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Am I understanding this right. If I take my warlord and make it have the Relic Norn Queen, it has a 30" Radius for Synapse? That's the whole table except the very edges. You could effectively not have to worry about synapse at all, just take the one warlord and then not worry about taking warriors, primes, etc...

 Marmatag wrote:

Dynas wrote:
Am I understanding this right. If I take my warlord and make it have the Relic Norn Queen, it has a 30" Radius for Synapse? That's the whole table except the very edges. You could effectively not have to worry about synapse at all, just take the one warlord and then not worry about taking warriors, primes, etc...

Well i mean if your warlord dies you have to worry about synapse.

Do you have something in mind that's 9 or less wounds for your warlord? And is that worth it?

Malanthrope. Just thinking at loud.

Is anyone else seeing the value in Kraken. 3d6 advance. ON genestealers, brood lord, hormagaunts, already base 8" plus 3d6 +2d6 charge, thats a lot of range. Hormies can consolidate 6". You don't even need trygon tunnels. use those for your devil gaunts to shoot in the flanks.

Furthermore, you can fallback and RECHARGE the same turn, which means if your locked in combat, you can breakoff recharge and attack first.

Am i missing something.

WIth the Kraken Fall back and Charge again, would taking devourers & Talons on things like Warriors, Raveners, Carnifex, HT be good. Say your locked in combat from a previous round, you can fall back 1" shoot your guns into the enemy. Then recharge and get to attack first once again.

Your getting the Devourer Assault 3 shots rather than just one extra attack for the extra pair of scything talons.

Also, I see Leviathan as basically army wide Feel No pain. yeah you have to be withing 6" of Synapse, but honestly when are you not. It says that the UNIT has to be within 6", then any wound taken can be saved. So even if you have a long line of say genestealers or hormies as long as any model in the unit is within 6" of a Synapse unit then any model gets the save. So if one of the models at the end of the lie is say 12" away from the actual model that gives synapse, his buddy that is closer passes it down the chain.

Friendly way...

Perhaps, have the player declare all the various psykic powers they will use. So, when they mention they want to cast guide, ask them if they want to cast any others b/c you have a strategem you want to use to effect one.

OR the competitive RAW way

"2. Make Psychic Test
A psyker can attempt to manifest a
psychic power they know by taking a
Psychic test. To do so, roll 2D6. If the
total is equal to or greater than that
power’s warp charge value, the power is
successfully manifested. A psyker cannot
attempt to manifest the same psychic
power more than once in a turn."

The attempt stats the roll the way I see it.
Note, you can still get your deny the witch test, which should be much easier to stop.
Also, it looks like if you do this there is no way for enemy to suffer perils of the warp.

This probably needs to be FAQ, like we get to pick the lesser die after the roll or something.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/02/codex-tyranids-preview-stratagems/

I am liking that Causatic Blood stratagem. Suicide a cheap unit of hormies into a high value target. Let them get slaughtered. Deal out a bunch of wounds.
Get out of Synapse range and fail morale test to get even more mortal wounds.

I kinda like the Black yellow but not a fan of the others. Kronus looks a lot like Kraken to me.

@ shogun, you have no synapse for your biovores.

shogun wrote:

shogun wrote:
.....
HQ: Neurothrope (babysitting biovores)
.......

Dynas wrote: @ shogun, you have no synapse for your biovores.

ehhh yes I do..

But the Neurothrope is a different hive fleet, I didn't think synapse was universal. I think the synapse only provides to like minded hive fleets, maybe I am wrong. But, not having synapse for the Biovores isn't a bad thing, you get -2 to hit if you move and can spam spore mines.

Thoughts on taking this Brigade just for CP spam. Comes out 753 points, leaves you with 1250 ish for whatever you want. Just trying to make the cheapest list possible. Getting 9+3+X CP. Massive -1 for malanthrope, hold rippers underground to tunnel objectives. Spore mines for DS denial, Biovores are always solid choice. Lictor to DS/Disrupt enemy backline. Thoughts on this? What would we fill out with the remaining 1250?

HQ
Malanthrope -90
Malanthrope -90
Malanthrope -90

Troops
Ripper Swarm x3 - 33
Ripper Swarm x3 - 33
Ripper Swarm x3 - 33
Ripper Swarm x3 - 33
Ripper Swarm x3 - 33
Ripper Swarm x3 - 33

Fast Attack
Spore Mine x3 -30
Spore Mine x3 -30
Spore Mine x3 -30

Elites
Lictor-41
Lictor-41
Lictor-41

Heavy Support
Biovore -24
Biovore -24
Biovore -24

 jifel wrote:

Rivener wrote:
Am I crazy or is Implant Attack REALLY awesome? If you wound a model but fail to slay it, you roll a die and on a 2+ that model suffers a MW. Who needs AP when you can just MW any non-vehicles that makes a save, Armor or otherwise??

Well, you don't successfully wound them unless they fail a save. But even then, it is only one mortal wound. So if a unit does 3 wounds to magnus in CC, you will do one more on a 2+. Unless you attack multiple multi-wound units you will never deal more than a single wound.

This. I looks good on paper, but the way multiwound model wound allocation works, your likely never to get more than 1 extra mortal wound unless you get some wierd multi unit With multiple wounds lock into combat. Perhaps if flanking genestealers were able to lock in a IG Tank gun line or a group of razorbacks, its possible but unlikely.

*Edit*- Added Thematic Overall notes.

Not sure if this has been consolidated anywhere, but I got tired of flipping back and forth and scanning multiple threads. This is a combine HIVE FLEET Warlord Traits, Adaptation, and Strategems. This doesn't include the Generics, but hopefully is easier to see/read and give you a better idea of the flavor of each of the fleets.

WL Warlord Traits (Warlord Only)
HFA Hive Fleet adapations (apply to everything)
STRAT Stratagems (cost CP)
RELIC Relics

KRAKEN - Theme is Fast Advance and Maneuver, fastest Fleet
HFA Kraken: When a unit with this adaptation Advances, roll three dice instead of one and pick the highest to add to the Move characteristic of all models in the unit for that Movement phase. In addition, such units can Fall Back and charge in the same turn.
WL Kraken: 1 friendly kraken unit within 6 of wlt, can fight first in fight phase even without charging
STRAT 1cp Opportunistic Advance- Use in the Movement Phase. Choose a Kraken unit that does not have the Fly keyword. When Advancing you can double number you roll when determining how much to add to the unit's Movement characteristic.
RELIC Chameleonic Mutations (Kraken): -1 to hit from shooting attacks

GORGON - Theme is great on WOUNDING in Fight Phase
HFA Gorgon: You can re-roll wound rolls of 1 in the Fight phase for units with this adaptation
WL Gorgon: end of fight phase. roll d6 for every enemy within 1" of warlord. on 4+, that unit suffer a MW.
STRAT 1cp Hypertoxicity (Gorgon)- fight phase. choose gorgon wiht toxin sac, the biomorph do 1 additional dmg on wounds roll of 5+ instead of 6
RELIC Hyperadaptive Biology (Gorgon): From the end of the first phase in which this model suffers any wounds, add 1 to its Toughness for the remainder of the battle

JORMUNGANDR - Theme is Deepstriking/Tunnels, Cover bonus/ignoring enemy cover
HFA Jormungandr: A unit with this adaptation (other than units that can fly) always has the benefit of cover for the purpose of shooting attacks. If the unit advances or charges, however, it loses the benefits of this adaptation until the start of your movement phase.
WL Jormungandr: Enemy unit dont gain bonus to saving throw for being in cover by attacks from wl, or friendly Jormungandr units within 3 of wl.
STRAT 1cp the enemy below (Jormungandr) -use strat when jor inf set up, put it undergorund. whenever you set up raveners mawloc trygon or trygon prime. any no of its unit can be set up within the tunnels, 3 inch from burrowing unit ,9 inch away enemy.
RELIC Infrasonic Roar (Jorgmungandr) : Monster only. Enemy unit within 6 inch of this model must subtract 1 from LD.

HYDRA - Theme is Swarm Tactics, to HIT's in Fight Phase, Regeneration
HFA Hydra: You can re-roll hit rolls in the Fight phase for units with this adaptation that target units containing fewer models than their own
WL Hydra: Beginning of each of your turn, roll a dice for each wound WL suffered, on a 6, heal.
STRAT 2cp Endless Swarm -(Hydra) Select a destroyed unit of gants, horms, garg or any hydra inf unit that has been completely destroyted. Add an identical unit to your army and set it up as reinforcement wholly 6inch of any board edge , more than 9 inch from enemy
RELIC Slimer Maggot Infestatation (Hydra): Replaces pair of slimer deathspitters. Re-rolls failed wounds

KRONUS - Theme is Pysker/Anti Pysker and Shooting Buffs
HFA Kronos: You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for units with this adaptation in your Shooting phase if they did not move in the preceding Movement phase
WL Kronos: Enemy psyker fail a psychic test within 18 of your wl, they suffer D3 MW
STRAT 1cp Against Shadow (Kronos)- enemy psyker attempts to cast a spell within 24 inch of kronos unit. that psyker can only use 1 dice for his psyk test.
RELIC Balethorn Cannon (Kronos): Replaces Stranglethorn. Ignores invuln saves

LEVIATHAN - Theme is army Feel no Pain and Lots of Universal Rerolls
HFA Leviathan: Roll a D6 each time a unit with the adaptation loses a wound whilst it is within 6" of a friendly Synapse unit from the same hive fleet. On a 6, the damage is ignored and the unit does not lose a wound. Ignore this adaptation on a unit that is currently affected by the Catalyst psychic power.
WL Leviathan : 1 per battle round. you can reroll a single hit/wound/dmg /advance charge or saving throw for the wl.
STRAT 1cp war on all fronts (leviathan)-fight phase. select enemy within 1inch of 1 flying and 1 nonflying leviathan unit. can reroll hits & wound rolls of 1 for levi attacks against the enemy unit
RELIC Slayer Sabres (Leviathan): Replaces monstrous boneswords. If against infantry or biker model suffers dmg from this weapon but not slain at end of fight phase, roll d3. if result is greater than wounds remaining on the model, the model is slain. 

BEHEMOTH - Theme is Devastating CHARGES and bonus attacks in the Fight Phase
HFA Behemoth: You can re-roll failed charge rolls for units with this adaptation
WL Behemoth: WOund roll of 6 in fight phase. that attack +1 dmg
STRAT 1cp brute force (behemoth)-use when benemoth unit complete charge . roll d6 for each behemoth charging model within 1inch of enemy. each roll of 6, 1 MW on enemy unit. 2+ for a behemoth monster charging; (30 man gant charge in, roll d6 for all, on a 6 chuck a mw)
RELIC Scythes of Tyran (Behemoth): Replaces massive scything talons. Adds +1S and generates extra attack on to hit of 6+

1cp Hypertoxicity (Gorgon)- fight phase. choose gorgon wiht toxin sac, the biomorph do 1 additional dmg on wounds roll of 5+ instead of 6

If you put this on Genestealers with Rending claws does this change the Rending to 5+ to get the -4 AP bonus on 5+ instead of just 6+? I am thinking no, but unsure.

 buddha wrote:

 Dynas wrote:


Thanks Dynas. You're doing the Lord's (Hive Mind's?) Work.

Must FEEEEEEED
lol

Resipsa131 wrote:
I wonder how Gorgon Hormagaunts units that have the hungering swarm ability will be treated? Most likely they won't stack and allow you more than simply rerolls of 1s to wound.

However it would be cool if they got the Cadian regimental doctrine that stacks with Taking Aim Order that allows rerolls of all misses.

I doubt it would stack. And you can never reroll a reroll. The benefit is, when the unit drops below 20 models, you can still get the rerolls of 1's.

NackaNid wrote:
First of: Thank you everybody for the effort and devotion you guys have for 40k, amazing! Keep up the good work!

4. Swarmlord and Flyrant is back and is more resilient than ever. The thing is that for 300 points, the Swarmlord is not worth the points. I always took him for the Hive commander but now with the adaptations I feel that Genestealers and other units is so fast that this doesn't have the impact it did. The Hive Tyrant is 105 points cheaper and with a lot more options. And because carnifexes is both cheap and very good, OOE is a really good HQ-option.

Hmm.

Maybe i've got the math wrong, but it seems a HT or Flyrant with Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, and the Relic that gives the random +1Atk, Str, or Toughness in fight phase seems to be the same as the SL, but cheaper. Or leviathan take the Slayer Sabre relic. Also the Gorgon Toughness bump might be good.


217 HT with 2x Boneswords and TS, & Relic = 143+4+35+35
244 Flyrant with 2x Boneswords and TS and Relic = 170+4+35+35

@ Traceoftoxin, how does that help fix the Deepstrike issue?

Ok i am playing with this, taking an HQ detacahment of like 3 Nueronthropes and making them Kronus and just spread them out to put on the Kronus SitW Debuff.

Or
Patrol
Flyrnat with the Balethron cannon make him the warlord
3x Rippers

Spread the rippers out and you can easily cover the board with the 24" bubbles and shut down enemy pyskic phase.

I like the later better for the gun and Warlord traits and strategems. Plus its only 250 points, You can still get a Brigade with whatever other fleet you want.

This can easily make Eldar, Grey Knights, Tzeetch, Smite Spam list crumble for such cheap points.

NackaNid wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

NackaNid wrote:
First of: Thank you everybody for the effort and devotion you guys have for 40k, amazing! Keep up the good work!

4. Swarmlord and Flyrant is back and is more resilient than ever. The thing is that for 300 points, the Swarmlord is not worth the points. I always took him for the Hive commander but now with the adaptations I feel that Genestealers and other units is so fast that this doesn't have the impact it did. The Hive Tyrant is 105 points cheaper and with a lot more options. And because carnifexes is both cheap and very good, OOE is a really good HQ-option.

Hmm.

Maybe i've got the math wrong, but it seems a HT or Flyrant with Boneswords, Toxin Sacs, and the Relic that gives the random +1Atk, Str, or Toughness in fight phase seems to be the same as the SL, but cheaper. Or leviathan take the Slayer Sabre relic. Also the Gorgon Toughness bump might be good.


217 HT with 2x Boneswords and TS, & Relic = 143+4+35+35
244 Flyrant with 2x Boneswords and TS and Relic = 170+4+35+35

Haha, sorry! I always use 2x MST and AG with the flyrant. Thats were the 195pts comes from.

Good points!

I am not saying your points are wrong, i was questioning mine lol. Just trying to see if the 3++ invul in CC and SL power to have a unit move is worth 60-80 points. Plus with the HT with Boneswords, you can pick any Warlord trait you want. I might be missing something, but I will definitely look into this when the codex drops. I personally don't think the extra +1 invul and the power is worth the extra points. Especially since there are all kinds of traits to buff your units now.

 Marmatag wrote:
but also I still get back to this. The Swarmlord really allows us to control the field on that critical first turn. double move + advance & charge = solid, especially if you're reliably advancing 5-6", and you can double the advance for a CP.

So hormagants moving a total of 30" pre-charge, with Swarmy psychic buffing and giving them an extra move. With a 6" pile in and a reliable 5" charge, that's over 40" of possible threat turn 1. An amazing tarpit.


I know i'm a broken record when it comes to defending hormagants but I like them. Kraken seems like the best hive fleet for them. Behemot would be nice, because you get reliable charges. But I have never been a fan of deep strike charges, even with rerolls they're super unreliable.

Yup do this and suicide charge into the heavy gunline, razorbacks, w/e and lockem them up.
Take Hydra, after they die, just respawn them on board edge, and recharge. Basically have an endless tarpit unit with a 30-40" threat range.

The nodes have good uses. You get 4. so you can use them in the following ways:

Place them on objectives in your Deployment zone to keep enemy warry of trying to cap an objective (especially good if they have a card for that objective). Makes them decide if getting the objective is worth potentially losing unit.

Place one way in the back or in safe area hard to reach to ensure you can get the Genestealers on the board without having to worry about them getting shot turn 1.

Place them on/near the board edges to guard against potential outflanking units.

You can place them in a more aggressive way in hope of luring the enemy out of position so he can try and "cap/eliminate" them.

Place them all to cover one another 9.5" apart, so if enemy gets close enough to take out one, then the other node allows them to cover/bait the other units.

Can place them on the edge of your deployment zone, especially against defensive armies like Tau, IG, Gunlines and then deploy to get an extra 6" of movement.

Thats all i can think of at the moment.

Resipsa131 wrote:
Regarding free reinforcements. It looks as if Tervigons are unchanged from the index. I kind of thought they'd get a 20-30 point price decrease. I love the model, its my favorite in the WH40K universe but 250points for a baby maker is quite expensive.

How would you run a Tervigon based army as Gorgon and take the relic that grants +1T after the first phase its has suffered a wound?

Better off taking Jormagandr, or Leviathan, give the cover save bonus or FNP.

 luke1705 wrote:
That’s what I figured. Debating whether I can fit a pod in or if I want to have a separate Jormungdr Detachment....giving up that Kraken trait is too juicy I think. But man those pods are expensive! Almost worth just grabbing a Trygon instead....hmmm

Pods can only take 20 gants as well. Pods are best for MC, trygon is better for hordes.

Pathogenic Slime: 2 CP, add 1 to the damage of a Tyranid Monster in your army during the shooting phase.

So throw this down on a Dakkafex of Dakka Flyrant or Exocrine and you are gonna shred big baddies like IK, Guilliman, Montarion.

Anyone able to do the mathhammer on that?


Edit: Ok, what am i missing on this loadout.

Take a Hive Tyrant or Flyrant, can swap out the the Sycthing talons for Monstrous boneswords, do this for both sets, so you got 4 Monsterous boneswords. Take Toxin sacs +1 dmg on 6's, take behemoth warlord trait of monsterous hunger, another +1 dmg. N
Now take this relice The Reaper of Obliterax: replaces a model’s Bonesword or Monstrous Bonesword in a pair with a Lashwhip. On a wound roll of a 6+, the weapon inflicts double damage.

This is a potential for 8 damage on a roll of 6. Does this only apply to a single sword, or would this be all the boneswords since they are the same weapon, ie that would be a potential 32 damage? The way its written it appears to be only a single sword, if thats the case, would you just take a gun instead.

 luke1705 wrote:


In fact, I wonder if a double brigade list could work? Hmmm....21 CP sounds DELICIOUS!

I was able to get a 3 battalions and a spearhead, 1 battalion is Kronos, everything else is behemoth. 13 CP. Plus if i get my Genestealers (2x units of 16) or broodlord to kill a character you can use the feeder tendrils stratagem for a chance to net 2 more CP.

With the Kronus, I spread those guys out and basically shut down Pysker phase, spam pyskic scream until they lose all their good spells. And I spammed Termigants to get the rerolls on 1's

The behemoth has genestealers, hormies, 3x trygon, a nasty Flyrant, all DS in. All melee, all reroll charges.

Ripper fill cheap troop slots. BL to buff genestealers, 2 Malanthropes for bubbles.


I highly doubt we can just pay the CP points only to bring the extra units without having to pay the points, pretty sure it will make us hold as reinforcements.

Kraken could work well with the charges as well, especially if you have units with melee and guns. Or if you want to break off because the enemy locked your genestealers or screamer killers into combat.

Break off and recharge. Which means you get to attack first. If you take guns and melee blend, you can breakoff, shoot, then charge back in for a good wombo combo; especially if you kit them right. Maybe a Carnifex with tusk, spores, Syc Talons and HVC or Devourers.

Say your locked in combat with IG conscripts, you can break off, shoot your HVC at the tanks, then charge back into the Conscripts and attack first again, get the bonus for charging.

If opponent locks you in combat, just break off and go somewhere else, especially usefull if they throw chaff at your genestealers. WIth the advances dice bonus, doubling and rolling 3 take the highest, you can quickly reshift across map.

@Razerous, no they can't as Eihnlazer said, but you can take Swarmlord and get the move that way.

I plan to run a battalion of Kronos with Flyrant and Neurothrope and 3x rippers to get the Pyskic phase shutdown. Give the flyrant the Balethron cannon to ignore invults.

Hive Tyrant with Balethorn Cannon, 2x Deathspitters w/ Slimer Maggots , Pyskic Scream, Catalyst; 153 pts

Give him wing and he is 180

shadowfinder wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
I plan to run a battalion of Kronos with Flyrant and Neurothrope and 3x rippers to get the Pyskic phase shutdown. Give the flyrant the Balethron cannon to ignore invults.

Hive Tyrant with Balethorn Cannon, 2x Deathspitters w/ Slimer Maggots , Pyskic Scream, Catalyst; 153 pts

Give him wing and he is 180

Think about Kronos Biovores. Their spore mines that miss Count as a Kronos unit. You don.t need rippers to cause shut down. Just make the Biovores miss in the area you want.

Yeah this is true, but what if you don't miss. Or what if the mines all blow up. Granted you can move them, and stay out of synapse and force IB to get the -2, but still.


Question, since the Broodlord has the genestealer key word is he able to take advantage of the Genestealer Ingestations Nodes? I would think yes. Thoughts?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
So... From the way i'm reading this, Genestealers infestation places them into Reserves, then on turn one DS a Lictor, pay the 1CP to DS the Genestealers out of reserves instead of using the Infestation Nodes, effectively getting them anyone on the table turn 1.

You can take Behemoth for Re-roll charges at the same time.

Your still looking for a 9 on 2D6, thats a little over average, but with Re-rolls and Command Dice a Large unit or 2 of Genestealers should be able to charge almost anything turn 1.

That is a nice catch. geenstealer delivery just got cheaper. Correct me if I am wrong but can 2 units of geens share a lictor?

Really wouldn't it be an 8 from Deepstrike b/c you only have to be within an inch, not base to base?

Broodlord uses the nodes, Genestealers ride in a trygon tunnel.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
So... From the way i'm reading this, Genestealers infestation places them into Reserves, then on turn one DS a Lictor, pay the 1CP to DS the Genestealers out of reserves instead of using the Infestation Nodes, effectively getting them anyone on the table turn 1.

You can take Behemoth for Re-roll charges at the same time.

Your still looking for a 9 on 2D6, thats a little over average, but with Re-rolls and Command Dice a Large unit or 2 of Genestealers should be able to charge almost anything turn 1.

That is a nice catch. geenstealer delivery just got cheaper. Correct me if I am wrong but can 2 units of geens share a lictor?

Really wouldn't it be an 8 from Deepstrike b/c you only have to be within an inch, not base to base?

Broodlord uses the nodes, Genestealers ride in a trygon tunnel.

You don't deep strike 9" away you deepstrike more than 9" away. 9.001 still requires a 9 to get within 1".

Ah. Well thats what CP and charge rerolls are for.

The only monstrous rending claws are the Broodlords, which are way to small.

You would need to convert by using the legs on the flyrant as rending claws and maybe add some large side toes with scything talons from a warrior or something; or sculpt them.