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The wonderful, wonderful people at GW appear to have made Honour Guard, Chapter Champions and Ancients, Ultramarines only. The Honour Guard unit now only appears under the Ultramarine listing in the website, being listed as 'Ultramarine Honour Guard', sorely lacking from the new Whitescars page, and the new Ultramarine supplement leaks include them, implying they aren't in the main book.

The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

Is that Gman at 336? With a drop that big I think it is safe to say he has been reworked a little bit. Kinda happy about that. I hope he can still be a big force multipler in a different way. Plus I can include other chapters in the army now without feeling like I am hindering myself.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Is that Gman at 336?

Gman also appears to be nerfed here

Oh so he is pretty much worthless now. Great. LOL. Hes not even rerolling his own wounds in CC now. Just remove him as an entry. Hey though - he just got a lot better at buffing knights. If this is the route they were gonna take with him. He should be a 12" aura for his ultramarine buffs. Still a lord of war as well...calgar has ascended!

He's changed quite a bit.

-Cost is 330
-Hand of Dominion is Damage 4
-He gets Angels of Death, meaning more attacks, Doctrines, benefits from CT
-He re rolls all hits now, that's stronger.
-Wound re rolls is a massive nerf.


Biggest Problem is that a Chapter Master and Lt are now by far better the choice because they are the mandatory HQs in your list and don't require a seperate detachment.

He is a friendly Ultramarine unit within 6" of himself??

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.

And most guns that Guilliman was helping was wounding most things on 3s at the least, with the exception being Imperial Knights.

It depends on how bad it is depending if Chapter Masters just reroll all failed hits or if they get all hit rolls like Guilliman has.

 Ishagu wrote:
He's changed quite a bit.

Cost is 330

-Hand of Dominion is Damage 4
-He gets Angels of Death, meaning more attacks, Doctrines, benefits from CT

He re rolls all hits now, that's stronger.

Wound re rolls is a massive nerf.


Biggest Problem is that a Chapter Master and Lt are now by far better the choice because they are the mandatory HQs in your list and don't require a seperate detachment.

Good catch on ALL HITS - however - all CM might have this ability too. So overall that is an okay consideration.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Oh so he is pretty much worthless now. Great. LOL. Hes not even rerolling his own wounds in CC now. Just remove him as an entry.

Can we remove him from the fluff too? Put him back in the stasis or something?


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 Ishagu wrote:
The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

But it is super annoying that they steal units that used to be shared.

 Crazyterran wrote:
He is a friendly Ultramarine unit within 6" of himself??

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.

And most guns that Guilliman was helping was wounding most things on 3s at the least, with the exception being Imperial Knights.

It depends on how bad it is depending if Chapter Masters just reroll all failed hits or if they get all hit rolls like Guilliman has.

With a bonus attack as long as hes wounding on 3's the numbers will be similar. Also the hand of dominion might actually be used at times to wound better. I am pretty much in shock though. Hell shoot a little better I suppose and 3 CP bonus might be more useful now if stratagems are good. I wanna see his warlord trait. If that god buffed to doctrine manipulation then we might still be in business.

 Crazyterran wrote:

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.

I'm almost certain that the Chapter Master reroll will be similarly reworded.

 Crimson wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Oh so he is pretty much worthless now. Great. LOL. Hes not even rerolling his own wounds in CC now. Just remove him as an entry.

Can we remove him from the fluff too? Put him back in the stasis or something?


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 Ishagu wrote:
The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

But it is super annoying that they steal units that used to be shared.

Heresy! You are talking about the lord commander of the entire imperium!

 Crimson wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.

I'm almost certain that the Chapter Master reroll will be similarly reworded.

Hm, maybe. It seems like a way to make Guilliman just a bit better without how crazy better he used to be, making actual options in Ultramarines lists rather than just Guilliman.

I really want to see how Chaplains have changed, and how they buff things. Cassius might actually be worth taking for once!

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Oh so he is pretty much worthless now. Great. LOL. Hes not even rerolling his own wounds in CC now. Just remove him as an entry.

Can we remove him from the fluff too? Put him back in the stasis or something?


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 Ishagu wrote:
The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

But it is super annoying that they steal units that used to be shared.

Heresy! You are talking about the lord commander of the entire imperium!

Yeah, it's removing units from other people's armies, which I'm not okay with

The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.

What's the source on these pics?

 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.

amen

 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.

Ha!

 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.

This is true - and now bringing him doesn't make you a "power gamer".

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.

This is true - and now bringing him doesn't make you a "power gamer".

What if he's brought with Knights?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.

This is true - and now bringing him doesn't make you a "power gamer".

What if he's brought with Knights?

I was doing that before and I will surely be doing it now. At 330 that is 70 more points of knights on the table. That is pretty huge.

I'd consider that powergaming.

Nothing wrong with that, so long as you ain't seal clubbing, but yeah. He was, in relation to Knights, buffed.

 Crazyterran wrote:
He is a friendly Ultramarine unit within 6" of himself??

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.



And most guns that Guilliman was helping was wounding most things on 3s at the least, with the exception being Imperial Knights.

It depends on how bad it is depending if Chapter Masters just reroll all failed hits or if they get all hit rolls like Guilliman has.

That depends on which version of the FAQ you're dealing with. They went with rerolls before mods, then that broke some of the rerolls like ATSKNF so they revised it somehow such that all fails means after modifiers or some such. I gave up.



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 Crimson wrote:


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 Ishagu wrote:
The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

But it is super annoying that they steal units that used to be shared.

Its super annoying they stole units that used to not be shared.


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 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.

Its cute that you think so. When has constant crying and complaining about the other guy's toys ever finally ended? They're just going to complain about something else. He allows Plasma Rerolls. He manipulates Doctrines. Whatever the new gimmick will be.


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What's going to be interesting is the 12"/6" circle. Ultramarines outside of 6" but inside of 12" are still IMPERIUM so they can reroll 1's?

The guilliman nerf is super good, because he's absolutely still viable to take but isn't an auto-include either. Want to take an ultramarines-only list? Take him. Want to do soup? Take calgar instead. Want to do another chapter? Now you're not pressured to take UM because they have a demi-god available to them.

Also it's kinda interesting he's the exact same price as just taking Calgar and Tigurius together. Pretty good way of doing it!

Is he still a MONSTER, not benefiting from his own chapter tactic ?

 p5freak wrote:
Is he still a MONSTER, not benefiting from his own chapter tactic ?

chapter tactics now apply to EVERYTHING

 cole1114 wrote:
The guilliman nerf is super good, because he's absolutely still viable to take but isn't an auto-include either. Want to take an ultramarines-only list? Take him. Want to do soup? Take calgar instead. Want to do another chapter? Now you're not pressured to take UM because they have a demi-god available to them.

Also it's kinda interesting he's the exact same price as just taking Calgar and Tigurius together. Pretty good way of doing it!

Why would I take Calgar instead of Guilliman in soup? Guilliman still has a Reroll 1's for IMPERIUM And Calgar does not.

His cost is actually 350.

I actually think he's too expensive now. If he was a HQ and not a LoW I'd be more supportive.

The problem is you can get the same auras for cheaper. And yes, he is good in combat however he's also a monster that can't ride in a vehicle, get around fast or deploy outside of normal restrictions.

Yes, some niche' uses with Knights aren't affected but he's less useful with Astartes.

Gulliman might be more useful depending on the changes the chaplains and the new librarian powers. if they're changed to the point where you "really want a chappy and a libby" then obviously it changes the calculus.

 Ishagu wrote:
His cost is actually 350.

I actually think he's too expensive now. If he was a HQ and not a LoW I'd be more supportive.

The problem is you can get the same auras for cheaper. And yes, he is good in combat however he's also a monster that can't ride in a vehicle, get around fast or deploy outside of normal restrictions.

Yes, some niche' uses with Knights aren't affected but he's less useful with Astartes.

You're not getting a 12" aura for cheaper. 12 inch radius is 450 square inches or so. Even if you're not soup'ing a 6 inch radius is 113 square inches or so, you need 3 captains to cover the same area, Plus Lieutenants. Plus base size is going to add even more.