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2017/10/29 18:54:32
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Welcome to the Tyranid Tactics Thread! Your one stop shop for all things nids in 8th edition. This first post Is going to be maintained, by which I mean updated. It's a group effort and if you have anything you wish to contribute to it please feel free to PM me with any contributions you wish to add. IMPORTANT This thread is going to be LONG and keeping the formatting nice and neat is a lot of work. Please. If your going to PM something to me keep the format consistent so I can just copy and paste your contribution to the thread. If I have to edit and adjust everyones PMs it will become a horrible nightmare for me. Help me help us by formatting correctly! Thanks!
Quick Reference Sheets for all units and wargear by Lance845
Spoiler:
Fill-able by downloading GIMP (free photoshop) and using the text tool. I am working on creating a fill-able pdf form version so you can just type into it, but it's a lot of trial and error work.
Full Page
Small Format
Special Rules
Spoiler:
<Hive Fleet> Adaptations
Spoiler:
Warlord Traits
Spoiler:
Behemoth Wound rolls of 6+ in a fight deal +1 dmg.
Kraken Pick a unit within 6". That unit gets to fight first.
Leviathan Once per round reroll a single hit, wound, dmg, advance, charge or save.
Gorgon End of fight roll a d6 for enemy units with 1" 4+ thy suffer a MW.
Jormungdr Warlord + friendly units within 3" ignore cover.
Hydra roll 1d6 for every lost wound. 6+ heal 1 wound.
Kronos Enemy Psykers within 18" suffer d3 MW when they fail a psychic test.
General Alien Cunning Redeploy your warlord before the game begins
Heightened Senses Never suffer penalties to hit.
Synaptic Lynchpin +6" to synapse
Mind Eater Each time the warlord slays a character in the fight phase pick a unit within 3" of the warlord. At the end of the phase the unit can move and advance.
Instinctive Killer Pick a unit before the game begin. Reroll failed hit rolls for all enemy units with the same datasheet.
Adaptive Biology At the end of the phase when you take damage, for the rest of the game reduce all damage by 1 to a minimum of 1.
Powers of the Hive Mind
Spoiler:
Dominion Select a unit within 36" that has Instinctive Behavior. Ignore IB until your next turn.
Catalyst Select friendly unit within 18". It gains 5+ FNP
The Horror Select a unit within 24". -1 to hit and leadership until your next psychic phase.
Onslaught Select a friendly unit within 18". Removes the penalties for moving and advancing when shooting heavy weapons, assault weapons and charging.
Paroxysm Choose a unit within 18". That unit has to fight last.
Psychic Scream Nearest enemy unit within 18" sufers d3 MW. If it's a psyker roll2d6. If the result is higher than their leadership the unit forgets a power.
Monstrous Bio-cannons Two Deathspitters with Slimer Maggots Two Devourers with Brainleech Worms Stranglethorn Cannon Heavy Venom Cannon
Bio-Artifacts Scythes of Tyran - Behemouth
Chameleonic Mutation - Kraken
Hyper-Adaptive Biology - Gorgon
Slayer Sabres - Leviathan
Slimer Maggot Infestation - Hydra
Balethorn Cannon - Kronos
Infrasonic Roar - Jormungandr
The Ymgarl Factor
The Reaper of Obliterax
The Maw Claws of Thyrax - A model with Rending Claws or MRC. If you slay a model in the fight phase you reroll all hit rolls in all subsequent fight phases. Lance845: Pretty freaking great for a Melee tyrant. MRC costs 0 points. If you want a relic on the tyrant for melee this will keep him chewing threw the enemy even as it's stat line degrades.
The Norn Crown - Friendly <Hive Fleet> units within 30" do not suffer from IB. Lance845: Basically worthless. It adds 6 inches to the range needed to negate Instinctive Behaviour. The default range is 2 ft. (24") which is incredibly large. It doesn't increase Synapse or Shadow in the Warp range, so why exactly would you take this over something actually useful like the Miasma Cannon?
The Miasma Cannon - Replace a Heavy Venom Cannon. Just like the regular HVC except it always wounds non Vehicles on a 2+ and auto hits targets within 8". Lance845: Unless your Hive Fleet of choice has a great weapon that fits your tactics this thing is probably an auto take for shooting.
Stratagems
Spoiler:
Behemoth
Kraken
Leviathan
Gorgon
Jormungdr
Hydra
Kronos
General Psychic Barrage 1CP
Caustic Blood 1CP
Rapid Regeneration 2 CP
Scorch Bugs 1 CP
Feeder Tendrils 1 CP
Implant Attack 1 CP
Bounty of the Hive Fleet 1 CP/3 CP
Metabolic Overdrive 1 CP
Single-Minded Annihilation 2 CP
Grisly Feast 1 CP
Pathogenic Slime 2 CP
Sporefield 3CP
Invisible Hunter 1 CP
Power of the Hive Mind 1 CP
Pheromone Trail 1 CP
Death Frenzy 2 CP
Overrun 1 CP
Voracious Appetite 1 CP
Units
Spoiler:
HQ Hive Tyrant Currently pretty great. But take at least 2. Their new invulnerable save makes them much more durable but it's a little swingy and focus fire will bring them down. Typical load out's generally include Monstrous Rending Claws (because they are free and good) and a gun (either 2x Devourers or 2x Deathspitters (1/2 the shots but -1AP) or a bio canon. Wing's lets you deepstrike. Kraken Flying Tyrants can fall back, shoot and then charge again. Abuse this. Pairs well with Gargoyles and Shrikes.
Tyranid Prime A must have for warrior heavy lists. A nice durable and not too expensive leader bug. Weapon options have become pretty limited since it lost access to bio canons for some reason but It's real boost is giving all your warriors the +1 to hit.
Neurothrope Arguably our best Psyker. Rerolls 1s in psychic tests, can cast 2 powers, 3+ invulnerable save, heals itself with it's smite, and a character with less than 10 wounds. Why would you bring zoanthropes when you can just bring more of these guys?
Tervigon Not worth it unless you want to invest very heavily into termagants and Tervigons. At minimum you should be bringing 2 Tervigons and 3 units of 30 termagants (either 15 fleshborers/15 devourers or 20 Fleshborers/10 devourers each) to get some real kick out of these guys. The Termagants will cause all kinds of havoc and the 2 tervigons will respawn 20 termagants a turn while being 28 wounds of tough big bug the enemy needs to displace to stop you. Plus psyker support and your gants will be rerolling 1s to hit and wound. It takes a lot to make them work but they CAN work.
Broodlord
Old One Eye
Swarmlord
-Forge World- Malanthrope
Troops Hormagaunts Not the killiest things in the world but an excellent forward swarm for getting all up in enemy gun lines faces and stopping their shooting for a turn. Their 6" pile in/consolidate makes all the difference in the world. See below in tactics for how to effectively use this and why it's so good.
Termagants GREAT horde troops. Coupled with a delivery system and the shoot twice stratagem these guys make for a devestating Termagant bomb just from sheer numbers. See below in tactics.
Genestealers
Ripper Swarms Cheap and great for deepstriking onto objectives or filling up a deployment zone if you are investing heavily in your own deepstrikes to prevent enemys from enetering your back field. Don't expect them o do much killing.
Tyranid Warriors Potentially really great. Deathspitters are Assault Heavy Bolters that can really lay out some damage and Venom Canons are good for taking out light vehicles, heavy infantry, and characters who decide to rear their head. You can build them for melee too but for 6 more PPM you can take shrikes who have +6M and FLY. Bring primes with them and make a massive durable (3w t4 takes a bit of fire to bring down, plus get them in cover or be Jormungandr for that 3+ sv) gunline. A full unit with a prime is not a bad choice for the shoot twice stratagem.
Elites Hauraspex
Hive Guard Impaler canons are EXCELLENT anti tank that does not require LoS.
Lictor
Maleceptor
Pyrovore
Tyrant Guard
Venomthropes
Zoanthropes Outshone by the Neurothrope. Why would you bring these guys for more over all points when they can be targeted and the Neurothope can't?
Death Leaper
The Red Terror A little lack luster. Having only ScyTal is a bit of a bummer. Swallow hole is neat but only really useful on weaker or weakened characters. The real bonus is adding +1 to hit on Ravener Broods. If you go Jormungandr your likely bought some Ravener taxis. And if you tricked out those Raveners with rending claws then the Red Terror makes them horrifying in CC.
Fast Attack Gargoyles
Mucolid Spores
Raveners
Sky Slasher Swarms
Spore Mines
-Index- Tyranid Shrikes
-Forge World- Dimachaeron
Meiotic Spores
Fliers Harpy
Hive Crone
Heavy Support Biovore
Carnifex
Screamer Killer
Thorn Back
Exocrine
Mawloc
Toxicrene
Tyrannofex
Trygon
Trygon Prime
-Forge World- Stone Crusher Carnifex
Fortification Sporecyst
Lord of War -Forge World- Harridan
Barbed Hierodule
Scythed Hierodule
Hierophant Biotitan
Tactics Spoletta On units and how well they function with the different hive fleets. NOTE: The grades are NOT a gauge of how powerful the unit is, only their synergy with the specific Hive Fleet.
Spoiler:
HQ
Swarmlord: (Named char, so no relics or WT for him)
Behemoth 4/10
The swarmlord is a melee beast and rerolling charges can be good. That said, when the swarmlord wants to join the fight he has already the option to double move. Doesn't get much out of the stratagem.
Leviathan 6/10
The swarmlord is a prime target. Period. The 6+++ really helps. Combined with some gargoyles he can get some precious rerolls out of the leviathan strategem, but against T7 or more targets it will be better to reroll all wounds.
Kraken 6/10
Falling back and charging again is not usefull for this guy, he has no bonus on charge and no wings to penetrate enemy lines. The stratagem on the other hand can be sick on him, allowing him to charge turn 1 together with the unit he moves.
Gorgon 2/10
Rerolling 1's to wound can sometimes be good, but if you really wanted to crack what you were whacking then you would opt for the stratagem that rerolls all wounds. He also has no toxin sacs, so no stratagem.
Hydra 1/10
Totally useless.
Kronos 2/10
The trait is useless and while the stratagem is sick you will have many other shadows for that.
Jormungandr 5/10
Survivability is always nice, but it doesn't work in melee and on a model with a 4++ having 2+ or 3+ will many times not be important.
Hyve Tyrant (without wings):
Behemoth 5/10
A walkrant is not a first line assault unit, but typically a second or third line. For this reason when he gets to join the fight he has no issues with charge distance. The relic scythes are good, but you will usually prefer one of the biocannons or the reaper of Obliterax. The stratagem is so-so.
Leviathan 5/10
Same considerations as the swarmlord. The leviathan sabres are one of our worst relics and there are many Warlord traits better for an Hyve tyrant than the leviathan trait.
Kraken 6/10
Walkrants have no reason to retreat and charge, or to charge turn 1 with the stratagem. The relic though is excellent, -1 to hit on this platform is priceless, and the warlord trait can sometimes be good.
Gorgon 8/10
Same considerations as the swarmlord, but he can actually take toxin sacs, and with the scytals he has enough attacks and AP to make it matter. The Gorgon relic is what makes this really good though. Play this guy with Tyrant guards and let a single wound go to him, this will activate the Gorgon relic and the sixth generic warlord trait (don’t bother with the Gorgon warlord trait), making the hyve tyrant an unstoppable platform with 12W T8 3+ 4++ reducing all incoming damage by 1. 48 overcharged plasma shot hits, or 36 powerfist hits! And the wounds that get through can be passed to the Tguard (catalyst goes on the Tguards). This is the go to fleet if you want an unstoppable tyrant which gets into enemy lines by turn 3 while fending off enemy shooting. Hydra 2/10
Adaptation is useless, stratagem is useless, warlord trait is rarely useful and the relic while sometimes good will usually be left on the desk in favor of the venom cannon relics.
Kronos (assault) 7/10
A Kronos assault Hyve tyrant has the best Warlord trait in the codex (maybe the best in the game), so he wants to get close and personal. He will not make use of the hive fleet adaptation, but can still make use of the excellent Kronos relic (got to love all our weapons being assault). He has no traits or relics protecting him, so be nice with him and invest in a unit of Tguards.
Kronos (Ranged) 6/10
A Kronos ranged Hyve tyrant makes good use of both the fleet adaptation and the Kronos Relic, but cannot take advantage of the warlord trait. Like with the swarmlord, you will have already enough shadows in place to use the stratagem, he will not need to get in there.
Jormungandr 7/10
A walking Jormungandr hive tyrant is a nice ranged warlord. Increased save and negates cover (extended to other ‘nids within 3”). Forget the Jormu relic and take a bio cannon.
Hive Tyrant (winged):
Behemoth 7/10
A behemoth flyrant is either an assault flyrant or an hybrid one. In both cases the high speed of the flyrant combined with rerolling charges will allow you some impressive stunts. The relic can be good on a full assault Flyrant with double talons, but for the hybrid version you will want the reaper of obliterax or a bio cannon. The warlord trait is a nice option of the assault version.
Leviathan 6/10
The 6+++ is never bad, but the relic is. The Warlord trait can be used to great effect and the stratagem has its advantages.
Kraken 8/10
Kraken stratagem does not work on flying models, and the flyrants have close to no use in gaining a couple of inches more the advance rolls. But charging again after retreating? Boy, that is soooo good! Both the assault, full dakka or hybrid version of a flyrant can get a lot out of this. Kraken relic is always a top grade. Don’t care about the warlord trait. Rather, don’t make this guy you warlord! He will not last long!
Gorgon 2/10
No good. A Gorgon tyrant needs the initial protection of Tguards or he will be focused to death in that single phase he is vulnerable. Flyrants and Tguards are not good friends. The warlord trait can be useful for an assault distraction flyrant, but you would be giving up Slay the Warlord before the end of turn 2. Hydra 3/10
The relic can be useful if you opt for deathspitters over devourers… and that’s it, Hydra tyrants don’t have much going for them.
Kronos 5/10
A flyrant will not stay still, so that is one useless hive fleet adaptation and the relic is not what you want on a flyrant. That said, having a flyrant with the kronos warlord trait hovering over your lines can mess up a list based on psy powers so much that it is actually worth it to lose your warlord.
Jormungandr 1/10
No hive fleet adaptation, useless stratagem, rarely useful relic and warlord trait not good enough to lose the warlord. Definitely not the fleet to spam flyrants.
Old One Eye: (named char)
Behemoth 7/10
OOE wants to get smashy, possibly together with his smashy pals. This fleet will help you avoiding those awkward situations where he charges alone or sits back while his pals charge.
Leviathan 4/10
Now that his has 9 wounds he no longer needs to be protected, the 6+++ is not necessary. The stratagem can be good if he opts for the crushing claws.
Kraken 2/10 Hmm, no! While he loves charging again and again at the same target, we are talking about OOE here, if what he charged has not gone down to the first charge, then it was something big enough to smash him. You will almost never get to use this trick with him, and he also doesn’t want to ultra advance and charge, he prefers to hang back, where those rippers can look menacing enough to get him ignored.
Gorgon 3/10
Rerolling 1’s to wound, can sometimes be good, but if he really wants to break stuff he will spend that CP and reroll all wounds. No toxin sacs. Hydra 1/10
No gain at all.
Kronos 1/10
No gain at all.
Jormungandr 4/10
Popping him out of a tunnel together with his pals can be nice, but he will not benefit from the hive fleet adaptation since at range he is not targetable. Tervigon:
Behemoth 2/10
Tervigons don’t like to assault and this is a deathly sin in a Behemoth fleet. Actually she doesn’t like to do any of the stuff that makes behemoth good.
Leviathan 5/10
Great thing the 6+++, she will need it. Everything else from Leviathan is useless.
Kraken 7/10
Kraken relic, the wet dream of every tervigon. Everything else doesn’t get any use.
Gorgon 5/10
A Tervigon can try to achieve immortality (T9 3+ reduced incoming damage by 1), but will need the cover of venoms and catalyst to make it past the first phase with enough wounds left to make it count. The lack of an invul save really hurts. Hydra 2/10
Tervigons get almost nothing from the Hydra fleet. They can try the hydra warlord trait, but the opponent will rarely make it work.
Kronos 1/10
No gain at all.
Jormungandr 7/10
A 2+ tervigon is an happy tervigon and since she lacks an invul save, she is going to get the most out of it. The warlord trait can be good for all those termagants. Prime:
Behemoth 7/10
Like OOE a prime is happy as long as he is sharing a nice battle with his warrior pals. Rerolling charges will give him the necessary confidence in charging together with everyone.
Leviathan 4/10
If the Prime comes under fire then his time has probably come, and a 6+++ will not save him. All in all he doesn’t get much out of the stratagem and he can’t use the Relic.
Kraken 4/10
The prime doesn’t want to charge alone and doesn’t need to fall back and charge. The relic is waster on him, he is not targetable. The Warlord trait is good though, the warriors do actually care about not hitting first, so a Kraken Prime is a nice support there.
Gorgon 6/10
No access to wounds rerolling on his own, and can take toxin sacs, the Prime does get a nice bonus from Gorgon. The warlord trait is marginally useful, but the relic is useless. Hydra 1/10
Hydra doesn’t offer much to our HQ choices, and Prime is no exception. He gets nothing.
Kronos 6/10
A Kronos Prime in a swarm of gaunts is a good way to deliver the Kronos warlord trait. He will not stay still though, and he cannot take the Kronos relic.
Jormungandr 4/10
Jormungandr has one of the few relics that are actually usable on a Prime. The cover isn’t really useful for an untargetable melee model.
Broodlord :
Behemoth 8/10
Broodlord is yet another model who needs to be kept in company, and yet again Behemoth fleet helps with obtaining a good consistency out of your combined charges. This is also probably the best model for the Behemoth warlord trait, plenty of attacks, high WS, mid strength with rerolled wounds and ignores armor on 6 to wound. Really you can’t go wrong there.
Leviathan 3/10
Like the other untargettable models, a 6+++ isn’t really an help. The stratagem is partially useless since he already rerolls wounds and the warlord trait doesn’t effect him too much.
Kraken 8/10 The best fleet for the broodlord together with Behemoth. Advance on a 3d6 is so good when you can advance and charge. Don’t bother with the relic, it’s wasted on him, but keep the warlord trait since in the (unlikely) event that something survives the stealers assault and fights for another round, going first will do a lot of difference.
Gorgon 1/10
No gain at all. Hydra 1/10
No gain at all.
Kronos 1/10 if he is not your warlord 6/10 if he is.
If you are going for a stealer shock, then having this guy carry the invaluable Kronos warlord trait is a good move. That said, he doesn’t get anything else out of the Kronos fleet.
Jormungandr 4/10
Nice! A cover bonus that doesn’t work on a model that advances and charges on a model that will advance and charge every turn! The tunneling stratagem is useful though, since the lictors always forget to bring the broolord together with the ‘stealers.
Neurothrope:
Neurothropes do not gain ANYTHING from any fleet. Maybe just a bit from Leviathan to save at 6+ those perils. If you make him your warlord you are putting your Slay the warlord point in bank, but you are not getting anything out of your warlord trait. No relic is useful for a Neurothrope.
Troops Warriors:
Behemoth 6/10
Using the Behemoth stratagem on the warriors is not a good idea, but they surely love to throw themselves into the fight, and rerolling charges helps with that.
Leviathan 8/10
Warriors tend to become a fire magnet from turn 2 and onward, since by that time they are an advanced shadow and synapse, while also pestering your lines with deathspitters and menacing to connect with a charge. For this reason, giving them a 6+++ that makes them a less appealing target is a good idea. Being 3 wounds, they get the greatest benefit out of our unit line. D3 weapons are already few, and this adds a lot of uncertainty to using those weapons, so D2 weapons are bad, Dd3 are bad, Dd6 are bad and D3 are bad… you are telling your opponent that he can only bolter them down! The leviathan stratagem also works really well with rending claws and boneswords.
Kraken 3/10
Falling back and charging isn’t really usefull with those guys, they don’t have the mobility to benefit from it. They also don’t want to launch themselves into the enemy lines
Gorgon 7/10
Gorgon warriors aren’t bad at all. Rerolling 1’s to wound is the only kind of wound reroll they can get. They have access to venom and the boneswords are excellent weapons to inoculate it. Better played in big groups with boneswords and a ranged weapon. Don’t take venom cannons, you will be advancing a lot, better go for a strangler and aim at something with 10 or more models.
Hydra 5/10
Rerolling misses is nice, but you won’t be outnumbering your target on a regular basys.
Kronos 4/10
Shooty warriors? With 24” spitters it could be possible, but limiting mobility on them has a sour taste.
Jormungand 9/10
Warriors coming out from a tunnel and spraying heavy bolter shots while sporting a 3+ is the best. Don’t charge, if you have melee weapons wait a turn and go for a guaranteed charge, or you will lose the bonus.
Genestealers:
Behemoth 8/10
This is clearly THE hive fleet for genestealers. They want to arrive on the table and strike on that same turn, and rerolling charges does just that, provided that you have a taxi of some kind. If you don’t have a taxi then go for a different hive fleet. You may want to pay those 2 points for the extended carapace, after all you will hardly need to advance and charge when coming out of a taxi, even in the case that you don’t make contact.
Leviathan 4/10
A 6+++ will not save your ‘stealers, and the stratagem gives them MORE damage, which is the one thing that they don’t need.
Kraken 7/10
Not taxiing your stealers? Kraken is your fleet! Turn 1 charge is almost guaranteed. Better to run multiple units, advance with all of them, the first one to make a good roll gets multiplied by the stratagem and charges. The other ones will serve as a second serving. You may use extended carapaces, but you will need a psyker ready to onslaught.
Gorgon 6/10
Rerolling ones to wound will mean more 6s rolled on those sweet rending claws, but again, it’s more damage. Do they really need it? They can take venom, but at a significant cost. Hydra 5/10
If you don’t play a broodlord then Hydra is actually good, rerolling a 3+ is a significant boost in damage output, not much better than the gorgon bonus though and still only a damage boost. If you already play Hydra for other reasons then genestealers can be good, but don’t play Hydra because of genestealers.
Kronos 1/10
A ranged damage boost, just what genestalers needed…NO!
Jormungandr 3/10
Stealers want to advance. Stealers want to charge. Stealers already have many taxis. Stealers don’t need Jormungandr!
Hormagaunt:
Behemoth 9/10
Dedicated fast melee unit that also loves taxis + rerollable charges= Nice stuff. They are also one of the best possible targets for the Behemoth stratagem, between that and the caustic blood you can turn your gaunts into a good source of mortal wounds. Use them in 30-strong units.
Leviathan 4/10
So, so. Hormagaunts are really linear units, if you shoot at them with the wrong weapon then they will not go down fast enough, if you shoot with the right weapon they get vaporized. A 6+++ does not change this and they already have all the rerolls offered by the stratagem.
Kraken 8/10
Kraken stratagem is a nice way to propel a unit of hormagaunts into the face of your opponents in turn 1, now launch catalyst on them, KEEP THEM UNDER SYNAPSE, and next turn disengage with the survivors and charge deep into their lines. Seriously good stuff. Not to be spammed though, max 1 or 2 units can do this.
Gorgon 5/10
Why oh why do venom sacs on hormagaunts cost 2 points?? Gorgon hormagaunts would be sooo cool otherwise! Instead, they don’t benefit much from the hive fleet adaptation, since they already get that bonus at 20 models and a 30-strong unit with venom sacs comes at 210 points… Hydra 6/10
Rerolling all misses instad of only 1’s is good, and hormagaunts have the numbers to reap this bonus with a reasonable certainty, but the role of hormagaunts is not to inflict damage, and even with this boost they don’t get far.
Kronos 1/10
No gain at all.
Jormungandr 7/10
They will not get the cover bonus a lot of times, but they really really love taxis. Will you try to charge turn 1? Or will you wait turn 2 for a guaranteed charge after a turn of 5+? The choice will depend on your opponent’s army.
Termagants:
Behemoth 4/10
Cheap termagants may like to get in melee, but usually it’s because you get them to be assaulted rather than the opposite.
Leviathan 5/10
Useful on cheapgants, not so much on devilgants which will still be excellent targets. The stratagem gives them no benefit.
Kraken 4/10 No good, they don’t want to charge ahead and don’t need to retreat and charge. The 3d6 advance though can prove useful.
Gorgon 3/10
Definitely a no. They don’t get almost anything out of Gorgon. Hydra 2/10
Sure, they will outnumber the enemy units, but the melee damage output of termagants isn’t ever a menace.
Kronos 4/10
Good, but will you be able to stand still with termagants?
Jormungandr 9/10
Taxi and added protection. Can’t really ask for more. This fleet makes for some excellent devil bombs and is the definite counter to meat screens… and not only them. Ripper swarms
Behemoth 6/10
Rippers can be a big bother for your enemy, deep striking and assaulting things that shoot and don’t fly. Behemoth helps with this.
Leviathan 3/10
Rippers die when the opponent wants them dead. A 6+++ changes nothing.
Kraken 2/10
Let’s make things clear. When playing rippers YOU are the one keeping the other one stuck in melee, not the opposite! Why would you want a fleet that runs from melee?
Gorgon 1/10
Oh nice, increased damage on rippers, now they will really take down those IKs! Let’s try to be serious… Hydra 1/10
A damage boost on rippers that will rarely apply?
Kronos 5/10
No gain at all, but they can be the sacrificial unit that gets dropped so you can use your stratagem safely.
Jormungandr 2/10
Rippers don’t need a taxi and don’t need protection.
Elites:
Tyrant Guard:
Behemoth 6/10
Same as warriors. They are a bad target for the Brute Force stratagem, but they like to get in melee.
Leviathan 9/10
Tyrant guards in Leviathan can exploit a particular combo. When the tyrant gets wounded, he will get to save the wound as per the Leviathan trait. Should he fail, he can pass that wound to a Tguard, which in turn gets to save it again on a 6+++. That makes for a really though nut to crack.
Kraken 6/10
Most players tend to use Genestealers and hormagaunts for the Opportunistic advance stratagem, but Tguards do possess the mobility to be used that way. In particular, 3 tguards with crushing claws can be an unexpected solution to a pesky vehicle.
Gorgon 5/10
Reroll to wounds are surely good on Tguards, but they don't have enough attacks for the stratagem.
Hydra 5/10
Definetely better than it looks. Tguards with crushing claws will always outnumber theyr intended targets, vehicles, and a bit more accuracy is just what they need. (Remember than you don't reroll the failed 3's, modifiers come after the reroll).
Kronos 1/10
Pass.
Jormungand 8/10
Who doesn't love 2+ guards?
Hive Guards:
Behemoth 2/10
This is a clear no. Hive guards want to stay clear of arms reach.
Leviathan 4/10 (impaler) 7/10 (shock)
Some more durability is never bad, in particular for shock guards. Impaler guards can usually find a safe place by themselves.
Kraken 3/10
Hive guards do not need mobility.
Gorgon 2/10
This makes even less sense than behemoth on Hguards.
Hydra 2/10
Again, another hive fleet that wants to push your Hguards in combat and have them reach a miserable end.
Kronos 8/10 (impaler) 6/10 (shock)
Finally one hive fllet that loves Hguards! The impalers will surely love this, and the shocks could gain something from it.
Jormungand 8/10 (shock) 5/10 (impaler)
Charging and advancing is something that Hguards don't do. That said impaler guards also have good chances of already being in cover. Shock guards don't, and this fleet helps them a lot.
Lictor (and Deathleaper):
Behemoth 2/10
They already reroll charges when it matters and are bad bad targets for Brute Force.
Leviathan 5/10
So so, Lictors don't need durability, but they also don't refuse it.
Kraken 3/10
Not really good, Lictors already have a stratagem to fall back and charge (and shoot), and they always arrive from reserves.
Gorgon 6/10
This is good, Lictors lack in offensive capabilities, so Gorgon actually helps. No toxin sacs, but you were not going to use that strategem on them.
Hydra 1/10
8th edition decided that Lictors are strictly single model units, so nothing to see here.
Kronos 4/10
I'm totally going to keep my lictor still so that i can reroll 1's on his flesh hooks! Obviously i'm joking, but he is actually good as a sacrificial pawn 1st turn to deliver a Deepest Shadow.
Jormungand 4/10
Lictors with a 3+ in the open! Too bad that a lictor charges every single turn.
Zoantrhope:
Behemoth 1/10
No, not going to charge.
Leviathan 7/10
T4 3W 3++ is probably the worst possible profile in the game for your opponent. You know what's worse than that? The same profile with a 6++, so your chances of taking them down with d3 damage weaponry become abysmal!
Kraken 5/10
Zoans advance a lot, and doing that with 3d6 can offest that move 5" they have. Decent.
Gorgon 2/10
Rerolling ones to wound on those brain slaps will really teach your opponent not to mess with the brain bugs!... No.
Hydra 2/10
Good, now they can sometimes reroll to hit on that single str 4 Ap- D1 attack!
Kronos 1/10
If you are looking for the zoans that needed to hit with the warp lances, they were discarded with 7th edition.
Jormungand 2/10
Cover on a bug with a 3++? Really?
Maleceptor
Behemoth 5/10
The Maleceptor isn't the scariest beast we have in melee, but it can pull some damage and he is safer there than out in the open.
Leviathan 8/10
Yes! Maleceptors are dangerous as long as they are alive, they don't degrade that much. For this reason, anything that makes them more durable is great for them.
Kraken 4/10
Maleceptors are the distraction fexes of 8th edition and they want to get near the enemy as fast as possible to start messing with the enemy psychic phase. That said, if you use a metabolic advance instead of an opportunistic advance you are getting much further without sacrifcing the best features of a maleceptor.
Gorgon 4/10
This is not going to make a difference for your maleceptor.
Hydra 1/10
Single model unit.
Kronos 5/10
No gain at all, but since they like to get in there real fast, this can be a way to deliver the deepest shadow that requires some effort to be taken out.
Jormungand 3/10
Maleceptor has a 4++, so cover isn't really needed.
Venomthropes
Behemoth 2/10
Not going to charge.
Leviathan 8/10
The venomthropes are high priority targets, they will not live past turn 2, often not even past turn 1. Take this trait for them and they will love you. Also, 3W combines well with 6+++ to shut down d3 damage weapons.
Kraken 4/10
If, and that's a big if, your venoms are alive by turn 2, you will want them to tag along with your advacing guys. 3d6 help with that.
Gorgon 2/10
Pass
Hydra 2/10
Pass
Kronos 2/10
And again, pass.
Jormungand 5/10
Only useful if you can't find decent cover for your venom bugs.
Pyrovores
Behemoth 4/10
Pyrovores like to be charged, not the opposite.
Leviathan 7/10
Leviathan is good as always, but in this case it is a bit better, since if it is your turn, you can acid blood from a wound and save it at the same time.
Kraken 4/10
Pyrovores advance a lot since they use flamers, so they get something out of Kraken.
Gorgon 2/10
Pyrovores do possess some melee capability, but most of their damage comes from flames and acid.
Hydra 4/10
Better than Gorgon usually, at least against vehicles.
Kronos 1/10
No hit rolls, no Kronos.
Jormungand 10/10
Perfect fit. Pyrovores always have problems delivering their package, and Jormungar is great for that. Don't charge when coming out of the tunnels, and remember that pyrovores can spit flames up to 10" away, so you can do that immediately and then sit on your 3+.
Haruspex
Behemoth 7/10
Like all things that want to get in melee, the Haruspex has a lot to gain from Behemoth.
Leviathan 9/10
Like pyrovores, the Haruspex can combo acid blood and the 6+++. What really shines for him is the leviathan stratagem, he can really make use of rerolling all those 1's to generate extra attacks.
Kraken 4/10
There will be other units in the army that want to use opportunistic advance, and the haruspex is too big to move around units with the fall back and charge trick.
Gorgon 7/10
The Haruspex hurts in melee, and rerolling wounds is nice.
Hydra 1/10
Single model unit.
Kronos 1/10
No ranged attacks.
Jormungand 8/10
Jormungard turns haruspici into Land raiders. Self healing T8 2+ is THOUGH!
Drager on our best anti tank options vs various things you will see on the table!
Spoiler:
First off let's compare their damage profiles against various targets. In this case, I am assuming that both are in range and stationary. The range difference I'll discuss below.
Super Heavy
Here the rupture cannon is a clear winner, if you are facing a meta replete with knights and titans the Rupture cannon is the better choice and worth the extra 16 points. The Bioplasmic Cannon is by no means bad though and catches up a lot with Pathogenic Slime, getting more of a boost than the Rupture Cannon. Against these targets 2-3 rupture cannons are what you want for certain.
"Rupture Cannon With Pathogenic Slime vs Toughness: 8 Save: 3+/5++ Wounds: 24 Average Damage: 8 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 57%"
"Rupture Cannon vs Toughness: 8 Save: 3+/5++ Wounds: 24 Average Damage: 6.22 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 57%"
"Bioplasmic Cannon With Pathogenic Slime vs Toughness: 8 Save: 2+ Wounds: 24 Average Damage: 5.33 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 55%"
"Bioplasmic Cannon vs Toughness: 8 Save: 3+/5++ Wounds: 24 Average Damage: 3.56 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 26%"
Armour
Tank
Here again, the Rupture Cannon is better, so if the enemy army is overloading on Russ chassis it could be useful, however, unlike with super heavies you don't want more than one, in fact the optimal pair is Rupture Cannon and Exocrine, not wasting killing power or paying more than needed. If you are taking 3 weapon beasts and facing a Russ herd then 2 Rupture Cannon and 1 Exocrine seems best. If you are facing 2-3 heavy chassis then 2 Exocrine and 1 Rupture will get the job done nicely and leave you with other advantages.
"Rupture Cannon With Pathogenic Slime vs Toughness: 8 Save: 3+ Wounds: 12 Average Damage: 10 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 72%"
"Rupture Cannon vs Toughness: 8 Save: 3+ Wounds: 12 Average Damage: 7.78 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 72%"
"Bioplasmic Cannon With Pathogenic Slime vs Toughness: 8 Save: 3+ Wounds: 12 Average Damage: 6.67 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 68%"
"Bioplasmic Cannon vs Toughness: 8 Save: 3+ Wounds: 12 Average Damage: 4.44 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 39%"
Transport
This is probably the most common vehicle toughness/save combination in 40k at the moment and the Bioplasmic Cannon with pathogenic slime is by far our best bet at totalling one in a single volley, although both it and a slimey Rupture Cannon tie on average damage. I would typically want to shoot this target with 2 things, however, as that will more likely succeed at the kill and in that case, two bioplasmic cannons or two Rupture Cannons is fine, although the Rupture cannon costs more for a very similar performance and much less of a boost with Slime. Very similar performance in this category. I'd probably take 3 Exocrines and a Biovore over 3 Tyrannofex against razorspam.
"Bioplasmic Cannon With Pathogenic Slime vs Toughness: 7 Save: 3+ Wounds: 12 Average Damage: 10 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 89%"
"Rupture Cannon With Pathogenic Slime vs Toughness: 7 Save: 3+ Wounds: 12 Average Damage: 10 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 72%"
"Rupture Cannon vs Toughness: 7 Save: 3+ Wounds: 12 Average Damage: 7.78 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 72%"
"Bioplasmic Cannon vs Toughness: 7 Save: 3+ Wounds: 12 Average Damage: 6.67 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 69%"
Infantry
Given the similar performance against armour (except super heavies) this is an important thing to look at, what else can these beasts do? And the answer is simple. Shoot infantry. The Biplasmic Cannon massively out performs at this secondary role.
TEQ
"Bioplasmic Cannon vs Toughness: 4 Save: 2+/5++ Wounds: 2 Average Damage: 7.11 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 74%"
"Rupture Cannon vs Toughness: 4 Save: 2+/5++ Wounds: 2 Average Damage: 4.44 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 39%"
MEQ
"Bioplasmic Cannon vs Toughness: 4 Save: 3+ Wounds: 1 Average Damage: 4.44 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 26%"
"Rupture Cannon vs Toughness: 4 Save: 3+ Wounds: 1 Average Damage: 2.78 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 1%"
GEQ
"Bioplasmic Cannon vs Toughness: 3 Save: 5+ Wounds: 1 Average Damage: 7.78 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 91%"
"Rupture Cannon vs Toughness: 3 Save: 5+ Wounds: 1 Average Damage: 3.89 Wounds Probability of 6 or more wounds: 7%" Range
The extra 12" of range rarely comes up in most deployment types, either they are 60+" away or within 48", especially if you hold your weapon beasts to deploy after their tanks.
Other COnsiderations
Against super heavy armour, we actually have a different unit in the same price bracket that is better at killing them: Shock Cannon Hive Guard. These have their own set of issues though so are not clearly better (24" range being the big bugbear).
Verdict
Writing this I've actually changed my mind. Whilst taking one or two of the big beasts I'd still go with 2 Exocrine, I'd say with 3 you want to split it 2 Exocrine/1 Tyrannofex. They are much closer than I originally thought. Thanks for getting me to reconsider.
Dynas made a chart showing % chance for success on a charge at various distances and various effects (Adrenal Glands and rerolls)
Spoiler:
I had some spare time on my hands. I search for tables but couldn't find anything, so... I made a thing. Using mostly this website, and a little manual math. http://anydice.com/
Mathhammer tables for Charge ranges. Orange is a base 2d6 with no rerolls Blue is 2d6 and reroll the charge (both Dice) if result is less than 9". Basically charge from Deepstrike and using an ability that grants a reroll of charges. Yellow is 2d6 and reroll the charge (both Dice) if result is less than 8". Basically charge from Deepstrike, but you get a +1 to move or charges (adrenal glands on Tyranids for example). Green is 2d6 and reroll the charge (both Dice) if result is less than 7". I just chose 7 because that is the most probable number on 2d6. Purple is rerolling 1's on a single die.
Now the hardest one to figure was the Red. Roll 2d6, rerolling the single lowest die. Basically using a command point. The White table at the bottom is the data on this.
TL;DR Here are the Mathhammer results on Charging Tables.
Traceoftoxin with a chart detailing point cost per average damage against average vehicles (T7 3+ sv).
Spoiler:
Traceoftoxin On charge/pile in/consolidate rules and how Hormagaunts 6" pile in is better then you might think.
Spoiler:
One thing I keep seeing people misunderstanding (Not in this thread, specifically) is basic charge, pile in and consolidate rules, and how these apply to Hormagaunts. I've made some pics to illustrate the strength of the 6" pile in. [spoiler]
Lance845 on clearing Screens with a Termagant Bomb.
Spoiler:
Being able to charge out of deepstrikes and transports has opened up melee a lot in the game. As a result players have begun to build a lot of screens or bubble wrap into their list to protect their more vital units from these first turn charges. Tyranids however have been given the tools to deliver a incredibly powerful weapon to clear away these screens or soften targets before they are hit in melee.
You will need 3 things. 1) A full unit of Termagants equiped with devourers. 2) A taxi or delivery method to deepstrike the Termagants into position. 3) 2 command points.
The default transport for the unit is a Trygon or Trygon Prime. They can bring a unit with them in their Trygon tunnel and their base is large enough to fit all 30 Termagants within the range needed to pull this off. Alternatively for 1 Command point you can use Pheromone Trail to bring them to a lictor, but you will still need a trygon to get the unit into reserves to begin with and it can be near impossible (if at all possible) to fit all 30 grants within 6" of the lictor. Finally, with the Jormungandr Hive Fleet for 1 CP you can use The Enemy Below to bring the unit in a tunnel and deepstrike with a much less expensive unit of Raveners, a Mawloc, trygon or Trygon Prime.
On your shooting phase the 30 Termagants with devourers will fire 90 strength 4 shots into whatever enemy screen they have rerolling 1s to wound. At the end of your shooting phase spend your 2 CP on Single-Minded Annihilation to have the unit shoot again. There are very few screens that can potentially survive 180 shots. Chances are you will have completely annihilated any protection they had set up on their front line and softened up some of your prime targets for your first turn charges. You may even expose now target-able characters that were hiding behind the line so the rest of your army can shoot away at them. Learn to love the Termagant Bomb. It is a potent tool in our arsenal to break an enemies protective lines or just plain lay down some incredible amounts of dakka to put a dent in the enemies army.
Tyranid Soup
Spoiler:
This message was edited 59 times. Last update was at 2018/02/19 03:26:54
2017/10/29 22:29:10
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
+1 save and a strat that potentially allows me to deepstrike units that cant normally do so? Yes. So yes. If that works with monsters i will be dumping fex broods out of tunnels for sure.
2017/10/30 02:35:13
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Many updates. Anything from a source that is not Seag is in red, simply because I wanted to sort out anyone not the guy who seems most credible from the others. But it all seems pretty on point to me for the most part.
2017/10/30 04:43:38
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
A unit with this adaptation (other than units that can fly) always has the benefit of cover for the purpose of shooting attacks. If the unit advances or charges, however, it loses the benefits of this adaptation until the start of your movement phase.
Still seems good to me. Charging you would loose the benefit anyway cause your in combat. Though you could end up loosing it when they fall back. Not workig on Fly sucks but that mostly means Flyrants and Gargoyls.
2017/10/30 10:14:55
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Another round of updates added in. More relics, some points, Swarmlord appears to deal additional mortal wounds on 6s. Weapon costs. Thornback details.
2017/10/30 10:41:15
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
dan2026 wrote: I wonder what Synapse creature would be best to stick with a Tyrannofex gunline.
With what I have read so far I still don't think Tyrannofexes are the way to go. Their guns still don't have the range to be effective with their bonus rules. That being said, a brood of warriors with a biocannon looks to be fairly inexpensive and can add fire support at roughly the same range as the Exocrines.
2017/10/30 10:57:34
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
dan2026 wrote: I wonder what Synapse creature would be best to stick with a Tyrannofex gunline.
With what I have read so far I still don't think Tyrannofexes are the way to go. Their guns still don't have the range to be effective with their bonus rules. That being said, a brood of warriors with a biocannon looks to be fairly inexpensive and can add fire support at roughly the same range as the Exocrines.
I think the 36 inch of the Capsule Cannon should be enough. Also 6 LasCan shoots on one model are not exactly terrible. I would play him....
Additionally, it is not know yet how good a normal venom cannon will be, right?
We haven't hear of any boosts to the tyrannofexes stat line yet. If it's 6 shots at BS 4+ doing d6dmg (averaging 3 hits and a potential 3-18 dmg (9-12ish average)) or you can have 12 shots at BS 3+ doing 2 dmg each. (Average 8 hits and a potential 16 dmg consistently) for less points then the Tyrannofexes.
2017/10/30 11:07:51
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Cool. Play what you enjoy. Was just pointing out that I am not entirely sure they fixed the Tfex yet. I am hoping there is something there I am not seeing so that Tfex and Exocrines serve similar but situationally better roles. But at the moment I think exocrines still just outclass them point for point.
2017/10/30 11:14:44
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Amishprn86 wrote: What a Capsule Cannon? I play nids for years and never heard that before.
Edit: I agree with Lance845, Exocrine so far is still better IMO but the Tfex is BETTER than it was, with the re-roll 1 miss and 1 wound trait and 3 shots compare to 2 (well with something like a 25% chance to shoot 2 more) its over all better, play it if you like, we wont really know till its on the table a couple times.
I assume he means rupture cannon. Might be a translation thing.
2017/10/30 11:22:44
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Sim-Life wrote: Super speedy but fragile Gorgon Genestealers or slightly slower super armored 3+ Jormungandr genestealers? Opinions?
Jormungandr sucks for a CQC army, best tactics are Behemoth/Hydra/Kraken for CQC in that order
I dont agree, i think it is highly dependent on many other factors.
Re-rolling Fail charges IS very strong, but i wouldnt say the best. Fallback and charge isnt good IMO for CC nid armies with Gants and its 6" consolidate, genestealers etc.. i would take this trait ever. Re-roll misses on the other hand for outnumbering is good.
You need to also look at the stratagems at the same time.
Stratagem: Hypertoxicity (1CP)
Use during the Fight Phase. Choose a Gorgon unit equipped with Toxin Sacs. The biomorph does 1 additional damage on To_Wound rolls <----Always good
Stratagem: Endless Swarm (2cp)**
Select a destroyed unit of Termagants, Hormsgaunts, Gargoyles, or any Hydra Infantry unit that has been completely destroyed. Add an identical unit to your army and set it up as reinforcements wholly within 6” of any board edge, and more than 9 inch from any enemy units <-----Do you need to pay Reinforcement points?
Stratagem: Opportunistic Advance (1CP)
Use in the Movement Phase. Choose a Kraken unit that does not have the Fly keyword. When Advancing you can double number you roll when determining how much to add to the unit's Movemnt characteristic <--- Good if footslugging
Im just saying, depeding on Stratagems, playstyle (DSing vs footslug) and other units in your army or detachment it will depend on what you need to take.
Endless Swarm is terrible unfortunately, the Reinforcement rules are just not playable in current state so Hydra starts without a Stratagem, Kraken one does seem good but unless you're a Genestealer you're not really making any decent use out of Opportunistic Advance (and it has no real Sinergy with its Hive Fleet Tactic).
Hypertoxicity is just bad, you're not taking Toxin Sacs in the first place and even if you do you're paying a CP just add +1 on that rule (and you could just pay 3 CP to attack again and do much more damage)
Endless swarm is just bad, if you have to pay for points. Tide of Traitors from CSM does not have to, so why should we?
Opportunistic Advance can be very good in late game or maelstrom to get objectives.
Hypertoxicity really depends on how good tox sacs are. Maybe they will be quite cheap? Also some people on tournaments took them to get rid of Knights and such.
The reason it costs points is super simple.
Reinforcement Points states: new units = Points
Adding to an existing unit = no points.
Tide of Traitors
Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. If
you do, pick a unit of Chaos Cultists and remove it from
the battlefield. You can then set it up again wholly within
6" of the edge of the battlefield and more than 9" from any
enemy models, at its full starting strength.
Endless Swarm
Select a destroyed unit of gants, horms, garg or any hydra inf unit that has been completely destroyted. Add an identical unit to your army and set it up as reinforcement wholly 6inch of any board edge , more than 9 inch from enemy
Tide of Traitors is Endless Swarm made FUNCTIONAL and BETTER, that's the problem. Whilst tecnically the gants unit is "a new one" Tide of Traitors just works as if it were another unit of Cultists (you can remove them whenever you want and wherever they are; on the other hand gants have to DIE FIRST and then you have to allocate the same points costs for the same unit that could have started the game on the field)
If it's true that Endless swarm works the way the rumors say it does I expect it will get Errata/FAQed to either specifically not cost points or to match the wording of ToT. As stated, it's basically useless the way it is.
2017/10/30 11:47:12
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Niiai wrote: Page 1 does not include my stratigic insight.
I also would like to include my sources, not all of that was one page 1 when I started writing. Also lordhikaru deserves a big thanks for taking the time to write it up. Always include your sources.
He does. Rumors were so fast last night that I didn't have the time to attribute each rumor to it's source and I just sort of gave up for a but just trying to keep it all organized. Strategic Info will replace the rumors once the book releases in the first post. By all means if you want to organize it in the thread and keep it updated I will add it to the OP when the time is right.
Synapse gives you auto moral test pass. at 12" by defualt (confirmed) and 18 on tyrants (rumored).
IB takes effect if you are more than 24" away from a synapse creature (otherwise works as rumored (confirmed)
SITW is up to 18" away from any unit with this ability.
2017/10/30 17:36:53
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Significantly. The extra point of toughness is actually at one of the 3ish critical average tipping points for str vs toughness.
T3 vs T4 with the prevalence of str3/4 infantry guns and melee. Str T5/6/7 with the lower end of anti tank being str 6 and Taus many str 5 things. the next teir is T8/9 for the really big guns.
Now that tyrants are T7 only the biggest guns will hurt us on a 3+ and those double str power fist like things hitting with str 12 will be just as effective. Enemies need str 14 to wound on a 2+
Add in 2 extra wounds and increase our 5++ to 4++.
Jormungr Walkrants will have a 2+ armor save to shooting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/30 18:09:40
2017/10/30 18:11:29
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Traceoftoxin wrote: Statistically, 4x MC devourers are superior to 4x MC Deathspitters against every target in the game except T7 3+, and even then it's only ~10% better.
4x MC devourers are superior to TL Asscans against every target.
Dakkafex are our version of Assbacks. 4-6 for every list.
Wait, have MC devourers changed?
Rumored to have doubled their shots.
Deathspitters remain unchanged besides price.
Devs are 6 shots but otherwise unchanged besides price.
Deathspitter have -1 AP. Devs have just way more dice.
2017/10/30 19:18:32
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Spoletta wrote: Guys am i the only one that is thinking about a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive?
40 S5 shots +1 to wound and damage 2?
Plus 8 S5 shots damage 2?
Yeah, no AP but something has to pass!
You will never get 40 shots. The Hives are only range 18" I think. An enemy would have to willingly move within 18" of you and then choose not to charge. The Tyrannofex will be blasted off the board from longer range or will get so tied up in a melee that is never fires it's guns once all game. For about the same points you could almost bring a full broods of devil gaunts shooting 60 times rerolling 1s, at the same range, without having to stand still.
2017/10/30 19:21:41
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I didn't bother posting the bit about OOE and Swarmlord not being tied to fleets because it's not a change. It is true though. They continue to be able to be taken by any fleet. OOE however DOES get the behemouth WL trait regardless (acording to the rumors... haven't seen the sheet myself).
2017/10/30 19:31:45
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
If all of this shapes up to be really true I am most excited for our general balance. I don't see anything in the leaks that looks like it's incredibly broken. There is no option we have that looks like it entirely dominates the table. and brings the uber cheese.
We look to have many viable options available to us for a really strong internal balance they can deal with just about any threat depending on how you build for a very excellent external balance.
That is the best possible scenario. Nids might just be the most balanced dex so far. I am ecstatic.
2017/10/30 19:38:36
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Traceoftoxin wrote: Statistically, 4x MC devourers are superior to 4x MC Deathspitters against every target in the game except T7 3+, and even then it's only ~10% better.
4x MC devourers are superior to TL Asscans against every target.
Dakkafex are our version of Assbacks. 4-6 for every list.
Because 2x Devourers per fex is now 24 shots. That's pretty nifty. But at 18".
Comparing to Razorback (which doesn't move), and neither has access to rerolls:
Against 2+ save, the razorback wins, 33% more effective.
Against 3+ save, it's even.
Against 4+ save, the dakkafex is 13% more effective.
Against 5+ save, the dakkafex is 20% more effective.
Against 6+ save, the dakkafex is 25% more effective.
Built purely for this dakka and nothing else in its utility belt, the Dakkafex is cheaper, as well, but doesn't transport troops, although that hardly matters.
Solid buff. Gonna "spam" these.
Dakkafex has 18" move, but fires at full when moving, with 7" move, so can effectively put its fire down more flexibly, however the razor can move 12 and fire at 4+, and has much better access to rerolls. It's very comparable, though I'd give advantage to razorback.
However, You did your math wrong somewhere. Both are BS3+
Against T7
2+ Both are .88
3+ AC 1.33, Dev 1.77
4+ AC 1.7, Dev 2.6
5+ AC 2.22, Dev 3.55
6+ AC 2.66, Dev 4.44
Dakkafex should be 6 pts more than the razorback. 16 more with the -1 to hit, which you should always take, as it effectively makes the Carnifex 9-16W depending on BS of firing units.
Wait... wut? I think you mean the razorback has a 18" or that dakafex has a 18" range.
2017/10/30 21:23:31
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The thodrnback fex isnt anti vehicle loadout. Its anti infantry.
High volume of shot and if you get into melee with it there is a chance for mortal wounds at the end of the fighting. Infantry dont want to leave it shooting but they also dont want to pile in and try to bog it down in melee either.
2017/10/31 04:13:58
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Updated the OP. Removing Rumors replaced with fact.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Interesting to note, does anyone remember that rumor from a little over a year ago that Synapse was going to grant FNP? There was a image of a playtest rule or something and everyone said it looked like it was fake.
Now it's Leviathans Adaptation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/31 17:07:02
2017/10/31 17:47:33
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Zimko wrote: So, kill or tie up a screen with 30 devgaunts from a raveners tunnel (Jorg strat) and bring 30 horms from a Trygon tunnel with a glands (And or make them behemoth). Follow up with smite spam from neuros to kill vehicles. With 5 neuros, that's roughly 1000 points. Still plenty of room to add a ranged element and objective grabbers. Rippers, regular gaunts, malanthrope, biovores, hive guard. Whatever ends up being most point efficient and capable of dealing with vehicle spam.
But alas the codex isn't here yet so this is just speculation.
I've been doing something similar to this. I run 60 gants and 20 stealers on the board, have 2x trygons, 1 with 20 stealers and 1 with 30 devgants.
Works very well. Will work better with codex buffs.
I guess what i'm saying is you wouldn't need the Trygon with the new stratagem to deploy your devgaunts.
Do you find your list is competitive now with those models? Do you also run the Swarmlord?
Hmm a Trygon is big, but can you put 30 devgaunts within 3" of raveners?
3 Raveners in coherency in a line gives you about a 14" x 7.5" space to fill up minus the raveners themselves.
2017/10/31 17:59:33
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Amishprn86 wrote: It says in its rules Living Bombs: "If you are playing matched play games, the creation of new Spore Mines is free, and Spore Mine's points cost does not come out of your pool of reinforcement points."
Clearly this is not referring to a new full size unit. The wording may allow it in the new codex, but I would not be surprised to see it FAQ'd away.
When a biovore shoots it's gun it creates a new unit of spore mines. The size of the unit doesn't matter/is irrelevant. It creates a new unit.
2017/10/31 18:31:27
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Yeah, I think I will be doing Jormungandr myself as well. The more I look at it it's too flexible. I can adapt my deployments and which units are set up in tunnels or on the field each game without really changing the list itself but have entirely different first turn impacts.
Jormungandr is great.
2017/10/31 18:44:52
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
