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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/28 22:23:28
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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https://www.polygon.com/2020/10/19/21523673/dragonlance-authors-weis-hickman-sue-wizards-of-the-coast-dungeons-and-dragons
Authors Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis are suing Dungeons & Dragons publisher Wizards of the Coast for breach of contract. According to court documents, the pair were working on a new trilogy of novels set in the Dragonlance universe, and at least one manuscript had received approval when the publisher pulled the plug on the project.
Hickman and Weis are seeking damages in excess of $10 million.
The Dragonlance Chronicles began at D&D’s original publisher TSR in the 1980s. The novelization kicked off in 1984 with the publication of Dragons of Autumn Twilight, and the original trilogy was rounded out with Dragons of Winter Night and Dragons of Spring Dawning. The action takes place in the high-fantasy world of Krynn, and stars characters such as Tanis Half-Elven, Raistlin, Flint Fireforge, and Goldmoon. The franchise also included numerous tabletop role-playing adventures that were designed and published contemporaneously.
According to documents filed in a United States District Court on Oct. 16, Hickman and Weis allege that in 2017 they were approached by Wizards to write a new series of novels. A licensing agreement was negotiated by both parties. There was also an additional publishing agreement with Del Rey Books, an imprint of Random House Publishing Group. One complete manuscript, titled Dragons of Deceit, was completed and approved while the draft for a second book — provisionally titled Dragons of Fate — was also completed.
The complaint alleges that the project was going well until early 2020, when Wizards was embroiled in a series of serious public relations issues with its two marquee franchises — Dungeons & Dragons and Magic: The Gathering — as well as a high-profile claim of workplace hostility. From the lawsuit:
As Plaintiff-Creators subsequently learned, Defendant’s arbitrary decision to terminate the License Agreement — and thereby the book publishing contract — was based on events that had nothing to do with either the Work or Plaintiff-Creators. In fact, at nearly the exact point in time of the termination, Defendant was embroiled in a series of embarrassing public disputes whereby its non-Dragonlance publications were excoriated for racism and sexism. Moreover, the company itself was vilified by well-publicized allegations of misogyny and racist hiring and employment practices by and with respect to artists and employees unrelated to Dragonlance. Plaintiff-Creators are informed and believe, and based thereon allege, that a decision was made jointly by Defendant and its parent company, Hasbro, Inc., to deflect any possible criticism or further public outcry regarding Defendant’s other properties by effectively killing the Dragonlance deal with Plaintiff-Creators. The upshot of that was to inflict knowing, malicious and oppressive harm to Plaintiff-Creators and to interfere with their third party contractual obligations, all to Plaintiff-Creator’s severe detriment and distress.
After multiple alterations and rewrites of the first book in the series were ordered and completed, on Aug. 13 Wizards informed the authors that it would not be approving any more drafts. That decision, Hickman and Weis say, effectively terminated the project.
“When challenged about the grounds for such termination,” the lawsuit states that Wizards’ legal representative, “responded with the nonsensical statement, ‘We are not moving toward breach, but we will not approve any further drafts.’”
Wizards’ refusal to continue approving content related to the Dragonlance license has effectively prevented Hickman and Weis from publishing their work, short circuited any effort to “mitigate or modify their storylines,” and prevented them from collecting on their “guaranteed advance [...] royalties, [and] incentive payments” with Random House.
As a result, Hickman and Weis claim, years of hard work — including story concepts and outlines previously approved — are now locked away from public view. Reached for comment, Wizards of the Coast said through a representative that it does not comment on pending litigation.
Update (Oct. 20): Polygon reached out to legal representatives of Hickman and Weis, who declined to comment further. “The matter is currently being handled through the judicial process,” wrote Josiah Prendergast of the law firm Weintraub Tobin
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/28 22:40:12
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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I want to know about the earlier allegations, and why they lead Wizards to drop Dragonlance.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/28 22:44:09
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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BobtheInquisitor wrote:I want to know about the earlier allegations, and why they lead Wizards to drop Dragonlance.
There's a link in the original article ( Wizards of the Coast Freelancer Quits Due to Hostile Work Environment). IIRC there was a string of accusations that they either responded badly to or just ignored.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/28 22:47:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/29 00:04:30
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Executing Exarch
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Fingers crossed they walk away with a big sack of gold
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"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/29 00:36:11
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Legendary Master of the Chapter
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Kind of weird for an organization with both D&D and MTG in its house to be so out of touch with nerd counterculture.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/29 08:24:18
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Anti-Armour Swiss Guard
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You do realise it's Hasbro at the top, right?
Hasbro owns D&D, and MTG. Their interest is in making craploads of moola from nerds, by owning all the stuff that nerds obsess over.
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I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/29 10:31:33
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Focused Fire Warrior
Les Etats Unis
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BobtheInquisitor wrote:Kind of weird for an organization with both D&D and MTG in its house to be so out of touch with nerd counterculture.
If you think this is bad, the current MTG situation is going to floor you. The gak has been solidly at fan level for about a year and a half now, and it's not showing any signs of getting better.
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Dudeface wrote: Eldarain wrote:Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?
If you want to get existential, life for some. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/29 10:52:33
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Ah, Courtrooms and redtape, we do the dance once again.
Meanwhile, on the customer front, it seems strange that there aren't any Dragonlance stuff on the shelves. Was never into D&D but I do remember Dragonlance being the "face" of D&D back in the day.
The ruins of Xak Tsaroth would be perfect for one of those solo-coop boardgames, like Castle Ravenloft.
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Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/29 10:58:32
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Norn Queen
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SamusDrake wrote:Ah, Courtrooms and redtape, we do the dance once again.
Meanwhile, on the customer front, it seems strange that there aren't any Dragonlance stuff on the shelves. Was never into D&D but I do remember Dragonlance being the "face" of D&D back in the day.
The ruins of Xak Tsaroth would be perfect for one of those solo-coop boardgames, like Castle Ravenloft.
DnD has changed ownership hands quite a few times. Some of those owners respected the source material and the customers and some of them didn't. Dragonlance along with a bunch of other settings were created mostly during the ADnD era when the people who didn't were running the show and paper back novels were viewed as a very lucrative side hussel by the owners.
When Wizards got the ownership and moved to 3rd the books slowed down and many of the settings from ADnD all but, if not flat out, disappeared. Dragonlance and Starjammer are two of those.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/29 16:26:40
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Executing Exarch
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chromedog wrote:You do realise it's Hasbro at the top, right?
Hasbro owns D&D, and MTG. Their interest is in making craploads of moola from nerds, by owning all the stuff that nerds obsess over.
Indeed but if the money flow stops or costly legal hijinx occur I'd imagine WOTC will have a rude awakening to Daddy Hasbro indulgence tap running dry
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"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/29 20:09:47
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Lance845 wrote:SamusDrake wrote:Ah, Courtrooms and redtape, we do the dance once again.
Meanwhile, on the customer front, it seems strange that there aren't any Dragonlance stuff on the shelves. Was never into D&D but I do remember Dragonlance being the "face" of D&D back in the day.
The ruins of Xak Tsaroth would be perfect for one of those solo-coop boardgames, like Castle Ravenloft.
DnD has changed ownership hands quite a few times. Some of those owners respected the source material and the customers and some of them didn't. Dragonlance along with a bunch of other settings were created mostly during the ADnD era when the people who didn't were running the show and paper back novels were viewed as a very lucrative side hussel by the owners.
When Wizards got the ownership and moved to 3rd the books slowed down and many of the settings from ADnD all but, if not flat out, disappeared. Dragonlance and Starjammer are two of those.
Yes, D&D has certainly gone through its share of rough times behind the scenes. If memory serves correctly, the introduction of AD&D caused the two creators of D&D to fall out with each other.
Indeed, the Dragonlance trilogy is still being sold in shops today and even got an animated film adaptation with Kiefier Sutherland and Lucy Lawless. I dare ask that you have popped it in a dvd player at some point, and played frisbe with it afterwards?
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Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 12:41:36
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
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Lance845 wrote:SamusDrake wrote:Ah, Courtrooms and redtape, we do the dance once again.
Meanwhile, on the customer front, it seems strange that there aren't any Dragonlance stuff on the shelves. Was never into D&D but I do remember Dragonlance being the "face" of D&D back in the day.
The ruins of Xak Tsaroth would be perfect for one of those solo-coop boardgames, like Castle Ravenloft.
DnD has changed ownership hands quite a few times. Some of those owners respected the source material and the customers and some of them didn't. Dragonlance along with a bunch of other settings were created mostly during the ADnD era when the people who didn't were running the show and paper back novels were viewed as a very lucrative side hussel by the owners.
When Wizards got the ownership and moved to 3rd the books slowed down and many of the settings from ADnD all but, if not flat out, disappeared. Dragonlance and Starjammer are two of those.
Spelljammer, not starjammer IIRC. Though IMO the biggest lost setting is Planescape.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 12:43:00
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Bran Dawri wrote:
Spelljammer, not starjammer IIRC. Though IMO the biggest lost setting is Planescape.
Wasn't that the setting for a PC game at some point? It rings a bell.
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Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 14:01:03
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest
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It was - and a critical if not commercial darling at that, Planescape Torment. You can still get it on GOG and Steam, I believe.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 14:01:11
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 14:09:43
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Norn Queen
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Spelljammer right. Spelljammer and planescape are basically the same setting with dfiferrent modes of getting around the planes.
There is no reason not to make the two one and the same (Spellscape? Planejammer?) and lets all hope it's one of the 3 settings being released next year.
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These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 14:15:07
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
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My favorite RPG to this date.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 14:51:20
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Thats the one!
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Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 14:56:45
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Lance845 wrote:Spelljammer right. Spelljammer and planescape are basically the same setting with dfiferrent modes of getting around the planes.
There is no reason not to make the two one and the same (Spellscape? Planejammer?) and lets all hope it's one of the 3 settings being released next year.
What a surprise - a 40k Consolidationist trying to apply that philosophy to a different game.
No, Jack, there were far more elements distinct between the two than just the method of travel.
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2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG
My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote:This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote:You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling. - No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 16:13:32
Subject: Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot
Wrexham, North Wales
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Too right. Spelljammer had nothing to do with planar travel at all. No demon ships in Spelljammer. No Giant Space Hamsters in Planescape. Not even Miniature Giant Space Hamsters.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 16:29:26
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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SamusDrake wrote:Bran Dawri wrote:
Spelljammer, not starjammer IIRC. Though IMO the biggest lost setting is Planescape.
Wasn't that the setting for a PC game at some point? It rings a bell.
There was even a Dragonlance RPG at one point, back in the 8 bit era. I bought a used copy on cassette and had no idea what was going on. It did, however, come boxed with some book called Dragons Of Autumn Twilight and that was a pivotal moment in my childhood.
I'm not a huge fan of RPGs so I'm not sure they ever did one once the tech advanced, but that trash, monochrome, silent, confusing mess had a huge impact on me, albeit indirectly.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 16:50:55
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Executing Exarch
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As I recall there were two games, one was a big box many discs rpg like Pools of Radiance etc
The other was a total stinker of a side scroller where losing Goldmoon and possibly Raistlin early meant it was unwinnable
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"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 16:56:52
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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What sets Planescape apart from the extraplanar elements present in Forgotten Realms?
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The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 17:29:57
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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Turnip Jedi wrote:As I recall there were two games, one was a big box many discs rpg like Pools of Radiance etc
The other was a total stinker of a side scroller where losing Goldmoon and possibly Raistlin early meant it was unwinnable
It was definitely the second one.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 20:21:48
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Azreal13 wrote:SamusDrake wrote:Bran Dawri wrote:
Spelljammer, not starjammer IIRC. Though IMO the biggest lost setting is Planescape.
Wasn't that the setting for a PC game at some point? It rings a bell.
There was even a Dragonlance RPG at one point, back in the 8 bit era. I bought a used copy on cassette and had no idea what was going on. It did, however, come boxed with some book called Dragons Of Autumn Twilight and that was a pivotal moment in my childhood.
I'm not a huge fan of RPGs so I'm not sure they ever did one once the tech advanced, but that trash, monochrome, silent, confusing mess had a huge impact on me, albeit indirectly.
OMG that must have been Heroes of the Lance!
When my parents picked up a second hand ZX Spectrum that game was in there with an amazing box but sadly the tape would crash. Ah, the days of willing a game to load only to learn years later that worshipping to Sir Clive Sinclair did diddly squat...
There was another one called Dragons Of Flame, but never got round to that one.
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Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 20:32:59
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Focused Fire Warrior
Les Etats Unis
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trexmeyer wrote:What sets Planescape apart from the extraplanar elements present in Forgotten Realms?
I haven't ever been too invested in the FR lore as opposed to general/Greyhawk stuff, but I believe the Planescape setting uses the latter cosmology rather than the former. The FR setting and Planescape mostly have the same planes (Heaven, Elysium, Hell, the Abyss, etc. etc.), but Planescape/Greyhawk has a bunch of extra minor ones such as Pandemonium and the Beastlands, and they're all arranged in a massive alignment-based wheel with the Planescape "home base" in the middle. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that the Realms use an orrery for their planar model? I'm unsure.
However, there was also some old canon that Faerun and the Greyhawk and Dragonlance planets are all in the same galaxy, which throws a massive wrench in the whole thing. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the guys writing the older editions cared more about "rule of cool" than setting consistency.
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Dudeface wrote: Eldarain wrote:Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?
If you want to get existential, life for some. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 20:43:38
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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SamusDrake wrote: Azreal13 wrote:SamusDrake wrote:Bran Dawri wrote:
Spelljammer, not starjammer IIRC. Though IMO the biggest lost setting is Planescape.
Wasn't that the setting for a PC game at some point? It rings a bell.
There was even a Dragonlance RPG at one point, back in the 8 bit era. I bought a used copy on cassette and had no idea what was going on. It did, however, come boxed with some book called Dragons Of Autumn Twilight and that was a pivotal moment in my childhood.
I'm not a huge fan of RPGs so I'm not sure they ever did one once the tech advanced, but that trash, monochrome, silent, confusing mess had a huge impact on me, albeit indirectly.
OMG that must have been Heroes of the Lance!
When my parents picked up a second hand ZX Spectrum that game was in there with an amazing box but sadly the tape would crash. Ah, the days of willing a game to load only to learn years later that worshipping to Sir Clive Sinclair did diddly squat...
There was another one called Dragons Of Flame, but never got round to that one.
I was lucky, I started with a +2, so the built in tape deck meant I didn't have to fiddle with volume levels or dodgy connections. I wasn't completely spared though, prior to that our neighbours had an old 48k and trying to get Rambo: First Blood or Track and Field to load was as much an act of faith and luck as anything!
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 20:55:15
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Azreal13 wrote:
I was lucky, I started with a +2, so the built in tape deck meant I didn't have to fiddle with volume levels or dodgy connections. I wasn't completely spared though, prior to that our neighbours had an old 48k and trying to get Rambo: First Blood or Track and Field to load was as much an act of faith and luck as anything!
And yet, NES owners acted like drama queens when they had to blow on their cartridges...ah, how our hearts bled for them.
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Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/11/04 18:45:21
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Wolf Guard Bodyguard in Terminator Armor
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Flipsiders wrote: trexmeyer wrote:What sets Planescape apart from the extraplanar elements present in Forgotten Realms?
I haven't ever been too invested in the FR lore as opposed to general/Greyhawk stuff, but I believe the Planescape setting uses the latter cosmology rather than the former. The FR setting and Planescape mostly have the same planes (Heaven, Elysium, Hell, the Abyss, etc. etc.), but Planescape/Greyhawk has a bunch of extra minor ones such as Pandemonium and the Beastlands, and they're all arranged in a massive alignment-based wheel with the Planescape "home base" in the middle. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that the Realms use an orrery for their planar model? I'm unsure.
However, there was also some old canon that Faerun and the Greyhawk and Dragonlance planets are all in the same galaxy, which throws a massive wrench in the whole thing. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the guys writing the older editions cared more about "rule of cool" than setting consistency.
As I recall according to Planescape all the other settings were different subplanes in (mostly) the Prime Material with some exceptions like Ravenloft. Some of those just got their cosmology wrong, one of the reasons Primes were considered backwards yokels by most Planars.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 22:34:37
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Focused Fire Warrior
Les Etats Unis
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Bran Dawri wrote: Flipsiders wrote: trexmeyer wrote:What sets Planescape apart from the extraplanar elements present in Forgotten Realms?
I haven't ever been too invested in the FR lore as opposed to general/Greyhawk stuff, but I believe the Planescape setting uses the latter cosmology rather than the former. The FR setting and Planescape mostly have the same planes (Heaven, Elysium, Hell, the Abyss, etc. etc.), but Planescape/Greyhawk has a bunch of extra minor ones such as Pandemonium and the Beastlands, and they're all arranged in a massive alignment-based wheel with the Planescape "home base" in the middle. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that the Realms use an orrery for their planar model? I'm unsure.
However, there was also some old canon that Faerun and the Greyhawk and Dragonlance planets are all in the same galaxy, which throws a massive wrench in the whole thing. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the guys writing the older editions cared more about "rule of cool" than setting consistency.
As I recall according to Planescape all the other settings were different subplanes in (mostly) the Prime Material with some exceptions like Ravenloft. Some of those just got their cosmology wrong, one of the reasons Primes were considered backwards yokels by most Planars.
Now that you mention it, that does sound familiar. I do seem to remember something about Faerun being in some sort of "planar bubble" which was supposed to explain why no one ever drove over there with Spelljammers, although I may be recalling it incorrectly. However, even that explanation still leaves a lot of questions, such as why everyone who dies in the FR setting has a meet-and-greet with the soul DMV and Wall of Atheists after they die, whereas if you bite the dust on Greyhawk or Athas you just wake up wherever you're supposed to be without the paperwork session.
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Dudeface wrote: Eldarain wrote:Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?
If you want to get existential, life for some. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/10/30 22:42:46
Subject: Re:Weis/Hickman to sue WoTC over alleged contract breach regarding new Dragonlance material.
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Flipsiders wrote:Bran Dawri wrote: Flipsiders wrote: trexmeyer wrote:What sets Planescape apart from the extraplanar elements present in Forgotten Realms?
I haven't ever been too invested in the FR lore as opposed to general/Greyhawk stuff, but I believe the Planescape setting uses the latter cosmology rather than the former. The FR setting and Planescape mostly have the same planes (Heaven, Elysium, Hell, the Abyss, etc. etc.), but Planescape/Greyhawk has a bunch of extra minor ones such as Pandemonium and the Beastlands, and they're all arranged in a massive alignment-based wheel with the Planescape "home base" in the middle. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure that the Realms use an orrery for their planar model? I'm unsure.
However, there was also some old canon that Faerun and the Greyhawk and Dragonlance planets are all in the same galaxy, which throws a massive wrench in the whole thing. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the guys writing the older editions cared more about "rule of cool" than setting consistency.
As I recall according to Planescape all the other settings were different subplanes in (mostly) the Prime Material with some exceptions like Ravenloft. Some of those just got their cosmology wrong, one of the reasons Primes were considered backwards yokels by most Planars.
Now that you mention it, that does sound familiar. I do seem to remember something about Faerun being in some sort of "planar bubble" which was supposed to explain why no one ever drove over there with Spelljammers, although I may be recalling it incorrectly. However, even that explanation still leaves a lot of questions, such as why everyone who dies in the FR setting has a meet-and-greet with the soul DMV and Wall of Atheists after they die, whereas if you bite the dust on Greyhawk or Athas you just wake up wherever you're supposed to be without the paperwork session.
you do remember wrong, Faerun was involved with spelljamming, and "Realmspace" was a common port of call.
As for faerun's death etc stuff well.. thats because it's the laws of that partiuclar prime plane.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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