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Was just curious whether there was ever any height variation among your standard brothers in the fluff, or if they're all engineered to duplicates of each other in terms of build.
Again, i don't mean Primaris or Primarchs, etc.

Yes. They can.
The question is, how much?


Only miniatures are "clones".

The Space Wolf marine 'Ranulf' was noted as being a very big marine, rivaling the Primarch Leman Russ himself, in old lore. So yeah, Space Marines can vary in size.

On a related note, I have a feeling my chapter will soon be slightly shorter than the average Space Marine.

Yes, but they probably vary in size much less then Imperial Guards, Scions and Sisters and even less then the general population. Space Marine hormonal level is tightly controled which should homogenise their height and weight. They probably all have the same body type too.

Very much so. They will always be larger than normal humans but it can vary between "not much bigger than normal humans" to "Humongous Terminator Daddies" level.

Don't forget the average Space Marine is only 7' tall, they are just exceptionally wide and close to a ton of pure muscle and dense bone. Their armour is what tips them above the 8' mark.

Canonically you get Astartes like Pausinius and Abbadon who are very big, and then you get short guys like Little Horus.

This is actually the reason that "I am Alpharius" works. Alpharius & Omega were known to be the smallest Primarchs, but still quite large. Their Legion, conveniently enough, comprised some of the largest Astartes.
These 2 factors combined meant that the twin Primarchs were about the same size as their Legionnaires and could thus blend into the squads.

-

I vaguely remember a deathwatch novel that had a member of the Imperial Fists who was quite short. He compensated by bulking up until he was forbade for fear of another one of his endless armor re-fittings.

Yup. Tarik torgaddon used to joke about abaddon being too big to fit in terminator armour.. Which is odd as abaddon did wear terminator armour. Maybe he had a special big and tall version.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yup. Tarik torgaddon used to joke about abaddon being too big to fit in terminator armour.. Which is odd as abaddon did wear terminator armour. Maybe he had a special big and tall version.

As Captain of the First Company of the Most Favoured Legion I assume Abaddon had access to more customised armour than rank and file troops.

IIRC one of the novels mentions he wears a cusotmized Cataphracti armor.

Very much so.. There's several listed pretty massive space wolves. Hagar from inquisitor serris, and the champion of logan. He was huge before being a marine. Now a monster.

Grimor is not listed as exactly short even among marines.

Hagar was strong even for a marine and easily one handed a thunder hammer, in power Armour and threw it once pasting up a few cultests like jello. Fat almost, but massively strong.

Abaddon was a big guy, he was not a normal sized marine and got boosted by chaos so he definitely a a monster now.

Marine size varies fairly greatly.

If you recall the fluff on creating a space marine, you'll remember different aspirants have different rates of rejection/acceptance of the geneseed. There are acceptable bounds of how much/little an effect geneseed can have on an aspirant before he is rejected. This suggests the growth geneseed can impart varies tremendously between aspirants depending on how well suited they are to the geneseed they receive.

The Space Wolves have a fair bit of variance, due to the tendency to be recruited later in life and from the tribes rather than training camps the Fenrisians have a fair variety of sizes before they get the gene-seed, the gene-seed grows them by a percentage so bigger Fenrisians become bigger Space Wolves and smaller Fenrisians become smaller Space Wolves.
Arjac Rockfist and Canis Wolfborn were noted for being bigger than Space Marines as ‘normal’ humans so when they became Space Marines themselves they were bloody huge.

Not sure I agree with the space wolves being recruited later in life Dakkawolf. yeah sure the space wolves recruit "adult warriors" among Fenresians, but I always interpreted it as "fenresians tend to consider you an adault at age 12+ or so.

Probably dependant on geneseed aswell, the AL was noted to be freakishly large whilest their primarchs were on the short end of the spectrum, making it possible for AL legionaires to pose as their Primarchs. (however this makes also for some rather confusing scenarios considering that freakishly Large space marines should be even more sticking out then normally so how the hell are AL so damn sneaky?)


BL seems to have had a more "normal" size except Abbigail, which seemed about the hight of Horus, and was rumored to be a clone.

There are several Wolves as noted that are huge. (probably the fenrisian genes hitting through)

The average is about 7' in power armor, but you'll get some a bit shorter or taller. And there must be a recommended minimum and maximum for what is allowed - techmarines can adjust the armor but building a custom suit for a particularly short/tall/wide rookie might not be seen as a wise investment. The guy should also stay within acceptable limits so you can deploy him in a drop pod or have him ride a Rhino. A marine who is so huge he can't use a marine transport is useless, though today they can maybe Primaris him and try to keep him from growing too much more...

Still, there's very little chance that anyone mistakes them for anything else than a Space Marine.

BrianDavion wrote:
Not sure I agree with the space wolves being recruited later in life Dakkawolf. yeah sure the space wolves recruit "adult warriors" among Fenresians, but I always interpreted it as "fenresians tend to consider you an adault at age 12+ or so.

Space wolves planet and dangers mean they take life at a very diffrent pace, warriors, some even are having kids oerrt early.

Life is very much more intense on Fenris. Especially when the planet, creatures and more are out to kill you and populated by multiple alpha preadetors. Even legit, Russ honest Trolls and more.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Very much so. They will always be larger than normal humans but it can vary between "not much bigger than normal humans" to "Humongous Terminator Daddies" level.

Don't forget the average Space Marine is only 7' tall, they are just exceptionally wide and close to a ton of pure muscle and dense bone. Their armour is what tips them above the 8' mark.

7 feet is huge actually. A grizzly bear is 8 feet tall when it stands.

 Frazzled wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Very much so. They will always be larger than normal humans but it can vary between "not much bigger than normal humans" to "Humongous Terminator Daddies" level.

Don't forget the average Space Marine is only 7' tall, they are just exceptionally wide and close to a ton of pure muscle and dense bone. Their armour is what tips them above the 8' mark.

7 feet is huge actually. A grizzly bear is 8 feet tall when it stands.

Here's a easy visual.

The Marines are much much larger in size, and bulk. There larger in scale not just height, but everything is bigger in comparison and scaled up even out of proportion in some elament.

This also shows why primarchs at time where regarded as demi gods. They where utterly so far removed they could be classed no other way.

Let's not mention some things lol. That debate been done too many times!

Also to scale vs the likes of a custodes etc. Granted all can vary in size. Valador, thr surviving thunder warriors in outcast dead and others where not thr avarage size.

It's also worth noting that, in a universe with greatly varying planets, space marines will grow to different sizes depending on whether they are on high gravity or low gravity worlds. Not to the same degree as ratlings/ogryns, as that is evolution as much as adaptation. but the gravity of their homeworld will have some effect on their ultimate growth.

 jhe90 wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Very much so. They will always be larger than normal humans but it can vary between "not much bigger than normal humans" to "Humongous Terminator Daddies" level.

Don't forget the average Space Marine is only 7' tall, they are just exceptionally wide and close to a ton of pure muscle and dense bone. Their armour is what tips them above the 8' mark.

7 feet is huge actually. A grizzly bear is 8 feet tall when it stands.

Here's a easy visual.

The Marines are much much larger in size, and bulk. There larger in scale not just height, but everything is bigger in comparison and scaled up even out of proportion in some elament.

This also shows why primarchs at time where regarded as demi gods. They where utterly so far removed they could be classed no other way.

Let's not mention some things lol. That debate been done too many times!

Also to scale vs the likes of a custodes etc. Granted all can vary in size. Valador, thr surviving thunder warriors in outcast dead and others where not thr avarage size.

That image is so utterly incorrect on so many levels I don't know where to begin...

More reasonable size chart:



The Emperor isn't the size of a Dreadnought.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
More reasonable size chart:

Spoiler:

The Emperor isn't the size of a Dreadnought.

In fairness the emperor is whatever size he damn well feels like.


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 jhe90 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Not sure I agree with the space wolves being recruited later in life Dakkawolf. yeah sure the space wolves recruit "adult warriors" among Fenresians, but I always interpreted it as "fenresians tend to consider you an adault at age 12+ or so.

Space wolves planet and dangers mean they take life at a very diffrent pace, warriors, some even are having kids oerrt early.

Life is very much more intense on Fenris. Especially when the planet, creatures and more are out to kill you and populated by multiple alpha preadetors. Even legit, Russ honest Trolls and more.

it's really not that unuseal anyway, most socities at fenris' level of development tended to basicly consider you an adult the minute you hit puberty

BrianDavion wrote:
it's really not that unuseal anyway, most socities at fenris' level of development tended to basicly consider you an adult the minute you hit puberty

Not really, though in those cases where we have sufficient sources they do tend to break down life stages differently.


I can't get enough of the size chart where someone doesn't understand scale at all and has basically just increased every stage by around the same percentage.

Yeah, size varies. A problem with a miniatures game being a very visual medium is that information is through the models- an easy way to show that a model is more powerful model is to make it 'bigger' to show its relative importance. Cawl and the new chaos lord on monster are symptoms of this.

Lascannons are scaled up lasguns, primarchs are scaled up marines. This has fed back into the lore to some extent.

On the flipside, models made from the same kit will tend to have the same size, which gives us the impression that the universe is populated by carbon copies.

My headcanon(directly contradicting what we are told) is that Primaris aren't taller on average(but the new models are) - it's just a new suit of armour and some internal additions.

The main narrative thrust of the Primaris should be frozen OG loyalist legionnaires introduced to the primogenitor/successor chapters and the cultural shift they've undergone from the legions. That's far more interesting and realistic than 'Tall bois with plasmaguns show up, you cant get in their floating landraider'.

In the same way I reject the idea that all schola progeniums force commissars to murder their best friend.


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nfe wrote:


I can't get enough of the size chart where someone doesn't understand scale at all and has basically just increased every stage by around the same percentage.

I'd love to see the same thing done with conscripts< guardsmen<stormtroopers><Ogryns><junior officers><senior officers><commisssars><lord solars><Lord commissars>

Tyberos the red wake is another large space marine.


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I don't like the idea of the emperor being massive. I think him being smaller would actually be better in the lore. Not tiny but more like an above average human, with his intellect, ability and psychic might being what makes him the master of mankind.

5'9 is average height?

Where? Narnia?

 Excommunicatus wrote:
5'9 is average height?

Where? Narnia?

https://www.healthline.com/health/average-height-for-men#u.s.-height

"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)the average age-adjusted height for American men 20 years old and up is 69.1 inches (175.4 centimeters). That’s about 5 feet 9 inches tall.

This number comes from data published in December 2018. The data was collected between 1999 and 2016 as part of a National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey.

The analytic sample included 47,233 men and women, all at least 20 years of age. Participants reported their ages, races, and whether they were of Hispanic origin. The average height of 5 feet 9 inches takes all groups into account."

There's a chart giving comparisons to other national averages ranging from 5' 4.25"(the Philipines) to 5' 11.9"(the Nethrlands). The UK is 5' 9.9", Canada is 5' 10.1", which Mexico at 5' 6.5".

Remember that the term "Average Height" just gives you an area of about where people in that region are. In fact, adjustable seats exist because no one is actually "average", a fact that caused the deaths of many fighter pilots before they decided adjustable seats needed to be a thing.

I'm 5'9" so I always get a kick out of the whole 'average guy' thing.