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Made in us
Calm Celestian




Tacoma, WA, USA

At the risk of point out the obvious, "no models, no rules". The Honour Guard models, like the Victrix Guard models have modeled on Ultramarines details. They therefore are Ultramarine models rather than Space Marine models. I guess someone must have noticed this during the Codex development cycle and "fixed" the error.

Silly GW Policy.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I'm sure if you guys plan to be reasonable like me and just send a coherent email to GW's rules team that can get rectified. I mean I'm fine with the Primaris ones being Ultra Exclusive but the manlet ones should just be available to everyone.

However they're still an Index unit as <CHAPTER> so shouldn't that be fine?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






UK

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm sure if you guys plan to be reasonable like me and just send a coherent email to GW's rules team that can get rectified. I mean I'm fine with the Primaris ones being Ultra Exclusive but the manlet ones should just be available to everyone.

However they're still an Index unit as <CHAPTER> so shouldn't that be fine?


That's what I will rely on for mine:


   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 alextroy wrote:
At the risk of point out the obvious, "no models, no rules". The Honour Guard models, like the Victrix Guard models have modeled on Ultramarines details. They therefore are Ultramarine models rather than Space Marine models. I guess someone must have noticed this during the Codex development cycle and "fixed" the error.

Except there are models:

Spoiler:
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





forgeworld doesn't count

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
forgeworld doesn't count

Why not? It wasn't some stupid, broken in some way FW unit, it was models for codex unit. So, you have second source of HG, and in any case, it was easy to remove omegas from GW one (or scorpions from FW one) and make it any chapter you wanted. Deleting HG after it was in people's armies for four editions is kinda gakky move.

Funnily enough, I toyed with converting some primaris to HG because their two wounds make them primaris statline melee unit. Good I was lazy with that
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





That is annoying, especially since I held on to a shred of hope that Chronus would be reworked as a generic astartes tank commander. Pretty frustrating that Ultras get so much but meh.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

Quasistellar wrote:
That is annoying, especially since I held on to a shred of hope that Chronus would be reworked as a generic astartes tank commander. Pretty frustrating that Ultras get so much but meh.


To be fair, in the 5th edition codex where a lot of the UM characters were introduced, you were encouraged to file the names off and use them in whatever chapter you wanted. They were just fluffed for Ultras, as they were the generic showcase chapter. But nothing prevented you from having an Iron Hands Chronos, or a Ravenguard Talion. Or field Lysander as your Ultramarine 1st company captain for that mater...

In those days your named characters set your chapter tactics, so you didn’t need to worry about how special rules overlapped as much. These days it might be a little tricky, but I agree that a lot of characters could be made more generic to allow them to be fielded in more armies.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

Honestly, the Space Marine bestiary of units was so overstuffed (even before they started adding Primaris units) that splitting off a few of them to be chapter specific is a good move IMO. It might suck for those non-UM players who have Honor Guard, but it isn't like you can't still use the Index entry or just use those models as unit leaders for one of the many, many other Elite units the Codex: Marines still includes. You're models are still cool and usable

Even with some of these one-off options moved to Chapter specific supplements, you still have far more unit datahseets than most Xenos Codices.

-

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/15 14:02:20


   
Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




Space marines have more troops than Coven DE has units total. They'll be fine.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Drager wrote:
Space marines have more troops than Coven DE has units total. They'll be fine.

Ah, yes, old sour grapes drive-by. You know this is not a topic about xenos, yes?

Also, funnily enough, I seem to recall the intensity of DE whine after they lost a handful of units that never had any models. Common human decency would mandate sympathizing with people who lost units with models, especially given the stink raise by DE in much less severe case above, but what do I know
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

 Irbis wrote:
Drager wrote:
Space marines have more troops than Coven DE has units total. They'll be fine.

Ah, yes, old sour grapes drive-by. You know this is not a topic about xenos, yes?

Also, funnily enough, I seem to recall the intensity of DE whine after they lost a handful of units that never had any models. Common human decency would mandate sympathizing with people who lost units with models, especially given the stink raise by DE in much less severe case above, but what do I know
Well considering the alternative would be to create YET MORE new units to be Chapter specific, I greatly appreciate that GW is going this route instead.
Make existing units better (at least playable) and move very few units to be Chapter specific to give those Chapters some more personality

-

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Galef wrote:
Honestly, the Space Marine bestiary of units was so overstuffed (even before they started adding Primaris units) that splitting off a few of them to be chapter specific is a good move IMO.


I suppose I would agree if they weren't all split off into one specific codex chapter that doesn't really fit the fluff as well as another.

Chronus-type character should be Iron Hands or Imperial Fists

Telion-type character should be Raven Guard

Tigurius-type character should be White Scars

Etc.
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Ishagu wrote:The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.


No, they don't. The entire point of Ultramarines was to be the bog standard. The other Chapters were unique in their structure. Ultramarines should be like every OTHER Codex Chapter.

Ishagu wrote:The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.


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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

Back in the day, the Ultramarines had their own codex.

They threw a dart at the board and Ultramarines got saddled with the 'other' chapters.

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

 Crazyterran wrote:
Back in the day, the Ultramarines had their own codex.

They threw a dart at the board and Ultramarines got saddled with the 'other' chapters.


2nd Edition. To this very day you have idiot gamers who refer to any of the vanilla Marines armies as Ultramarines. I don't play Ultramarines, I play Crimson Fists. You wouldn't walk up to someone from the 4th Infantry Division and say "Oh, you're 1st Infantry!", not without at the very least getting a lengthy ass chewing over the intricate heritage of the Division as well as the significant of the patch.

I hate 2nd Ed. for that book, and I hate Mat Ward for basically fanwanking to that book via the 5th Ed. Codex.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Just Tony wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
Back in the day, the Ultramarines had their own codex.

They threw a dart at the board and Ultramarines got saddled with the 'other' chapters.


2nd Edition. To this very day you have idiot gamers who refer to any of the vanilla Marines armies as Ultramarines. I don't play Ultramarines, I play Crimson Fists. You wouldn't walk up to someone from the 4th Infantry Division and say "Oh, you're 1st Infantry!", not without at the very least getting a lengthy ass chewing over the intricate heritage of the Division as well as the significant of the patch.

I hate 2nd Ed. for that book, and I hate Mat Ward for basically fanwanking to that book via the 5th Ed. Codex.


Honestly my first reaction to hearing about the supplements was this is actually going to be good for Ultramarines fans AND non Ultramarine space marine fans alike as it'll allow GW to give Ultramarines more background info and really flesh them out (without having to use them purely as a "typical chapter") well also allowing GW to devote more time to the other chapters as well. Iron Hands for example no longer have to be reduced to a paragraph to a page of info and no more. and are already seeing the benifits by having a character coming up

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




This is one of the weirder choices I've seen GW go with since most chapters have some form of honor guard and to build them you would need to buy a space marine kit.
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Just give Command Squads the option to upgrade themselves in similar ways. Done.

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 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Irbis wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
forgeworld doesn't count

Why not? It wasn't some stupid, broken in some way FW unit, it was models for codex unit. So, you have second source of HG, and in any case, it was easy to remove omegas from GW one (or scorpions from FW one) and make it any chapter you wanted. Deleting HG after it was in people's armies for four editions is kinda gakky move.

Funnily enough, I toyed with converting some primaris to HG because their two wounds make them primaris statline melee unit. Good I was lazy with that


Because Forgeworld doesn't count for GW books, and GW Books don't count for Forgeworld.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sir Heckington wrote:
The wonderful, wonderful people at GW appear to have made Honour Guard, Chapter Champions and Ancients, Ultramarines only. The Honour Guard unit now only appears under the Ultramarine listing in the website, being listed as 'Ultramarine Honour Guard', sorely lacking from the new Whitescars page, and the new Ultramarine supplement leaks include them, implying they aren't in the main book.



Honor Guard started as UM only. They came in a package with PapaSmurf in his Terminator Armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quasistellar wrote:
That is annoying, especially since I held on to a shred of hope that Chronus would be reworked as a generic astartes tank commander. Pretty frustrating that Ultras get so much but meh.


Yeah, I haven't seen any leaks for White Scars dudes other than Kor'sarro. I'm going to feel pretty sorry for them if they have to spend the same 60 bucks or so to get one freakin data sheet. They should have released CM/Cap/Libby/Chappie for each chapter, if it's just use the generic commander model with X options and we'll get you a model with molded iconography in a year or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Just Tony wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
Back in the day, the Ultramarines had their own codex.

They threw a dart at the board and Ultramarines got saddled with the 'other' chapters.


You wouldn't walk up to someone from the 4th Infantry Division and say "Oh, you're 1st Infantry!"


No, but I would if they were wearing MARPAT just to screw with them.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/16 05:47:22


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





white scars also get a Khan on a bike, which is a biker captain with a special weapon,

that said, I'd only really buy the supplements if you are a big fan of the chapter ayway so the fluff is thus worthit.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Charging Dragon Prince





West Lafayette, IN

Breton wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
forgeworld doesn't count

Why not? It wasn't some stupid, broken in some way FW unit, it was models for codex unit. So, you have second source of HG, and in any case, it was easy to remove omegas from GW one (or scorpions from FW one) and make it any chapter you wanted. Deleting HG after it was in people's armies for four editions is kinda gakky move.

Funnily enough, I toyed with converting some primaris to HG because their two wounds make them primaris statline melee unit. Good I was lazy with that


Because Forgeworld doesn't count for GW books, and GW Books don't count for Forgeworld.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sir Heckington wrote:
The wonderful, wonderful people at GW appear to have made Honour Guard, Chapter Champions and Ancients, Ultramarines only. The Honour Guard unit now only appears under the Ultramarine listing in the website, being listed as 'Ultramarine Honour Guard', sorely lacking from the new Whitescars page, and the new Ultramarine supplement leaks include them, implying they aren't in the main book.



Honor Guard started as UM only. They came in a package with PapaSmurf in his Terminator Armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quasistellar wrote:
That is annoying, especially since I held on to a shred of hope that Chronus would be reworked as a generic astartes tank commander. Pretty frustrating that Ultras get so much but meh.


Yeah, I haven't seen any leaks for White Scars dudes other than Kor'sarro. I'm going to feel pretty sorry for them if they have to spend the same 60 bucks or so to get one freakin data sheet. They should have released CM/Cap/Libby/Chappie for each chapter, if it's just use the generic commander model with X options and we'll get you a model with molded iconography in a year or less.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Just Tony wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
Back in the day, the Ultramarines had their own codex.

They threw a dart at the board and Ultramarines got saddled with the 'other' chapters.


You wouldn't walk up to someone from the 4th Infantry Division and say "Oh, you're 1st Infantry!"


No, but I would if they were wearing MARPAT just to screw with them.


Exalted.

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For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming

Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its AoS, it doesn't have to make sense.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




BrianDavion wrote:
white scars also get a Khan on a bike, which is a biker captain with a special weapon,

that said, I'd only really buy the supplements if you are a big fan of the chapter ayway so the fluff is thus worthit.

I believe the super doctrines are in the supplements so you need the supplements for the actual worth while monobuild buff.
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Ice_can wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
white scars also get a Khan on a bike, which is a biker captain with a special weapon,

that said, I'd only really buy the supplements if you are a big fan of the chapter ayway so the fluff is thus worthit.

I believe the super doctrines are in the supplements so you need the supplements for the actual worth while monobuild buff.


the doctrine enhancers are yes. the doctrines themselves are not. but yeah until the next supplements come out, we're all ultramarines sucessors I suspect

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Automated Space Wolves Thrall




 Crazyterran wrote:
Back in the day, the Ultramarines had their own codex.

They threw a dart at the board and Ultramarines got saddled with the 'other' chapters.


Even in 2nd ed the UM codex was the one people used for all the other chapters/their custom chapters though, unless they were specifically doing a SW/BA/DA successor chapter. it was heavily presented as the standard codex and had 2 pages showing other chapter designs plus a page just for the imperial fists.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut







The interesting bit for me, looking at that points table, is that there is only one entry for Calgar - given we have three datasheets for him in this edition (PA, TA, Stupid), what's going on with him in the supplement?

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Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Dysartes wrote:
The interesting bit for me, looking at that points table, is that there is only one entry for Calgar - given we have three datasheets for him in this edition (PA, TA, Stupid), what's going on with him in the supplement?


only his Primaris stats are in the supplement. which makes sense, his old fine cast models are no longer being sold.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I think every Chapter should have something like 2 unique units to them, that the other chapters can not use. The unique personality of the different chapters should be reflected in their model line, the more variety the better.
I for one do not care that the SM line would be bloated if they released unique units for the major chapters, IF they finally give all the xenos armies some love and expand their model range.

I don't even play Space Marines, but I think the more options there are, the more interesting the game becomes. I don't want to play against the same generic SM army every time, where the models are all the same and the only difference is the paintjob.
So yes, the honor guard (or victrix guard) should be ultramarines only in my opinion.
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






It also seems that the Honour Guard is limited to Ultramarines themselves, not even the successors can take them. This seems completely unnecessarily restrictive to me.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in gb
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot





UK

To answer the OP, the core codex only includes Primaris Ancient, Company Ancient, Company Champion and Ancient in Terminator Armour.

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