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Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




USA

The wonderful, wonderful people at GW appear to have made Honour Guard, Chapter Champions and Ancients, Ultramarines only. The Honour Guard unit now only appears under the Ultramarine listing in the website, being listed as 'Ultramarine Honour Guard', sorely lacking from the new Whitescars page, and the new Ultramarine supplement leaks include them, implying they aren't in the main book.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/09 23:52:04


"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed. 
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Is that Gman at 336? With a drop that big I think it is safe to say he has been reworked a little bit. Kinda happy about that. I hope he can still be a big force multipler in a different way. Plus I can include other chapters in the army now without feeling like I am hindering myself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/09 23:58:01


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




USA

 Xenomancers wrote:
Is that Gman at 336?


Gman also appears to be nerfed here



"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Oh so he is pretty much worthless now. Great. LOL. Hes not even rerolling his own wounds in CC now. Just remove him as an entry. Hey though - he just got a lot better at buffing knights. If this is the route they were gonna take with him. He should be a 12" aura for his ultramarine buffs. Still a lord of war as well...calgar has ascended!

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/08/10 00:07:44


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

He's changed quite a bit.

-Cost is 330
-Hand of Dominion is Damage 4
-He gets Angels of Death, meaning more attacks, Doctrines, benefits from CT
-He re rolls all hits now, that's stronger.
-Wound re rolls is a massive nerf.


Biggest Problem is that a Chapter Master and Lt are now by far better the choice because they are the mandatory HQs in your list and don't require a seperate detachment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 00:08:19


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

He is a friendly Ultramarine unit within 6" of himself??

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.

And most guns that Guilliman was helping was wounding most things on 3s at the least, with the exception being Imperial Knights.

It depends on how bad it is depending if Chapter Masters just reroll all failed hits or if they get all hit rolls like Guilliman has.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 00:09:25


 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Ishagu wrote:
He's changed quite a bit.

Cost is 330

-Hand of Dominion is Damage 4
-He gets Angels of Death, meaning more attacks, Doctrines, benefits from CT

He re rolls all hits now, that's stronger.

Wound re rolls is a massive nerf.


Biggest Problem is that a Chapter Master and Lt are now by far better the choice because they are the mandatory HQs in your list and don't require a seperate detachment.
Good catch on ALL HITS - however - all CM might have this ability too. So overall that is an okay consideration.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Xenomancers wrote:
Oh so he is pretty much worthless now. Great. LOL. Hes not even rerolling his own wounds in CC now. Just remove him as an entry.

Can we remove him from the fluff too? Put him back in the stasis or something?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ishagu wrote:
The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

But it is super annoying that they steal units that used to be shared.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 00:11:51


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Crazyterran wrote:
He is a friendly Ultramarine unit within 6" of himself??

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.

And most guns that Guilliman was helping was wounding most things on 3s at the least, with the exception being Imperial Knights.

It depends on how bad it is depending if Chapter Masters just reroll all failed hits or if they get all hit rolls like Guilliman has.

With a bonus attack as long as hes wounding on 3's the numbers will be similar. Also the hand of dominion might actually be used at times to wound better. I am pretty much in shock though. Hell shoot a little better I suppose and 3 CP bonus might be more useful now if stratagems are good. I wanna see his warlord trait. If that god buffed to doctrine manipulation then we might still be in business.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in fi
Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Crazyterran wrote:

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.

I'm almost certain that the Chapter Master reroll will be similarly reworded.


Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Crimson wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Oh so he is pretty much worthless now. Great. LOL. Hes not even rerolling his own wounds in CC now. Just remove him as an entry.

Can we remove him from the fluff too? Put him back in the stasis or something?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ishagu wrote:
The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

But it is super annoying that they steal units that used to be shared.



Heresy! You are talking about the lord commander of the entire imperium!

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

 Crimson wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.

I'm almost certain that the Chapter Master reroll will be similarly reworded.



Hm, maybe. It seems like a way to make Guilliman just a bit better without how crazy better he used to be, making actual options in Ultramarines lists rather than just Guilliman.

I really want to see how Chaplains have changed, and how they buff things. Cassius might actually be worth taking for once!

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot




USA

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Oh so he is pretty much worthless now. Great. LOL. Hes not even rerolling his own wounds in CC now. Just remove him as an entry.

Can we remove him from the fluff too? Put him back in the stasis or something?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ishagu wrote:
The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

But it is super annoying that they steal units that used to be shared.



Heresy! You are talking about the lord commander of the entire imperium!


Yeah, it's removing units from other people's armies, which I'm not okay with

"For the dark gods!" - A traitor guardsmen, probably before being killed. 
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/10 00:26:43


-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

What's the source on these pics?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.


amen

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.


Ha!
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.
This is true - and now bringing him doesn't make you a "power gamer".

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

 Xenomancers wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.
This is true - and now bringing him doesn't make you a "power gamer".
What if he's brought with Knights?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 JNAProductions wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.
This is true - and now bringing him doesn't make you a "power gamer".
What if he's brought with Knights?
I was doing that before and I will surely be doing it now. At 330 that is 70 more points of knights on the table. That is pretty huge.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle




In My Lab

I'd consider that powergaming.

Nothing wrong with that, so long as you ain't seal clubbing, but yeah. He was, in relation to Knights, buffed.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Crazyterran wrote:
He is a friendly Ultramarine unit within 6" of himself??

Also, he gets Cawl-like rerolls to hit now, so hit rolls that would be modified into misses can be rerolled now, and let's face it, there are a lot more modifiers to hit than to wound.



And most guns that Guilliman was helping was wounding most things on 3s at the least, with the exception being Imperial Knights.

It depends on how bad it is depending if Chapter Masters just reroll all failed hits or if they get all hit rolls like Guilliman has.

That depends on which version of the FAQ you're dealing with. They went with rerolls before mods, then that broke some of the rerolls like ATSKNF so they revised it somehow such that all fails means after modifiers or some such. I gave up.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Crimson wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ishagu wrote:
The Ultras do need a few extra unique units. Lagging behind the other big 4 in this regard.

But it is super annoying that they steal units that used to be shared.




Its super annoying they stole units that used to not be shared.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ishagu wrote:
The best thing about his nerf is that the constant crying and complaining about him from some will finally end.


Its cute that you think so. When has constant crying and complaining about the other guy's toys ever finally ended? They're just going to complain about something else. He allows Plasma Rerolls. He manipulates Doctrines. Whatever the new gimmick will be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's going to be interesting is the 12"/6" circle. Ultramarines outside of 6" but inside of 12" are still IMPERIUM so they can reroll 1's?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/10 04:57:19


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Space Marine





The guilliman nerf is super good, because he's absolutely still viable to take but isn't an auto-include either. Want to take an ultramarines-only list? Take him. Want to do soup? Take calgar instead. Want to do another chapter? Now you're not pressured to take UM because they have a demi-god available to them.

Also it's kinda interesting he's the exact same price as just taking Calgar and Tigurius together. Pretty good way of doing it!
   
Made in de
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought






Germany

Is he still a MONSTER, not benefiting from his own chapter tactic ?
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





 p5freak wrote:
Is he still a MONSTER, not benefiting from his own chapter tactic ?


chapter tactics now apply to EVERYTHING

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 cole1114 wrote:
The guilliman nerf is super good, because he's absolutely still viable to take but isn't an auto-include either. Want to take an ultramarines-only list? Take him. Want to do soup? Take calgar instead. Want to do another chapter? Now you're not pressured to take UM because they have a demi-god available to them.

Also it's kinda interesting he's the exact same price as just taking Calgar and Tigurius together. Pretty good way of doing it!


Why would I take Calgar instead of Guilliman in soup? Guilliman still has a Reroll 1's for IMPERIUM And Calgar does not.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Long-Range Ultramarine Land Speeder Pilot





Holy Terra

His cost is actually 350.

I actually think he's too expensive now. If he was a HQ and not a LoW I'd be more supportive.

The problem is you can get the same auras for cheaper. And yes, he is good in combat however he's also a monster that can't ride in a vehicle, get around fast or deploy outside of normal restrictions.

Yes, some niche' uses with Knights aren't affected but he's less useful with Astartes.

-~Ishagu~- 
   
Made in ca
Courageous Space Marine Captain





Gulliman might be more useful depending on the changes the chaplains and the new librarian powers. if they're changed to the point where you "really want a chappy and a libby" then obviously it changes the calculus.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





 Ishagu wrote:
His cost is actually 350.

I actually think he's too expensive now. If he was a HQ and not a LoW I'd be more supportive.

The problem is you can get the same auras for cheaper. And yes, he is good in combat however he's also a monster that can't ride in a vehicle, get around fast or deploy outside of normal restrictions.

Yes, some niche' uses with Knights aren't affected but he's less useful with Astartes.


You're not getting a 12" aura for cheaper. 12 inch radius is 450 square inches or so. Even if you're not soup'ing a 6 inch radius is 113 square inches or so, you need 3 captains to cover the same area, Plus Lieutenants. Plus base size is going to add even more.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
 
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