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Yeah just saw that, was about to link it too lol, sniped me!

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
It won't be changed to match the CSM one. Am has the exact same thing and it was clarified to COST points.

It's infinitely easier to be able to just throw a unit away and let it die, compared to having to keep it alive to use the ability.

You're not forced to use the CPs preventively like Reinforcements points. You're not at a disadvantage for not using Tide of Traitors; meanwhile you're playing with x less points when building around Endless Swarm.
If you can't understand this you are not worthy any tactical annotation

You're not forced to use Endless Swarm, either. Yes, it's bad. However, blame that on matched play rules instead of the Stratagem. I'm sure narrative dudes are going to love it.

We can finally make the hive tyrant our warlord without it dying in a single shooting phase!

Give it the sixth trait and 3 tguards, survive one shooting phase by dumping all wounds on the guards except one (easy with T7 and 4++, especially with a -1).
Now you have -1 damage from all sources, which means that he requires at least 2 more full rounds of shooting to go down (with catalyst), and your opponent will not get that many.
With a 18" synapse, cheaper boneswords and the relic venom cannon my walkrant will become a nightmare.

I'm going to make him the head of my behemoth battalion.

Spoletta wrote:
We can finally make the hive tyrant our warlord without it dying in a single shooting phase!

Give it the sixth trait and 3 tguards, survive one shooting phase by dumping all wounds on the guards except one (easy with T7 and 4++, especially with a -1).
Now you have -1 damage from all sources, which means that he requires at least 2 more full rounds of shooting to go down (with catalyst), and your opponent will not get that many.
With a 18" synapse, cheaper boneswords and the relic venom cannon my walkrant will become a nightmare.

I'm going to make him the head of my behemoth battalion.

Agree. As you can see from my avatar, I am playing a Walkrant for a long time with HVC. It will finally be useful.

I am trying to write down a summary of the strategies from the rumours so far. Thanks to  lordhikaru  at the tyranid hive forum page for this. http://thetyranidhive.proboards.com/thread/53797/codex-rules-preview-updated-summary#ixzz4wzwFcUFn

Synapse is very good for us. 12" fearless. Even being out of the 24" instintive behavior is not so bad. Just attach and charge the closest thing.

The best hivefleets:

Behemot:



Behemot is the best for big melee swarm units. Strategm can be very powerull with an averadge 6 mortal wounds on a group of 30.

Hydra:



Hydra also a good swarm army if you don't have many points to spend on mortal wound stratagem. Outnumbering big units re-rolls to hit in CC. This include genstealers and can be very powerfull. Probably the best army for mass genestealers. The stratagem lets you re-inforce, but under the current rules you need to pay points for that, so it is less exciting.

Leviathan:


Depending on the wording, but it is very good with multiple smaller units Have a lot of different smaller units also gives more command points. Things like the carnifex can split up into several units. HeavyVenom cannon also packs a punch, so that is all good. Perhaps even smaller units of warriors. The stragem will rarly be used IMHO.

Jorumgandr:



Arguably one of the best once. But loosing it when you charge is hamstering genestealers and other mellee based units. But many tyranid lists include som backline long ranged units, that you can place where you want now.

Kraken:
A bit lackluster. Only good if your units are stuck in CC at the begining of your turn and you want to chharge something else. One notisable senario where this is good is if gargoyles have surounded something they can't kill (like a rhino) and now you can fall back with flying and attack what you are really after. Arguebaly a very good relic: 'Kraken relic: -1 to hit from enemy shooting' Keep your HQ alive

Kronos:



Only good for gunlines. competes with others.

Gorgon:



Scything tallons already does this. Although remenisent of 5th edition genestealers where you re-rolled missed once, meaning 'only miss on 2's'. Good for a mixed melle armie with some smaller units of genestealers.

Notisable stratagems:

The enemy below (jormungandr):



This stratgem is very interesting. This one is good. Regular trygons are needed a bit less. Also in competition with the lictor power.

Pheromone trail:



Depending in the wording some of these might need a unit to already be in reserve?

Feeder tendrils:



Gain back command points by eating their brain. If this includes genestealers this is amazing when it becomes rellevant.

Implant attack:



Yes yes yes. Finish of something that ends up on 1 life.

Endless Swarm:



If you have to pay points in addition to command points this one is a bit bad. To bad for hydra.

Call the Brood:


Same problem as above.

Sporefield:


Same as above. But some armies has great movement. This can stop them from moving more then 11 inches right are you. Can supply the biovore /deny movement strategy if they get first turn. Now you can at least contain them at 11 inches.

Digestive Denial:


If this last the entire game. Wow.

Pathogenic slime:


Good for a dakke fex / hive tyrants / tyranofex shooting something.

Single minded annihilation:



Probably the best stratagem, and will be the most used. Good with 30 man gaunt squad out of reserves, a big unit of hiveguards or biovores.

Power of the hive mind:


Flexabilaty. Yes please.

Rapid regen:

[url]-2cp rapid regen
end of mov, heal d3[/url]

There will be games when you want to heal your warlord. Swarmlord for instance. If this can heal tyrant guards back to life and respawn units you can perhaps keep your Swarm Lord slightly safe.

---

Tyranids ranged weapons has always been a limited selection. It looks like that has been better.

Heavy venom canon are now d3 S9 Ap2 3damage

This means carnifexes and hive tyrants get something akin to a lascannon.

Tyranofex rupture cannon is heavy 3, s10 ap-3 d6 damage. Acid spray 18" 2D6 hits. It stil shoots 2x if you do not move. While acid spray is never in range, that would be a 4d6 attack. But 6 lascannon shots of a stationary rupture cannon is good.

Hiveguards, biovores and exochrines joins the above mentioned to actually have ranged options.

Deathspitters supossably droped by a couple of points, meaning it is better on warriors and raveners.

Its been posted on page one already

Page 1 does not include my stratigic insight.

I also would like to include my sources, not all of that was one page 1 when I started writing. Also lordhikaru deserves a big thanks for taking the time to write it up. Always include your sources.

Tyranofex shooting twice seems pretty brutal now. A few Kronos Fex's sitting in the backfield will tear heavy armor apart.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Tyranofex shooting twice seems pretty brutal now. A few Kronos Fex's sitting in the backfield will tear heavy armor apart.

I don't know about that. If it shoots 6 times, you roll an averadge 1. For a total 1 re-roll. Leviathan on the other hand is garanteed 1 re-roll and 1 re-roll to wound. If course if you are fiering the spikes you have more dice but you only care about the lascannon.

I suppose that is how it is worded 'shoot twice' should not be interpeted as activaing leviathan 2 times.

 Niiai wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Tyranofex shooting twice seems pretty brutal now. A few Kronos Fex's sitting in the backfield will tear heavy armor apart.

I don't know about that. If it shoots 6 times, you roll an averadge 1. For a total 1 re-roll. Leviathan on the other hand is garanteed 1 re-roll and 1 re-roll to wound. If course if you are fiering the spikes you have more dice but you only care about the lascannon.

I suppose that is how it is worded 'shoot twice' should not be interpeted as activaing leviathan 2 times.

Depending on how it's worded, if you use the "shoot twice" stratagem it's entirely possible it becomes 12 shots, though. Suddenly rerolling the 1s is an attractive bonus.

Edit: Nevermind I forgot it's infantry only. Carry on.

But the shooting stratgem specifies a non monster, at least one of the rumours said this. If that, it is a no go.

Although I would think you are spot on in a unit of hive guards. 6 hive guards already roll 2 1's. 4's if you use the stratagem. 3 and 6 respectivly if you have a 9 man unit. so there Kronos win out.

On smaller units I think the 2x reroll hit and wound is about the same, or slightly better then re-rolling 1's for shooting.

As stated earlier the stratagem will be good with hive guards, biovores and dakka gaunts. (180 dice gaunts? Oh my. It is almost like playing the exalted role playing game at high levels.) I suppose ravaners or warrior groups also can be good with this.

 Niiai wrote:
Page 1 does not include my stratigic insight.

I also would like to include my sources, not all of that was one page 1 when I started writing. Also lordhikaru deserves a big thanks for taking the time to write it up. Always include your sources.

Lol.. ok, but there was a source, i dont mean to be a dick or anything, just dont like people re-posting the same thing over and over again.

I saw the rules and ignore everything you said, i didnt even realize you added your 0.02c b.c i didnt want to re-read rules, next time make a spoiler of the rules and then have you thoughts out of the spoiler so we can read what your thinking about.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
Page 1 does not include my stratigic insight.

I also would like to include my sources, not all of that was one page 1 when I started writing. Also lordhikaru deserves a big thanks for taking the time to write it up. Always include your sources.

Lol.. ok, but there was a source, i dont mean to be a dick or anything, just dont like people re-posting the same thing over and over again.

I saw the rules and ignore everything you said, i didnt even realize you added your 0.02c b.c i didnt want to re-read rules, next time make a spoiler of the rules and then have you thoughts out of the spoiler so we can read what your thinking about.

Spoiler. Right. That is good. I will eddit that in. :-)

The Kronos ability will be good with Exocrines though. 12 shots on 3+ with a reroll 1 is pretty hard.

Why no love for tervigons and warriors?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Why no love for tervigons and warriors?

I think they have a lot of love. Even if the profiles are not changed they get a huge benefit. Leaviatan is good with tervigon that is horrible in mellee. Jormungals always in cover is good to keep them alive. They never get cover othervice. Kraken might be good with a wall of gaunts. Fall back and heal them back up to 30, shoot what you where fighting in your fight phase, and charge back in to lock them in combat again. Perhaps not the best use of kraken.

3 man units of warriors are very good with Leviathan. Jormunghard also gives 3+ save. Jormunghard stratagem and the lictor deploylment is good with warriors I think. The S5 got cheaper? Perhaps even venom cannon got better?

Edit: After reading spolettas comment below: Wow. Deathspitter 24" range is good. In addition to warriors this can also work very well for ravaner. A ravaner if not changed in points is 31 points - the new discount. 5 attacks mellee, 24" range heavy bolter. That seems good.

If venom cannon is 36", assault d3, S8, AP-2 damage 1. Can help out in the shooting department for taking down big targets. Not sure if the venom cannen is better then deathspitter though.

Warriors did get some love:
Deathspitters got cheaper and the range was extended to 24".
Venom cannon got 1 more AP.
Extended synapse range.


I can see them really well with a spitter and swords, with a prime for 2+ and reroll 1's from tactic.
Also, Gorgon would be really nice. Unit of 9 with venom glands, strategem for venom on 5+ and stratagem to fight again. I've got to math this out, but i think that we are threathening an IK easily.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, no. For some reason i understood that we had a stratagem to fight twice. Without it they take ONLY 13 wounds off a knight,

Spoletta wrote:
Warriors did get some love:
Deathspitters got cheaper and the range was extended to 24".
Venom cannon got 1 more AP.
Extended synapse range.


I can see them really well with a spitter and swords, with a prime for 2+ and reroll 1's from tactic.
Also, Gorgon would be really nice. Unit of 9 with venom glands, strategem for venom on 5+ and stratagem to fight again. I've got to math this out, but i think that we are threathening an IK easily.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, no. For some reason i understood that we had a stratagem to fight twice. Without it they take ONLY 13 wounds off a knight,

24" tange on Deathspitters is awesome, though AFAIK they'd only be hitting on 3+ with Primes. Unless of course they got another point of BS.

Just posted:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/30/tyranid-codex-preview-synapse-instinctive-behaviour-and-the-shadow-in-the-warp-oct-30gw-homepage-post-2/

For starters, Shadow in the Warp now affects all enemy Psykers within 18″ as opposed to 12″, while Synapse works on all friendly units from the same hive fleet within 12″ rather than 8″.

While Synapse coverage is easier to achieve than ever, thanks to this boost in range, Instinctive Behaviour has been changed in order to be less punishing:

Firstly, Instinctive Behaviour only triggers when the unit in question is more than 24″ away from a Synapse unit. This allows you much more flexibility when moving your units, and essentially gives single-model units (like the Trygon) a 24″ Synapse range, as they don’t need to worry about Morale anyway!

Secondly, Instinctive Behaviour doesn’t force you to ONLY shoot or charge the nearest unit; instead, you suffer penalties to your charge rolls and shooting. This means that in the later rounds of the game, when the enemy may have crippled your Synapse coverage, you’ll still be able to maintain a level of control over your army.

What's the faction of the Swarmlord? Trying to decide how to build my newest Tyrant.

I like the way Synapse is moving from a punishment to a bonus and how its far more viable to operate without it. You still want it, but if you get a whole blasted in the army its not going to totally scupper your plans.

I think it should also make armies more hostile; no more camping a synapse unit with the artillery; no more having to always have to push a synapse up for deep strikes.

Of course most Tyranid players are going to keep that strong synapse coverage, but its not longer cripplingly punishing to lose

 Marmatag wrote:
What's the faction of the Swarmlord? Trying to decide how to build my newest Tyrant.

According to the leaks, it doesn't have a faction, although it does have a fixed warlord trait (that kinda sucks).

Tyran wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
What's the faction of the Swarmlord? Trying to decide how to build my newest Tyrant.

According to the leaks, it doesn't have a faction, although it does have a fixed warlord trait (that kinda sucks).

Yeah, but you can still take advantage of its main ability even if it isn't your warlord.

I guess my point is, I don't want to model him and be restricted to a specific army tactic. I would definitely want to use the salamanders tactic at first glance.

So i would see myself running him but not as my warlord. Although, i'll need clarity on what "redeploy" means. If it works like alpha legion where you already know if you're going first, that's absolutely huge, since he'll be guaranteed a first turn charge, if you go first.

If going first:
1. Re-Deploy swarmlord.
2. Pop out tyrannocite.
3. Spit out 20 genestealers
4. Use swarmlord ability to move genestealers in shooting phase, move swarmlord forward as normal.
5. Charge with everything, getting every charge guaranteed.

Yes?

But again this all depends. If bringing Swarmy forces you to take on a garbage army tactic is it worth it?

Am I understanding this right. If I take my warlord and make it have the Relic Norn Queen, it has a 30" Radius for Synapse? That's the whole table except the very edges. You could effectively not have to worry about synapse at all, just take the one warlord and then not worry about taking warriors, primes, etc...

Dynas wrote:
Am I understanding this right. If I take my warlord and make it have the Relic Norn Queen, it has a 30" Radius for Synapse? That's the whole table except the very edges. You could effectively not have to worry about synapse at all, just take the one warlord and then not worry about taking warriors, primes, etc...

Well i mean if your warlord dies you have to worry about synapse.

Do you have something in mind that's 9 or less wounds for your warlord? And is that worth it?

 Marmatag wrote:

Dynas wrote:
Am I understanding this right. If I take my warlord and make it have the Relic Norn Queen, it has a 30" Radius for Synapse? That's the whole table except the very edges. You could effectively not have to worry about synapse at all, just take the one warlord and then not worry about taking warriors, primes, etc...

Well i mean if your warlord dies you have to worry about synapse.

Do you have something in mind that's 9 or less wounds for your warlord? And is that worth it?

I think the issue here is that your best units are synapse creatures. Why would you not want to include lots of them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spoletta wrote:
Warriors did get some love:
Deathspitters got cheaper and the range was extended to 24".
Venom cannon got 1 more AP.
Extended synapse range.


I can see them really well with a spitter and swords, with a prime for 2+ and reroll 1's from tactic.
Also, Gorgon would be really nice. Unit of 9 with venom glands, strategem for venom on 5+ and stratagem to fight again. I've got to math this out, but i think that we are threathening an IK easily.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, no. For some reason i understood that we had a stratagem to fight twice. Without it they take ONLY 13 wounds off a knight,

Cheaper deathspitters is a welcome change. We also have the ability to put a prime on the front lines with warriors too with a command point. Sorry - warriors are my favorite unit. I'd really like to be able to spam them lol.

 Marmatag wrote:

Dynas wrote:
Am I understanding this right. If I take my warlord and make it have the Relic Norn Queen, it has a 30" Radius for Synapse? That's the whole table except the very edges. You could effectively not have to worry about synapse at all, just take the one warlord and then not worry about taking warriors, primes, etc...

Well i mean if your warlord dies you have to worry about synapse.

Do you have something in mind that's 9 or less wounds for your warlord? And is that worth it?

Malanthrope. Just thinking at loud.

 Niiai wrote:
Page 1 does not include my stratigic insight.

I also would like to include my sources, not all of that was one page 1 when I started writing. Also lordhikaru deserves a big thanks for taking the time to write it up. Always include your sources.

He does. Rumors were so fast last night that I didn't have the time to attribute each rumor to it's source and I just sort of gave up for a but just trying to keep it all organized. Strategic Info will replace the rumors once the book releases in the first post. By all means if you want to organize it in the thread and keep it updated I will add it to the OP when the time is right.

Also https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/30/tyranid-codex-preview-synapse-instinctive-behaviour-and-the-shadow-in-the-warp-oct-30gw-homepage-post-2/

You don't NEED to be in synapse to not have IB.

Synapse gives you auto moral test pass. at 12" by defualt (confirmed) and 18 on tyrants (rumored).
IB takes effect if you are more than 24" away from a synapse creature (otherwise works as rumored (confirmed)
SITW is up to 18" away from any unit with this ability.

Are Hormagaunts or Termagaunts getting a price cut? Or an adjustment?

That means the rumored Norn Crown extending the IB negating effect to 30" is only an additional 6. Not the greatest in the world.