Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured

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**Niiai**

You are doing a very good job Lance. If I end up with anything to include in the OP I would like to post it. Currently I needed to sort out my thoughts. Writing about it helps it. I suspect other people are in the same situation.

What hive rule is best with what unit for instance. Exochrine with is better with Krono, and Lasercannon Tyranofex is better with Leaviathan.

Behemot is good wirth gargoyles and hormagaunts. 1 command point for 6 mortral wounds, yes please! Hydra or Gorgon is best with genstealers etc.

With so many good stratagems I think a brigade detcahement might actually be usefull for the 12 command points. Dakka raveners, lictors, ripper swarms and biovores quickly fill out the rooster. The only difficult possition is the HQ choise.

Neuronthrope, Malanthrope and Tyranid Warrior Prime can do the trick. If all the small units are support role you stil have points left for a big unit and/or a big gunbeast in the backline.

If a list can press in a 4th HQ we can probably have even more stratgem points. Or drip our feet into having suporting cultists.

**Spoletta**

Take a tyrant + gorgon fleet + venom glands + reaper of obliterax + gorgon stratagem + reroll wound stratagem = 5 attacks hitting on rerollable 2+, S6 rerollable, 3D AP2, 4D on 5 to wound and 7D on 6 to Wound.

Averages 9 wounds on a stormraven.

I'm gonna call him the Gorgon Reaper

For additional fun you can give him the gorgon warlord trait and inflict an additional MW on 4+.

**Marmatag**

With this stratagem can you really get 180 shots out of a termagaunt squad

**Razerous**

How much more sturdy are Hive Tyrants now?

**Traceoftoxin**

Statistically, 4x MC devourers are superior to 4x MC Deathspitters against every target in the game except T7 3+, and even then it's only ~10% better.

4x MC devourers are superior to TL Asscans against every target.

Dakkafex are our version of Assbacks. 4-6 for every list.

**Lance845**

Razerous wrote:
How much more sturdy are Hive Tyrants now?

Significantly. The extra point of toughness is actually at one of the 3ish critical average tipping points for str vs toughness.

T3 vs T4 with the prevalence of str3/4 infantry guns and melee. Str T5/6/7 with the lower end of anti tank being str 6 and Taus many str 5 things. the next teir is T8/9 for the really big guns.

Now that tyrants are T7 only the biggest guns will hurt us on a 3+ and those double str power fist like things hitting with str 12 will be just as effective. Enemies need str 14 to wound on a 2+

Add in 2 extra wounds and increase our 5++ to 4++.

Jormungr Walkrants will have a 2+ armor save to shooting.

**Razerous**

Traceoftoxin wrote:
Statistically, 4x MC devourers are superior to 4x MC Deathspitters against every target in the game except T7 3+, and even then it's only ~10% better.

4x MC devourers are superior to TL Asscans against every target.

Dakkafex are our version of Assbacks. 4-6 for every list.

Wait, have MC devourers changed?

**Traceoftoxin**

Razerous wrote:
Traceoftoxin wrote:
Statistically, 4x MC devourers are superior to 4x MC Deathspitters against every target in the game except T7 3+, and even then it's only ~10% better.

4x MC devourers are superior to TL Asscans against every target.

Dakkafex are our version of Assbacks. 4-6 for every list.
Wait, have MC devourers changed?

Doubled in shots. MC devourers are 6 shots each, so 24 shots for 4. MC deathspitters stay 3 shots each, but have +1S and AP -1.

The rumored costs put a BS 3+ dakkafex at 106, 116 with -1 to hit.

**Lance845**

Razerous wrote:
Traceoftoxin wrote:
Statistically, 4x MC devourers are superior to 4x MC Deathspitters against every target in the game except T7 3+, and even then it's only ~10% better.

4x MC devourers are superior to TL Asscans against every target.

Dakkafex are our version of Assbacks. 4-6 for every list.
Wait, have MC devourers changed?

Rumored to have doubled their shots.

Deathspitters remain unchanged besides price.

Devs are 6 shots but otherwise unchanged besides price.

Deathspitter have -1 AP. Devs have just way more dice.

**Spoletta**

Guys am i the only one that is thinking about a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive?

40 S5 shots +1 to wound and damage 2?

Plus 8 S5 shots damage 2?

Yeah, no AP but something has to pass!

**Marmatag**

Traceoftoxin wrote:
Statistically, 4x MC devourers are superior to 4x MC Deathspitters against every target in the game except T7 3+, and even then it's only ~10% better.

4x MC devourers are superior to TL Asscans against every target.

Dakkafex are our version of Assbacks. 4-6 for every list.

Because 2x Devourers per fex is now 24 shots. That's pretty nifty. But at 18".

Comparing to Razorback (which doesn't move), and neither has access to rerolls:

Against 2+ save, the razorback wins, 33% more effective.
Against 3+ save, it's even.
Against 4+ save, the dakkafex is 13% more effective.
Against 5+ save, the dakkafex is 20% more effective.
Against 6+ save, the dakkafex is 25% more effective.

Built purely for this dakka and nothing else in its utility belt, the Dakkafex is cheaper, as well, but doesn't transport troops, although that hardly matters.

Solid buff. Gonna "spam" these.

**Spoletta**

I was right!

3Cp adrenaline surge

end of fight phase. select a nid unit from army, can immediately fight again

We do have a stratagem to fight twice!

This makes everything SOOOO easy!

**Tyran**

Spoletta wrote:
Guys am i the only one that is thinking about a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive?

40 S5 shots +1 to wound and damage 2?

Plus 8 S5 shots damage 2?

Yeah, no AP but something has to pass!

Unless the fleshborer hive has been changed, two dakkafexes will do the same job better.

The one that seems good is the Acid Spray with 2D6 shots.

**Spoletta**

Tyran wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Guys am i the only one that is thinking about a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive?

40 S5 shots +1 to wound and damage 2?

Plus 8 S5 shots damage 2?

Yeah, no AP but something has to pass!

Unless the fleshborer hive has been changed, two dakkafexes will do the same job better.

The one that seems good is the Acid Spray with 2D6 shots.

Going to math this out, gimme a second.

**Marmatag**

Two dakkafexes is 48 strength 6 ap0 1dmg shots at 18" for under 200 points.

I see the Tyrannofex as a longer range shooter with his big str gun.

**Niiai**

Spoletta wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Guys am i the only one that is thinking about a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive?

40 S5 shots +1 to wound and damage 2?

Plus 8 S5 shots damage 2?

Yeah, no AP but something has to pass!

Unless the fleshborer hive has been changed, two dakkafexes will do the same job better.

The one that seems good is the Acid Spray with 2D6 shots.

Going to math this out, gimme a second.

You might consider this as well:

-1cp scorch bugs
shoot phase
seelect nid, +1 to wound for all feshborer or fleshborer hive attacks

Also, what hive fleet do you use? Krono with re-rolling 1 seems superior with the hive. Also, remember the acid spray is 4D6 when he stands stil. Ouch. Could be a good way to take down airplanes.

**Insectum7**

The tunneling strategem for Jorgunmandr seems great. At the moment I think that settles my Hive Fleet choice to start out with, and I see a Trygon in my near future.

**Spoletta**

Fleshborer Hive +1 to wound vs devourer:

T3 modifier: 1 (2+ vs 2+)
T4 Modifier: 1,25 (2+ vs 3+)
T5 modifier: 1 (3+ vs 3+)
T6 modifier: 1 (4+ vs 4+)
T7 modifier: 1,5 (4+ vs 5+)
T8 modifier: 1,5 (4+ vs 5+)

Stinger vs devourer:

T3 modifier: 0,8 (3+ vs 2+)
T4 Modifier: 1 (3+ vs 3+)
T5 modifier: 0,75 (4+ vs 3+)
T6 modifier: 0,66 (5+ vs 4+)
T7 modifier: 1 (5+ vs 5+)
T8 modifier: 1 (5+ vs 5+)

You get 40 shots of the first and 8 of the second, versus 48 shots of devourer. This translates to:

Against T3 the Tfex inflicts 97,5% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T4 the Tfex inflicts 121,8% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T5 the Tfex inflicts 96,9% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T6 the Tfex inflicts 95,9% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T7 the Tfex inflicts 143,7% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T8 the Tfex inflicts 143,7% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes

The Tfex is a LOT better against high T targets, better against MEQ and slightly worse against the other targets.

Save is not considered since all weapons have no AP.

Naturally this is without the +1 damage stratagem (which you can't use on both Cfexes at the same time), in that case feel free to double those figures.
The Tfex is less mobile, but is much more deadlier.

Edit: Stinger salvo is AP1, but i don't want to make all the cases for all armor values and it doesn't change much the result.

**Niiai**

Spoletta wrote:
Fleshborer Hive +1 to wound vs devourer:

T3 modifier: 1 (2+ vs 2+)
T4 Modifier: 1,25 (2+ vs 3+)
T5 modifier: 1 (3+ vs 3+)
T6 modifier: 1 (4+ vs 4+)
T7 modifier: 1,5 (4+ vs 5+)
T8 modifier: 1,5 (4+ vs 5+)

Stinger vs devourer:

T3 modifier: 0,8 (3+ vs 2+)
T4 Modifier: 1 (3+ vs 3+)
T5 modifier: 0,75 (4+ vs 3+)
T6 modifier: 0,66 (5+ vs 4+)
T7 modifier: 1 (5+ vs 5+)
T8 modifier: 1 (5+ vs 5+)

You get 40 shots of the first and 8 of the second, versus 48 shots of devourer. This translates to:

Against T3 the Tfex inflicts 97,5% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T4 the Tfex inflicts 121,8% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T5 the Tfex inflicts 96,9% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T6 the Tfex inflicts 95,9% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T7 the Tfex inflicts 143,7% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes
Against T8 the Tfex inflicts 143,7% of the wounds of 2 dakkafes

The Tfex is a LOT better against high T targets, better against MEQ and slightly worse against the other targets.

Save is not considered since all weapons have no AP.

Naturally this is without the +1 damage stratagem (which you can't use on both Cfexes at the same time), in that case feel free to double those figures.
The Tfex is less mobile, but is much more deadlier.

Edit: Stinger salvo is AP1, but i don't want to make all the cases for all armor values and it doesn't change much the result.

But shurely you would need to divide the resoult by the cost of the unit. Witch we don't have at the moment.

**Spoletta**

Niiai wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
Guys am i the only one that is thinking about a tyrannofex with fleshborer hive?

40 S5 shots +1 to wound and damage 2?

Plus 8 S5 shots damage 2?

Yeah, no AP but something has to pass!

Unless the fleshborer hive has been changed, two dakkafexes will do the same job better.

The one that seems good is the Acid Spray with 2D6 shots.

Going to math this out, gimme a second.

You might consider this as well:

-1cp scorch bugs
shoot phase
seelect nid, +1 to wound for all feshborer or fleshborer hive attacks

Also, what hive fleet do you use? Krono with re-rolling 1 seems superior with the hive. Also, remember the acid spray is 4D6 when he stands stil. Ouch. Could be a good way to take down airplanes.

With +1 damage those 4d6 become 10,5 unsaved wounds on a T7 3+ target. There is also around 1 wound from the stinger salvos (with -1 to hit). The average is quite close to downing anything flimsier than a storm raven, and even there with a bit of luck (or a reroll on the worst of those 4d6) you can take it down.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiai wrote:

But shurely you would need to divide the resoult by the cost of the unit. Witch we don't have at the moment.

We actually have a lot of informations on this.
2 dakkafexes clock around 200 points and an hive Tfex is around 225.

What instead we should consider is that for 10 points those dakkafexes can get a +1 to BS, which makes everything better.

**Marmatag**

I'm still super concerned our named HQs are going to be restricted to a specific hive fleet.

**Tyran**

Marmatag wrote:
I'm still super concerned our named HQs are going to be restricted to a specific hive fleet.

They have restricted warlord traits (which sucks), but as far as I'm aware they aren't restricted to hive fleets (or at the very least the Swarmlord isn't).

**Marmatag**

Tyran wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
I'm still super concerned our named HQs are going to be restricted to a specific hive fleet.

They have restricted warlord traits (which sucks), but as far as I'm aware they aren't restricted to hive fleets (or at the very least the Swarmlord isn't).

How do you know for certain? If the Swarmlord isn't then Old One Eye probably isn't either.

**Tyran**

Marmatag wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
I'm still super concerned our named HQs are going to be restricted to a specific hive fleet.

They have restricted warlord traits (which sucks), but as far as I'm aware they aren't restricted to hive fleets (or at the very least the Swarmlord isn't).

How do you know for certain? If the Swarmlord isn't then Old One Eye probably isn't either.

The keywords of the Swarmlord was something that was explicitly asked and answered in the leaks.

**Xenomancers**

Marmatag wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
I'm still super concerned our named HQs are going to be restricted to a specific hive fleet.

They have restricted warlord traits (which sucks), but as far as I'm aware they aren't restricted to hive fleets (or at the very least the Swarmlord isn't).

How do you know for certain? If the Swarmlord isn't then Old One Eye probably isn't either.

Old one eye I could see being restricted - though I have no idea what hive fleet he's rumored to come from. The swarmlord though - should not be a unique character - every hive fleet has swarm-lords. He might have a restricted warlord trait though.

**Spoletta**

It has already been confirmed, our named chars are not restricted to any fleet. They are restricted in the warlord traits though.

**Marmatag**

Xenomancers wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
I'm still super concerned our named HQs are going to be restricted to a specific hive fleet.

They have restricted warlord traits (which sucks), but as far as I'm aware they aren't restricted to hive fleets (or at the very least the Swarmlord isn't).

How do you know for certain? If the Swarmlord isn't then Old One Eye probably isn't either.

Old one eye I could see being restricted - though I have no idea what hive fleet he's rumored to come from. The swarmlord though - should not be a unique character - every hive fleet has swarm-lords. He might have a restricted warlord trait though.

The Swarmlord does have a restricted warlord trait. But i actually like it.

The question with these new army tactics though, is it 1 formation like a brigade, or two detachments, for separate hive fleet tactics.

**Xenomancers**

Tyran wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
I'm still super concerned our named HQs are going to be restricted to a specific hive fleet.

They have restricted warlord traits (which sucks), but as far as I'm aware they aren't restricted to hive fleets (or at the very least the Swarmlord isn't).

How do you know for certain? If the Swarmlord isn't then Old One Eye probably isn't either.

The keywords of the Swarmlord was something that was explicitly asked and answered in the leaks.

Being a named character doesn't restrict your use to a single hive fleet - that is what he is worried about.

**Marmatag**

Xenomancers wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Tyran wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
I'm still super concerned our named HQs are going to be restricted to a specific hive fleet.

They have restricted warlord traits (which sucks), but as far as I'm aware they aren't restricted to hive fleets (or at the very least the Swarmlord isn't).

How do you know for certain? If the Swarmlord isn't then Old One Eye probably isn't either.

The keywords of the Swarmlord was something that was explicitly asked and answered in the leaks.

Being a named character doesn't restrict your use to a single hive fleet - that is what he is worried about.

Yes in a general sense.

For ex, is Eldrad restricted to a specific craftworld? that would be a good indicator.

**KurtAngle2**

OOE and Swarmlord are not tied to any Fleet and that has been confirmed several times