.

The way its worded is to point out that you can still charge even though you fellback, b/c normally you can't.

Pretty sure you can fall back, shoot your guns, charge back in.

Nope. The fallback rules say that the unit can not shoot or charge the turn that they fallback. The kraken rule allows you to charge but it does not say anything about shooting. The fly keyword allows units to shoot after falling back but it does not allow them to charge. A kraken flyrant gives you the best of both. Devgaunts would only be able to charge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are many rules that allow units to shoot after falling back. Space Marines for example can do so with a -1 to hit penalty.

str00dles1 wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
SO I just thought of a funny way to kill Guilliman/montarion/other big Nastys.

Send Termigants into melee which are supported with Tervigon, when they get slaughtered in fight phase use Caustaic Blood stratagem to deal mortal wounds. Then have Tervigon respawn upto 10 dead gaunts. Then use Kraken to breakoff, shoot again (thinging a 10/20 or 15/15 split of fleshborer/devil), then charge back into combat with the big nasty. You get to fight first. When he fights back, rinse and repeat.

Let Rowboat bathe in our acidic blood until he melts in agony. LOL

Besides the above reason, this is never going to work still for many reasons

Bobby can fall back and shoot at something else.

The tervigon is going to be dead before it gets there to do anything nasty with the amount of firepower bobby/morty can bring (and chances are magnus will have a fire raptor)

Magnus and morty can both fly, so again they don't care and they move far faster.

Magnus can 1 turn charge and kill your Tervigon.

The respawn don't be good as you don't get devilgaunts, only up to 10 normal ones.

Its a good strat vs other melee infantry, but vs lord of wars its useless

Perhaps, their are WL/RElics that can make the Tervigon more viable. If you have other big baddies on the table they may shoot those instead. HT, swarmy, etc...

I know you can only respawn the fleshborers, that is why you go 10/20 or 15/15 mix in the unit. Take away the Fleshborer ones only.

I'm thinking a nice gem for Kraken is throwing chameleon on a tervigon supporting a bunch of gants. With the likely venomthropes or malanthropes nearby things that normally chew it to bits are hitting at -2. Could breathe life into an otherwise overpriced HQ.

It's going to be grand the first time I play againt my eldar pal. He tried to quicken and I tell he he has to take it on 1 dice. ROFL!!! Kronos FTW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StarHunter25 wrote:
I'm thinking a nice gem for Kraken is throwing chameleon on a tervigon supporting a bunch of gants. With the likely venomthropes or malanthropes nearby things that normally chew it to bits are hitting at -2. Could breathe life into an otherwise overpriced HQ.

Tervigone is just straight trash. I'm pretty upset about this unit. I have 2 of them and they are freaking useless - and there is no way I can convert them into tyranofex - I would stab myself at somepoint i am sure - too many spikes.

I have to ask. The Neuronthrope. Is it an amzing bargain? I know it knows only 1 power, but can manifest 2.

It has 3++. It is a character under 9 wounds. It re-roll 1's. It provides synapse and shadow in the warp. It heal itself.

And that is even without zoanthropes.

Compare that to the GSC Magus. Wow.

 Niiai wrote:
I have to ask. The Neuronthrope. Is it an amzing bargain? I know it knows only 1 power, but can manifest 2.

It has 3++. It is a character under 9 wounds. It re-roll 1's. It provides synapse and shadow in the warp. It heal itself.

And that is even without zoanthropes.

Compare that to the GSC Magus. Wow.

The best screen for Neuronthropes? Free Spore Mines.

Neurothropes look like our go to psykers. Brood lords are nice. Especially if your running genestealers. But if you just want to pile in a bunch of smite spam on a durable platform neurothropes might be the best platform for their points in the game.

Talk to me about Zoanthropes people. What success have you been having with them? I'm thinking about a unit of 4 with a nuerothrope as HQ in their detachment. I'm thinking that the zoans are going to soak a lot of firepower. Probably better to have them get shot at than any other unit. They have 3++ saves. The first time you use their smite and do 2d3 mortals I think you will have their attention.

 Lance845 wrote:
Neurothropes look like our go to psykers. Brood lords are nice. Especially if your running genestealers. But if you just want to pile in a bunch of smite spam on a durable platform neurothropes might be the best platform for their points in the game.

They are still 70 points for a single smite a turn. It is a great and versatile unit, but for pure smite-spam 30 point malefic lords still reigns supreme. At least until they get nerfed in chapter approved.