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Made in gb
Stinky Spore





Got back into playing 40k After 15 years away, I thought Id start with ORKS - Remembering them being a fairly easy race to pick-up, problem being they is only one real tactic with them and that's "rush" everything forward and close, and see how it pans out, So new Codex brought - absolute mind scramble! The rule changes and stratagems I cannot recall 40k being this complex several releases ago. absolute mountain of information to process almost takes the fun out of it?

How is anyone realistically supposed to know all the potential stats, relics, customs, special rules involved in an army? I'm finding this is almost taken the just play/have fun element out of game, any finding all the rules involved almost too much to learn ? Also creating an army list seems way more complex than I can previously remember. How can I simplify all this ?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 21:02:12


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Welcome to the horror!

They'll tell you that 9th edition is "simpler" because: "look at how much shorter the core rules are!"

Then you crack open the codex and your mind explodes.

I stopped playing for a while (5th edition) and tried to get into 8th and 9th and few times and I just can't. I (perhaps like you?) literally get a headache trying to sort through the new codexs and get my head around all the bloat that's in there (stratagems, faction traits, relics, etc.). It's too much and all of it detracts from what made the game fun before.

If you have a willing group, do what many of us are doing and just play old hammer. Go back to 4th or 5th edition or use an older custom rule set (see link in my signature).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 21:07:45


Want a better 40K?
Check out ProHammer: Classic - An Awesomely Unified Ruleset for 3rd - 7th Edition 40K... for retro 40k feels!
 
   
Made in us
Ork Boy Hangin' off a Trukk





 Peakab00 wrote:
How is anyone realistically supposed to know all the potential stats, relics, customs, special rules involved in an army? I'm finding this is almost taken the just play/have fun element out of game, any finding all the rules involved almost too much to learn ? Also creating an army list seems way more complex than I can previously remember. How can I simplify all this ?


Go back to an earlier edition that you prefer; that's what I have done. Current 40k codex rules (not the rulebook's core rules) are a mess of needlessly complex layering of rules upon rules. See the numerous other threads that expand on this topic . . .
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Agree with you totally gone through the same thing over a year ago. It’s hard for a someone who wants to be a casual player but just as hard to become a competitive player.

I would say watch some videos on you tube. There are loads of people breaking down the codexes and play styles etc and I think that helps pick it up.

You can try using the 40K app, the army builder helps organise but doesn’t really explain why you have to make certain choices.

Don’t get me started on command points.

However the current range of models for most armies are mostly superb so if you’re really into painting then now is a good time to be in the hobby
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





United States

Uh. The game is more simple than it ever has been. What you will find is that only about 4-5 stratagems are worth using, usually with 1-3 being abuseable AF. I haven't seen the new Ork codex just yet, but I imagine it's not really all that much different from its 8th Ed. Counterpart.

I think that you're just overwhelmed because you've been gone so long.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Mezmorki wrote:
Welcome to the horror!

They'll tell you that 9th edition is "simpler" because: "look at how much shorter the core rules are!"

Then you crack open the codex and your mind explodes.


Of course, they'll be along in a minute and imply how mentally deficient we are or something for finding modern 40k too bloated.

Togusa wrote:
Uh. The game is more simple than it ever has been. What you will find is that only about 4-5 stratagems are worth using, usually with 1-3 being abuseable AF. I haven't seen the new Ork codex just yet, but I imagine it's not really all that much different from its 8th Ed. Counterpart.

I think that you're just overwhelmed because you've been gone so long.


Oh look, it only took five posts...



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

""Unite" is a human word, ... join me or die."

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Togusa wrote:
Uh. The game is more simple than it ever has been. What you will find is that only about 4-5 stratagems are worth using, usually with 1-3 being abuseable AF. I haven't seen the new Ork codex just yet, but I imagine it's not really all that much different from its 8th Ed. Counterpart.

I think that you're just overwhelmed because you've been gone so long.


Nope. I played pretty heavily into 8th, then 9th came around and once the codexes started rolling out, I got lost fast. In order to 'find' the 4-5 stratagems that are worth using, you have to play games and figure it out, or be willing to blindly trust the competitive players on the internet, so your first 5-10 games are going to be a slog of memorizing rules, figuring out what works and what doesn't.

Also, the new Ork Codex has some drastic changes in terms of points, stats, stratagems, and useability from the old one, not to mention all the new units that people are figuring out. If you're coming into the 9th edition codex from 8th, 7th, 6th, or any other time, there's a TON that's changed.

Fact of the matter is that the longer 9th goes on and the more codexes that come out, the more the community is going to feel this way. They get lured in by awesome new models only to find a wall of text that they have to slog through in order to play with them.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Feels like a regular Dakka poster made an alt to complain about 9th edition. As if we didn't have enough threads on it.

   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







The edition wars are pretty bad right now; asking questions about "how is anyone supposed to parse 9th?" on Dakka is likely to lead to a long argument between the "9th is best edition!" crowd and "9th is worst edition!" crowd. Generally this comes in the form of making wildly different value judgements on the same facts (ex. the pace of releases is good because people get new stuff faster, or the pace of releases is bad because it makes it hard to keep up with what's going on), which means that the arguments go on and on and round in circles and never go anywhere.

I've found that except for a couple of outliers (hi PenitentJake!) the people who enjoy 9th the most are competitive players that don't mind buying models just to win/not playing models they like because they're bad, enjoy keeping up with the tournament meta, and like the move to a more deterministic game. If you're going to try and play 40k right now I'd strongly suggest doing your research ahead of time; before buying anything or making any list-building decisions watch some battle reports, read some reviews (not the GW ones where they're gushing over everything independent of whether it's crap), and look at what lists other people are building. Internal balance is worse than it's ever been, and I find the people who like 9th are very happy to steamroll you, then tell you that the game is perfect and it's your fault for buying the wrong minis.

If you just want to start playing a minis game I'd strongly suggest looking into things that aren't 40k. More so than earlier editions it's hard to drop in/drop out or otherwise play casually; you're expected to keep up with tournament play and have multiple armies so you can swap when half your stuff gets squatted to a degree that wasn't so mainstream ten or fifteen years ago.

Disclaimer: This is largely informed by my community and by the people I talk to online; it's completely possible that you could have the mythical local community of actual casual people that don't really care about tournament play and you can play casually, but in my experience the fanbase has largely pivoted to a more competitive mindset.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Feels like a regular Dakka poster made an alt to complain about 9th edition. As if we didn't have enough threads on it.


Wait, there are so few people who don't like 9th that they're all already longtime Dakka people? I must have missed this news.

(This is the other part of the edition wars problem, the "if you don't like 9th there's something wrong with you!"/"if you like 9th there's something wrong with you!" position.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 21:36:44


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
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Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





Having played since 3rd edition, what I've found is that the pre-game stuff for 9th is far more complex, but that once you understand it and get models in the table, it tends to be simpler than many of the previous editions (I remember never being able to get 7th straight, felt like every rule had at least half a dozen exceptions, and there were FAR more base rules than there are now. Though I did play 7th the least because of life circumstances, so that could be it too.)

I just introduced a friend of mine to the game recently and he had much the same reaction as you, his literal words were "How the hell do you remember all this nonsense!" Rather than overwhelm him with everything at once, we played several games over about a month and a half, slowly adding more rules as we went.

We started out simple, just using the datasheets, we put models on the table and tried to kill each other. Next game, we added the faction specific rules, next game objectives, next game universal stratagems, next secondary objectives, next relics and other misc options, and lastly all stratagems. By doing it a bit at a time, he got acclimatized really well and while he still forgets some things here and there, he's got it mostly down now and is having a great time with the game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 21:45:25


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 AnomanderRake wrote:

Wait, there are so few people who don't like 9th that they're all already longtime Dakka people? I must have missed this news.

(This is the other part of the edition wars problem, the "if you don't like 9th there's something wrong with you!"/"if you like 9th there's something wrong with you!" position.)


No, I mean this is worded so precisely like arguments already on the forum it's like someone created a new account to throw read meat to the base and increase the perception of malcontent.

Someone who's actually interested in getting into the game - especially an older player with experience, because the old rulebooks were an absolute minefield - doesn't usually approach it this way.

Of course, I'm being a grumpy turd so take that as you will.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 21:48:44


   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





nternal balance is worse than it's ever been, and I find the people who like 9th are very happy to steamroll you, then tell you that the game is perfect and it's your fault for buying the wrong minis.


9th edition's had better internal balance then the last 3 or 4 editions on average. you're proably thinking of 8th edition which many armies still have a codex for

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in au
Repentia Mistress




 Peakab00 wrote:
Got back into playing 40k After 15 years away, I thought Id start with ORKS - Remembering them being a fairly easy race to pick-up, problem being they is only one real tactic with them and that's "rush" everything forward and close, and see how it pans out, So new Codex brought - absolute mind scramble! The rule changes and stratagems I cannot recall 40k being this complex several releases ago. absolute mountain of information to process almost takes the fun out of it?

How is anyone realistically supposed to know all the potential stats, relics, customs, special rules involved in an army? I'm finding this is almost taken the just play/have fun element out of game, any finding all the rules involved almost too much to learn ? Also creating an army list seems way more complex than I can previously remember. How can I simplify all this ?
List building looks harder than it is in pratice.

Codex rules can be broken down into 2 groups. Unit and army rules. Army rules just have to be learnt, but they can be learnt in steps - if someone is willing to help - and have the advantage of a always needing to be considered. Unit rules are learnt on a usage basis, especially part of a post game debrief.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
nternal balance is worse than it's ever been, and I find the people who like 9th are very happy to steamroll you, then tell you that the game is perfect and it's your fault for buying the wrong minis.


9th edition's had better internal balance then the last 3 or 4 editions on average. you're proably thinking of 8th edition which many armies still have a codex for


He owns a lot of pariah armies so his perspective comes from that place. It isn't correct or incorrect necessarily.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut







Wow this is a surprisingly applicable post to a lot of currently ongoing discussions. Huh.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Wow this is a surprisingly applicable post to a lot of currently ongoing discussions. Huh.


Yes. How weird. And convenient.

   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Daedalus81 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
nternal balance is worse than it's ever been, and I find the people who like 9th are very happy to steamroll you, then tell you that the game is perfect and it's your fault for buying the wrong minis.


9th edition's had better internal balance then the last 3 or 4 editions on average. you're proably thinking of 8th edition which many armies still have a codex for


He owns a lot of pariah armies so his perspective comes from that place. It isn't correct or incorrect necessarily.


Such "pariah armies" include CSM, which on one hand, sure, "GW hates CSM!" jokes, but on the other hand if CSM get to be in the "no, we can't be bothered to make playable rules for several editions at a time" doghouse nobody is immune.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 AnomanderRake wrote:
The edition wars are pretty bad right now; asking questions about "how is anyone supposed to parse 9th?" on Dakka is likely to lead to a long argument between the "9th is best edition!" crowd and "9th is worst edition!" crowd. Generally this comes in the form of making wildly different value judgements on the same facts (ex. the pace of releases is good because people get new stuff faster, or the pace of releases is bad because it makes it hard to keep up with what's going on), which means that the arguments go on and on and round in circles and never go anywhere.

I've found that except for a couple of outliers (hi PenitentJake!) the people who enjoy 9th the most are competitive players that don't mind buying models just to win/not playing models they like because they're bad, enjoy keeping up with the tournament meta, and like the move to a more deterministic game. If you're going to try and play 40k right now I'd strongly suggest doing your research ahead of time; before buying anything or making any list-building decisions watch some battle reports, read some reviews (not the GW ones where they're gushing over everything independent of whether it's crap), and look at what lists other people are building. Internal balance is worse than it's ever been, and I find the people who like 9th are very happy to steamroll you, then tell you that the game is perfect and it's your fault for buying the wrong minis.

If you just want to start playing a minis game I'd strongly suggest looking into things that aren't 40k. More so than earlier editions it's hard to drop in/drop out or otherwise play casually; you're expected to keep up with tournament play and have multiple armies so you can swap when half your stuff gets squatted to a degree that wasn't so mainstream ten or fifteen years ago.

Disclaimer: This is largely informed by my community and by the people I talk to online; it's completely possible that you could have the mythical local community of actual casual people that don't really care about tournament play and you can play casually, but in my experience the fanbase has largely pivoted to a more competitive mindset.



I just wanted to quickly reply to this beyond just exalting, because (especially with the little disclaimer) I think you hit the nail on the head.

Aside from the Crusade system which, while needed a bit more to it, I think is great for causal; it does really feel like (especially from players online) that this is the "competitive tournament edition."

All that being said, I play 1000 points of all Kroot (Aside from HQ's) and I'm loving them this edition. My local meta is super casual, but still, it's freaking Kroot, supposed to be the meemeiest of the meme armies, and I'm winning handily. I think that the tools to abuse are far more prevalent in 9th with how much there is to each codex, but I also feel like if you have a community (fortunately like mine) that are all casual players and don't care about meta builds and online lists, you can still have a blast in casual 9th.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 22:02:55


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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?




Noctis Labyrinthus

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Internal balance is worse than it's ever been


It certainly isn't my friend. If you believe that you pretty clearly don't know much about ninth edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AnomanderRake wrote:

Such "pariah armies" include CSM, which on one hand, sure, "GW hates CSM!" jokes, but on the other hand if CSM get to be in the "no, we can't be bothered to make playable rules for several editions at a time" doghouse nobody is immune.


CSM is an eighth edition codex. How is its internal balance relevant to ninth edition's?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 22:03:25


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 AnomanderRake wrote:
Such "pariah armies" include CSM, which on one hand, sure, "GW hates CSM!" jokes, but on the other hand if CSM get to be in the "no, we can't be bothered to make playable rules for several editions at a time" doghouse nobody is immune.


Yes, there surely were lots of missed opportunities for the to make CSM more viable, but their time is nearly here and I'll wager fans of the 3.5 codex will enjoy it ( barring inclusion of daemons ).

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Setting arguments of 'which is better' aside, you are left with a choice: Do you play 9th edition or not?

If you want to play 9th edition, how do you get into it? WintersSEO put up a good video about this, but I'll go ahead and break it down for everyone here.

A. Find someone that already knows the edition and ask if you can learn under them. Many hobbyists that care to grow their community (and wont just gatekeep) will actually WANT to teach you, because if they can teach you, then they have more people to play against, and everyone has a good time.

B. Start small. 500 points, 1000 points, and don't start with stratagems (perhaps other than the command re-roll) or secondary objectives. Play Open Play missions with 1 detachment. This will help you get the flow of the game, the army abilities unique to you, and let you test out lots of different things with your collection or Combat Patrol/Start Collecting box.

C. Once you have that under your belt, start adding in the rest of your stratagems and other army abilities. This will help you understand the importance and flow of command points, and which stratagems work best for you and your playstyle. You'll also be able to see what your opponent brings in terms of stratagems, and learning the stratagems your opponent is likely to use against you is important. (Especially if you're learning, your opponent should warn you ahead of time what stratagems they have in their back pocket. There should be no 'gotcha' moments in a learning game, save those for the tournaments).

D. After you've gotten a few games of that in and feel pretty confident, start playing the Matched Play missions from the various sources, like the Core Rulebook, Tournament Mission Packs, and Chapter Approved. Start using secondaries. You'll have a pretty good idea of which ones will work best for your playstyle by now. As you get more comfortable, THEN start adding points. 1000 point games are good for a good long time, and build up towards 1250, 1500, 1750, and eventually 2000 and up if you care to. This will give you time to build and paint your collection and learn which units your army is missing, or that you want to play with, rather than simply buying a bunch of stuff to get to 2000 points as quickly as possible and not knowing what to do with it.

A lot of this advice is good for ANY game and ANY edition, but it's amazing how quickly people online would rather argue rather than HELP people get from game to game or edition to edition.

And if you want your community to grow (and you should, because more community means more players and more chance GW will grow and make more minis that you want), you'll take the time to teach the newbies rather than try to soapbox about whatever is the best edition. 9th edition has FLAWS, and those flaws have driven me, personally, away from wanting to dig into it, but that said, if I were to teach new players, or learn myself, this is the formula I'd follow.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Void__Dragon wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Internal balance is worse than it's ever been


It certainly isn't my friend. If you believe that you pretty clearly don't know much about ninth edition.


I don't keep up with the meta, no, I stopped playing 9th because my entire experience of it consisted of getting beaten up and then given sad lectures about how I bought the wrong models and if I only bought new armies everything would be fine. I know that my experience gets dismissed by people who play 9th a lot because "oh, your Codex's tournament winrate is fine, it's okay" when everyone playing it in tournaments is playing the same cookie-cutter netlist containing no models I own, or because I play strange niche armies that of course GW couldn't be bothered to support like CSM or Deathwatch, or because they're playing Crusade which they like better than tournament play therefore everything's fine, or because I don't have a 9e Codex yet and when I get one everything will be fine (even after it demonstrably isn't), or because at least it's not (insert made-up fact about how a game of 7th required you to memorize five hundred pages of rules and then took fourteen hours to play here).

The only thing I know for certain is that I find 9e incredibly unfun, and whenever I say that, or suggest playing something else, there's an endless parade of people ready to come out of the woodwork and explain gently to me that it'd all be fine if I bought a different army. If you're prepared to deal with that situation, or if you're prepared to go buy a different army, great! You'll have a fun time playing 9th like all the other people having a great time playing 9th, because you're that kind of player! If you're not that kind of player, however, I'd rather you got this perspective ahead of time, before dumping hundreds or thousands of dollars into the game and then discovering you don't like it very much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:

Such "pariah armies" include CSM, which on one hand, sure, "GW hates CSM!" jokes, but on the other hand if CSM get to be in the "no, we can't be bothered to make playable rules for several editions at a time" doghouse nobody is immune.


CSM is an eighth edition codex. How is its internal balance relevant to ninth edition's?


Because unlike sensible game companies that update everything all at once when they do a new edition GW's determined to keep up with the rolling update schedule that means I get to either sit out of 40k 50% of the time because my Codex comes about halfway through an edition, or play an army that's been utterly left behind by power creep and lose every game for that 50% of the time, or buy a different army!.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Such "pariah armies" include CSM, which on one hand, sure, "GW hates CSM!" jokes, but on the other hand if CSM get to be in the "no, we can't be bothered to make playable rules for several editions at a time" doghouse nobody is immune.


Yes, there surely were lots of missed opportunities for the to make CSM more viable, but their time is nearly here and I'll wager fans of the 3.5 codex will enjoy it ( barring inclusion of daemons ).


I'll bet you as an Alpha Legion player I won't enjoy the Codex. I'm expecting the army to get either no new models or one new character, all the sub-faction content to be reprints of the late-8th stuff except for one that gets something incredibly OP just to make sure the tournament people go gasp! and buy CSM armies, at least one unit to stay at 8e wound counts (1 for power armour/2 for Terminators) because GW forgot them and then doesn't remember to FAQ them, and only the weapons that share a name with loyalist SM weapons to get updated statlines while CSM-specific weapons stay at the 8e standard.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/15 22:22:18


Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 AnomanderRake wrote:


I don't keep up with the meta, no, I stopped playing 9th because my entire experience of it consisted of getting beaten up and then given sad lectures about how I bought the wrong models and if I only bought new armies everything would be fine. I know that my experience gets dismissed by people who play 9th a lot because "oh, your Codex's tournament winrate is fine, it's okay" when everyone playing it in tournaments is playing the same cookie-cutter netlist containing no models I own, or because I play strange niche armies that of course GW couldn't be bothered to support like CSM or Deathwatch, or because they're playing Crusade which they like better than tournament play therefore everything's fine, or because I don't have a 9e Codex yet and when I get one everything will be fine (even after it demonstrably isn't), or because at least it's not (insert made-up fact about how a game of 7th required you to memorize five hundred pages of rules and then took fourteen hours to play here).

The only thing I know for certain is that I find 9e incredibly unfun, and whenever I say that, or suggest playing something else, there's an endless parade of people ready to come out of the woodwork and explain gently to me that it'd all be fine if I bought a different army. If you're prepared to deal with that situation, or if you're prepared to go buy a different army, great! You'll have a fun time playing 9th like all the other people having a great time playing 9th, because you're that kind of player! If you're not that kind of player, however, I'd rather you got this perspective ahead of time, before dumping hundreds or thousands of dollars into the game and then discovering you don't like it very much.



While your complaints about 9th are certainly valid, this seems just as much an issue with the people in your community being meta chasing win at all cost nobheads.

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 Tawnis wrote:
...While your complaints about 9th are certainly valid, this seems just as much an issue with the people in your community being meta chasing win at all cost nobheads.


I one hundred percent accept that the people I play with are all dicks, which is a big part of me not playing 9th. That said I get the exact same lectures here on Dakka as I do in person from those guys when I make the same observations, which leads me to think that it could be a broader problem.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

 Tawnis wrote:

I just introduced a friend of mine to the game recently and he had much the same reaction as you, his literal words were "How the hell do you remember all this nonsense!"


I have a buddy who gave 9th a try with us in the shops winter Crusade last year.
Last he'd played was 5th(?). He imediately discovered that there were more rules involved in playing his SMs than there were for the game itself.
You should have heard the ranting....
   
Made in ca
Kroot Carnivore





 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Tawnis wrote:
...While your complaints about 9th are certainly valid, this seems just as much an issue with the people in your community being meta chasing win at all cost nobheads.


I one hundred percent accept that the people I play with are all dicks, which is a big part of me not playing 9th. That said I get the exact same lectures here on Dakka as I do in person from those guys when I make the same observations, which leads me to think that it could be a broader problem.


Makes sense, far more competitive people tend to frequent forums like this rather than the casual players. As far as I know, no one in my local community uses sites like this, they just buy the rulebook, their codex, models they think are cool, and assume that's all there is too it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think you're half right, it's just that your sample group is proportionally skewed. My recommendation if you were ever to try 9th again, (or even 10th when it comes out as I can't imagine GW's track record is set to improve all that much) is to just find some hole in the wall LGS and see if they have a casual 40k community.

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Longtime Dakkanaut





The advice about starting small is excellent.

In a 25 PL game, you only get 3 command points + 1 per turn. Pick the five most interesting strats in your dex, and don't worry about anything else.

I would also suggest using PL instead of points, because it simplifies decisions about equipment. I know it's not as balanced once you've got a few games under your belt, and if you're competitive minded, you'll eventually want that granularity. But while you're learning, it's a lot easier.

You may also want to start with open play, or missions out of the BRB.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





PenitentJake wrote:
The advice about starting small is excellent.

In a 25 PL game, you only get 3 command points + 1 per turn. Pick the five most interesting strats in your dex, and don't worry about anything else.

I would also suggest using PL instead of points, because it simplifies decisions about equipment. I know it's not as balanced once you've got a few games under your belt, and if you're competitive minded, you'll eventually want that granularity. But while you're learning, it's a lot easier.

You may also want to start with open play, or missions out of the BRB.


This right here ^

Also, even Tabletop Tactics, who are quite competitively minded, agree that the edition is 'a bit much'. Great video of good perspective.


   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




I've played ever since 3rd edition and stopped when 7th introduced formations. Came back around the end of 8th.

It's definitely a pain with how many resources you need to bring to just play. I'm expected to bring the rulebook, your codex, psychic awakening, the new CA 2021, FAQ's, etc.

After discovering wahapedia it's certainly much easier. Though if I want to play at a GW store or even I can't rely on that. Like literally, that website is a lifesaver.

List building is a pain now. Though battlescribe has made it much easier.

So at least there's ways to get around much of the pain. My biggest issue is remembering stratagems.
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Daedalus81 wrote:
Feels like a regular Dakka poster made an alt to complain about 9th edition. As if we didn't have enough threads on it.
I can see how you might think that.

Ofcourse another option is that this sounds so much like what others have complained about (myself included) because this is exactly what the returning players we are encountering in real life are saying.

(Since my club reopened after lockdown 2 players have tried 9th that haven't played much since 5/6th. Both of them reached basically the same conclusion. That all the stuff in the codex that stacks on top of the base game is to much to parse and that they are overwhelmed by the options available and have no desire to spend the time trying to parse all the varies relics, traits and stratagems and secondaries just to play a game of 9th roughly twice a month.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 23:39:19


 
   
 
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