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Made in us
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman



Some where in the Canadian deathlands

See some of the 40k RPGs such as Only War, Dark Heresy and I'm not so sure on them, would like to hear your thoughts on the 40k RPGs.

" For every Guardsmen lost a trillion more will take his place and deliver the Emperor's wrath upon the scum of the galaxy, be it heretic, xenos or the dirty traitors to humanity. " 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Trying a made up one with my nephews tomorrow actually. Havent put a lot of thought into it but basically:

The group (husband, 2 nephews, maybe brother) pick a race from my collection and a "class". WUSIWUG on the models. They role play it out from there. Bringing terrain and "monsters" for the planet they're on and doing the mind numbingly simplest "stats" I can think of.

For example everything is balanced on a d6 for evenness down the middle. So fails are 1-3, successes are 4-6.
Having a shield is +1 to saves/tanking. Being a higher level then the monster, +1, etc. Psychic powers against the custodes though is -1. Being weaker is -1. 1s always fail. 6s always succeed.

Its not going to be balanced. Going to be super silly but I think they'll have fun. Convinced one of them will pick an Ork Weridboy and we'll just roll to see if his spells actually help or hinder the party lol. That and in he beginning I'm going to give them options of taking a bunch of health potions with them or a giant explosive with a BIG RED BUTTON on it. If they chose the bomb and give it to the ork, I know I don't need to even try. They wont last 2 minutes.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/02/23 02:19:46


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

(Full Bias Disclaimer: I wrote a bunch of stuff for Dark Heresy, Only War and Black Crusade)

Honestly, I enjoy them more than 40k proper. The level of freedom and creativity is unmatched, you get to tell the stories you want to, you don't have to burden yourself with GW's rules/'the meta' or any of that nonsense, and it allows for far more modelling opportunities than 40k ever could.

It's because of the 40k RPGs that I became obsessed with map sheets and tile sets, why I own tons of minis from other manufacturers, and it gave a new lease of life to all my Necromunda stuff (before Newcromunda hit the scene).

My group is currently a bit over two-years (accounting for lockdowns!) into a Black Crusade campaign with 6 players + the GM.

My fav game is Dark Heresy, and I prefer to play Deathwatch than run it. Black Crusade is a blast. Haven't had time to play Only War or Rogue Trader yet, sadly.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Dark Heresy is a very fun ruleset. It's crunchy and maybe even a bit overcomplicated at times, but it's got depth and is generally interesting to play. It avoids the problems of some RPG systems where high-level players can ignore low-level enemies; no matter how strong you get you still need to worry about getting shot. (A really tough, strong PC will only have maybe 15-18 wounds, while a much weaker PC will have maybe 8.)

The squishiness of players is compensated for by having Fate Points which are effectively 'lives' which can be spent to avoid certain death, while still rewarding players who manage to keep out of death situations.

It's a good system.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I've played a couple of different Dark Heresy campaigns. Our first went for several years and saw our characters reach Inquisitorial rank. I've also played Rogue Trader and Deathwatch.

The rules are almost identical and largely cross-compatible. Dark Heresy is fundamentally a horror game. Your characters are outmatched by what they're fighting, and they will go insane or become corrupted over time. They also fail... a lot. The game is very unforgiving. But, your enemies can fail too, and flamers (and bolters and chainswords) solve a lot of problems.

Rogue Trader and Deathwatch are more heroic in tone. You have better equipment and better stats, so failure is less common. That said, the games are still fairly deadly, and players should be cautious.

The only part of gameplay I don't care for is psychic powers. They tend to be too complicated and too powerful, and run a serious risk of driving your fellow players insane. Some people like the random, wacky element, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/23 02:47:49


Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





I worked with BL on playtesting and reviewing the original DH way back in 2007.

We enjoyed it quite a lot and the freedom and detail was great.

I stopped enjoying it as much when it went off the deepend with space marines, going for totally OTT stats...

I like the new one for its ability to balance different PC types and even levels of PCs (warlock vs ranger vs scout vs intercessor etc).



   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Fantasy Flight did 40k lore better than GW. Also, no Primaris. Would recommend.

The new one... Wrath & Glory I think it's called... haven't heard good things.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






I for one love them, and enjoy the fact that they are *mostly* cross compatible. Black Crusade, Dark Heresy 2.0 and Only War are directly compatible save a few small things, while Deathwatch and Rogue Trader you can pull stuff here and there but you need to exert some more effort on it.

I think my favorite part is just how open character creation is in most of the rpgs - your starting picks/alignments tend to give you bonuses or penalties for pursuing different paths, but you can ignore them and just add this or that as you like. The main thing is the xp cost will be cheaper or more expensive, so you aren't locked out entirely.

It creates some fun interactions, where if say your Dark Heresy party pulls some strings to get the local Planetary Defense Force to lend a hand, or requisition a few guardsmen, the group can then play "build a regiment" for funsies and roll up a few guardsmen to play as meatshields, or as the muscle of an attack as the nerds stay home or in the command tent.

The only real flaw is that there are a lot of talents and abilities, and it sometimes gets hard keeping track of them. In the world of having a pdf and just opening about 8 tabs of it at once it isn't terrible to just have the book open at all times to a specific rule, but back in the day where I only had a physical copy it could get tiring looking at a stat block, seeing it had these 6 talents and these 3 traits, and having to remember what specifically they did.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Somewhere in Canada

I loved Dark Heresy- the character progression on the battle sisters really rounded out my understanding of the faction, and the NPC Inquisitors are awesome.

I only have the Dark Heresy Core book and the Inquisitors Handbook. I haven't played in quite some time, but I still flip through those books quite frequently.

   
Made in us
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman



Some where in the Canadian deathlands

Kya_Vess wrote:
Trying a made up one with my nephews tomorrow actually. Havent put a lot of thought into it but basically:

The group (husband, 2 nephews, maybe brother) pick a race from my collection and a "class". WUSIWUG on the models. They role play it out from there. Bringing terrain and "monsters" for the planet they're on and doing the mind numbingly simplest "stats" I can think of.

For example everything is balanced on a d6 for evenness down the middle. So fails are 1-3, successes are 4-6.
Having a shield is +1 to saves/tanking. Being a higher level then the monster, +1, etc. Psychic powers against the custodes though is -1. Being weaker is -1. 1s always fail. 6s always succeed.

Its not going to be balanced. Going to be super silly but I think they'll have fun. Convinced one of them will pick an Ork Weridboy and we'll just roll to see if his spells actually help or hinder the party lol. That and in he beginning I'm going to give them options of taking a bunch of health potions with them or a giant explosive with a BIG RED BUTTON on it. If they chose the bomb and give it to the ork, I know I don't need to even try. They wont last 2 minutes.


Sounds like it will be a fun game I hope you and your loved ones have fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
(Full Bias Disclaimer: I wrote a bunch of stuff for Dark Heresy, Only War and Black Crusade)

Honestly, I enjoy them more than 40k proper. The level of freedom and creativity is unmatched, you get to tell the stories you want to, you don't have to burden yourself with GW's rules/'the meta' or any of that nonsense, and it allows for far more modelling opportunities than 40k ever could.

It's because of the 40k RPGs that I became obsessed with map sheets and tile sets, why I own tons of minis from other manufacturers, and it gave a new lease of life to all my Necromunda stuff (before Newcromunda hit the scene).

My group is currently a bit over two-years (accounting for lockdowns!) into a Black Crusade campaign with 6 players + the GM.

My fav game is Dark Heresy, and I prefer to play Deathwatch than run it. Black Crusade is a blast. Haven't had time to play Only War or Rogue Trader yet, sadly.


Well said my friend and I have to agree with with what you are saying about the freedom and creativity of RPGs over wargames, two years that's a lot longer then any of the RPG games I have played, thanks for your insights on my question about 40k RPGs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Waaaghpower wrote:
Dark Heresy is a very fun ruleset. It's crunchy and maybe even a bit overcomplicated at times, but it's got depth and is generally interesting to play. It avoids the problems of some RPG systems where high-level players can ignore low-level enemies; no matter how strong you get you still need to worry about getting shot. (A really tough, strong PC will only have maybe 15-18 wounds, while a much weaker PC will have maybe 8.)

The squishiness of players is compensated for by having Fate Points which are effectively 'lives' which can be spent to avoid certain death, while still rewarding players who manage to keep out of death situations.

It's a good system.


I see and I do have to agree with you that in some RPGs higher level characters can ignore or steamroller over weaker characters/NPCs, it's nice to know that is really an issue with most if not all 40k RPGs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kurhanik wrote:
I for one love them, and enjoy the fact that they are *mostly* cross compatible. Black Crusade, Dark Heresy 2.0 and Only War are directly compatible save a few small things, while Deathwatch and Rogue Trader you can pull stuff here and there but you need to exert some more effort on it.

I think my favorite part is just how open character creation is in most of the rpgs - your starting picks/alignments tend to give you bonuses or penalties for pursuing different paths, but you can ignore them and just add this or that as you like. The main thing is the xp cost will be cheaper or more expensive, so you aren't locked out entirely.

It creates some fun interactions, where if say your Dark Heresy party pulls some strings to get the local Planetary Defense Force to lend a hand, or requisition a few guardsmen, the group can then play "build a regiment" for funsies and roll up a few guardsmen to play as meatshields, or as the muscle of an attack as the nerds stay home or in the command tent.

The only real flaw is that there are a lot of talents and abilities, and it sometimes gets hard keeping track of them. In the world of having a pdf and just opening about 8 tabs of it at once it isn't terrible to just have the book open at all times to a specific rule, but back in the day where I only had a physical copy it could get tiring looking at a stat block, seeing it had these 6 talents and these 3 traits, and having to remember what specifically they did.


Thanks for your feedback and speaking of *fun interactions* I was on another site awhile ago and one of the folks there mentioned a DH game he was playing and ran into a *slight* in game *problem*

The *problem* being that one of the players who was playing an SOB character torched a full intact STC library because she that it was a *heretical/corrupted by chaos before the other player/characters including two Ad Mech players could stop her which pretty killed the game because of such a F-up on the SOB player's part which was in character.

Well let me tell you what was said about that *situation* and the in game Ad Mech's response to the nun with a flamer was quite funny to read, at best the nun in question would be turned into a toilet seviitor to others saying that the AD Mech would going on the warpath on the SOBs in their entirety to the AD Mech find new and how say we say *interesting* ways to *punish* the sister in question that would make the dark gods puke.

Which you would never have happen it a 40k wargame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PenitentJake wrote:
I loved Dark Heresy- the character progression on the battle sisters really rounded out my understanding of the faction, and the NPC Inquisitors are awesome.

I only have the Dark Heresy Core book and the Inquisitors Handbook. I haven't played in quite some time, but I still flip through those books quite frequently.



Well that settles it I'm going to have to invest in the WH 40k RPGs game when I can, might look into buying DH and OW since I'm a Guardsmen fan and a nice RPG game set into a major war would be more my things then playing as an inquisitor and sulking in the shadows, but that's not so say I won't try my hand at playing an inquisitor, sadly I have no players where I am since I'm out in the middle of nowhere Canada.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/02/23 04:12:32


" For every Guardsmen lost a trillion more will take his place and deliver the Emperor's wrath upon the scum of the galaxy, be it heretic, xenos or the dirty traitors to humanity. " 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

It's sad that the books are out of print (and go for a frickin' mint on eBay! ), but thankfully all the PDFs are still on sale.

Ask if you want to know what books have what, or if you're looking for something specific.

 Hellebore wrote:
I stopped enjoying it as much when it went off the deepend with space marines, going for totally OTT stats...
Why would you stop enjoying Dark Heresy when they made a separate game about Space Marines? Marines weren't in Dark Heresy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/23 04:19:03


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





Dark Heresy 2nd edition / Only War seem like great systems.

The limiting factors being space marine players and xenos. Honestly though, that is more of a symptom of the setting itself. You really shouldn't be trying to run those races together in a group anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/23 04:27:48


 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Sledgehammer wrote:
Dark Heresy 2nd edition / Only War seem like great systems.


Eh. Mechanically, they're really not. d100, roll under systems are honestly pretty bad regardless of the who's publishing (Chaosium had similar game mechanics, for example). Especially when starting stats are 30s-40s on average.
Unless 'comically inept' is something you're aiming for as a design goal, it goes pretty poorly.

People can have fun with them, but as game systems, they can be pretty wretched and demoralizing to players who want a base level of competence out of their characters.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Sure Space Wolves Land Raider Pilot





great series to read about 40k lore. since i like space, i really enjoyed rogue trader
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







The base system always seemed to me to be simple in concept but really difficult to actually use, just because of the giant pile of keywords (talents, traits, whatnot) in between you and knowing how anything works. Also during my few attempts to actually play it felt like the book presents this fascinating and elaborate tree of really cool stuff, but you don't really have any options at character creation, so the early game is quite boring and campaigns often peter out before getting to most of the content.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in it
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

Kargan3033 wrote:
See some of the 40k RPGs such as Only War, Dark Heresy and I'm not so sure on them, would like to hear your thoughts on the 40k RPGs.
So, my thoughts in general having run through them all as both player and GM...

They're more fun to "play with", than actually play. They've got a lot of mechanics that look cool, tons of weapon profiles, etc, a lot stuff to research and thoughcraft with.

Actually playing them is much more difficult. There's just way too much stuff to remember. It's the kind of thing that works way better when there's a computer keeping track of everything and doing all the math. There's a lot of insane granularity for its own sake. Wonderful stuff that feeds the imagination and details the setting, but is just a gigantic mess to actually sit down and play with.

There's a lot of mechanics I liked (Influence/Infamy for example, and using that to acquire stuff and interact with people, Fate Points, etc), but it's something that we were always spending time flipping through books referencing and doublechecking things and working out how many mechanics were interacting in what ways.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Voss wrote:
 Sledgehammer wrote:
Dark Heresy 2nd edition / Only War seem like great systems.


Eh. Mechanically, they're really not. d100, roll under systems are honestly pretty bad regardless of the who's publishing (Chaosium had similar game mechanics, for example). Especially when starting stats are 30s-40s on average.


Someone didn't read the section on how modifiers work...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vaktathi wrote:
Actually playing them is much more difficult. There's just way too much stuff to remember. It's the kind of thing that works way better when there's a computer keeping track of everything and doing all the math. There's a lot of insane granularity for its own sake. Wonderful stuff that feeds the imagination and details the setting, but is just a gigantic mess to actually sit down and play with.


I liked games like that, since it gatekept the casuals out for me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/23 06:03:41


 
   
Made in nl
Dakka Veteran






I personally like D100 systems (I mean, I'm currently running a WFRP 2nd edition campaign) but with 40k games, there is one issue that's always hard to solve. And that's the insane power of many weapons which quickly leads to very high lethality on both sides if restraint isn't used. And let's be honest, if you're an imperial agent, dealing with heresy and worse, I would definitely want some serious firepower.

That said, I did enjoy the games I had with these systems and would certainly play again. As always, restraint in characters is necessary (some can be so much more powerful than others in basically every system) but that applies to every game.

   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Deathwatch is fun for a while but it mostly comes down to killing things with little bits of mystery or puzzles. Nobody wants to play a Space Marine and spend their time dealing with court intrigue or mysterious goings on. That doesn't mean it isn't fun, it just makes it a very specific type of fun.
Honestly, it will all come down to who you're doing it with. My group started off fine but then just kept trying to meme their way through encounters I had planned. I eventually ended one of our sessions about 2 hours early and had to take a couple of weeks off before ending the planned campaign about a month early. I firmly believe in the power of the GM/DM and in their ability to craft stories and missions for the players. When the players start to whinge and make it hard for the GM because they aren't getting their own way, the game is stuffed.
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Only played Wrath and Glory. Rules wise it's not just a dumpster fire, it's a fething landfill fire.

Honestly I'd just use a light, setting agnostic system like FATE that doesn't even try to also be a mini skirmish game.

The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Voss wrote:
Eh. Mechanically, they're really not. d100, roll under systems are honestly pretty bad regardless of the who's publishing (Chaosium had similar game mechanics, for example). Especially when starting stats are 30s-40s on average.
Unless 'comically inept' is something you're aiming for as a design goal, it goes pretty poorly.

People can have fun with them, but as game systems, they can be pretty wretched and demoralizing to players who want a base level of competence out of their characters.
Sounds like you had a gakky GM who was't using modifiers correctly.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight






 Gert wrote:
Deathwatch is fun for a while but it mostly comes down to killing things with little bits of mystery or puzzles. Nobody wants to play a Space Marine and spend their time dealing with court intrigue or mysterious goings on. That doesn't mean it isn't fun, it just makes it a very specific type of fun.
Honestly, it will all come down to who you're doing it with. My group started off fine but then just kept trying to meme their way through encounters I had planned. I eventually ended one of our sessions about 2 hours early and had to take a couple of weeks off before ending the planned campaign about a month early. I firmly believe in the power of the GM/DM and in their ability to craft stories and missions for the players. When the players start to whinge and make it hard for the GM because they aren't getting their own way, the game is stuffed.


I dunno, memeing and bullshitting your way through encounters can be some of the funnest parts of the game. As a dm it is often fun to see how the players will break what I have planned - just using Dark Heresy as an example my group spent over half a session planning on how they would show up to a Slaaneshi cult meeting and how to best optimize their angle of attack and what bs excuse they would have for bringing weapons in (most of them involved having the tech priest disassemble them piece by piece and then put them back together in a bathroom stall).

I think my favorite interaction from the campaign so far was the party's reaction to learning that the bad guy had ways of blocking security footage across the region, and using warp based shenanigans to explode any device that successfully plays it. Obviously grab the the equivalent of 30 vcrs and cr tvs, find an empty parking lot, a dumpster, a very long stick, and some binoculars. Tech priest clears out the blockage, hits play and runs like hell for cover while the rest peek from behind it. Then later weaponized it when some gangers were paid to put them out of commission by hitting "play" and bolting out of the room about 1 minute before they kicked down the door.

3-5 players will always be smarter than 1 dm, and just winging what the hell happens when they think of something silly and clever is one of the funnest parts of being the dm.
   
Made in gb
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





Kargan3033 wrote:
Well that settles it I'm going to have to invest in the WH 40k RPGs game when I can, might look into buying DH and OW since I'm a Guardsmen fan and a nice RPG game set into a major war would be more my things then playing as an inquisitor and sulking in the shadows, but that's not so say I won't try my hand at playing an inquisitor, sadly I have no players where I am since I'm out in the middle of nowhere Canada.
I've not played the newer variations of the game (DH2, OW), however in terms of the originals -

Dark Heresy v1 - the game and characters are suitable for investigation, social activities, and smaller scale combats. By DM preference their resources (and ability to impact the world around them) can vary from near penniless hive scum to leaders of armies, though the default trends towards a band of poorly equipped scrubs.

DH1 characters will fail their tests frequently, get shot up by small arms, but over time can become noticably stronger. A top level/ascension level DH sister of battle with quality gear will outmatch starting deathwatch characters for a few levels until they pull away, while a first level DH character may die from falling damage after failing an agility roll to get out of bed.
The different character types are specialised but all fit into the same party structure - think DnD party.

---

Deathwatch - combat, combat, and more combat. Every character is an increasingly powerful killing machine with access to special actions to kill more things (or avoid being killed). By their nature there is a limit to their scope in social/investigation style games and typical encounters for a low-level group might include a unit of tyranid warriors with support or a hundred orks at once. It pushes chapter distinctiveness heavily.
Intrigue can be added but character progression tends to start at 'punch it once', advance through 'punch it twice', and ultimately end up at 'punch it three or four times'.

---

Rogue Trader - social, investigation, combat, trading, spacefaring. Lots of opportunity for varied types of gameplay, almost no guidance on how to go about running it, and characters that frequently make little or no sense being in the same place.
Needs a clear plan of progress from the DM and the players on board with it. The characters themselves are more competent than their DH counterparts and mostly compatable with the DH rules and supplements, but can be highly specialised both in abilities and expectations (i.e. one might be a master spy and assassin always working alone, the next might be the ships captain or navigator never within a mile of combat without their substantial personal bodyguard).
You'll need a large grid (or suitable online playfield) for the space combat.
   
Made in ch
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





Hecaton wrote:
The new one... Wrath & Glory I think it's called... haven't heard good things.

WANG is pretty bad, but it was doomed the second they went in trying to appeal to the crowd who wanted the FFG games to be a D&D kitchen sink where they can be Eldar Farseers, Guard Commissars, Marines and other "I don't want restrictions, I want to do what I want!" archtypes.

Dark Heresy 1e hasn't aged too well imo, but that may be biased by me thinking 2e was a fantastic refinement of the rules, the removal of currency aside. Although I do think the Calixis Sector was a far more interesting setting than Askellon, even just going off corebooks alone. It's still worth getting the PDFs for the lore, art and plot hooks.

Rogue Trader is functionally DH1e with a higher power level and suffers from the aging problems, but it can still work if you've a group who enjoy that level of crunch. That said, there's DH2e conversions of it.

Deathwatch I think really suffers from coming right before the soft revamp that Black Crusade did to the system. If you've a group who 'know' the mechanics and can run things relatively smoothly, it's a neat 'tactical RPG' but very heavily relies upon the GM to keep putting the PCs in situations that are more than mere Bolter Porn which is where most groups tend to fall apart.

Black Crusade is tied with DH for being my favourite of the bunch. It has the power level of RT and Deathwatch, with the most interesting (fleshed out?) progression of the games, as well as the best scope for non-RT PCs to make waves within the sandbox. The only issue I had is how it awkwardly tries to ignore space combat rules despite it being almost expected of your PCs to get mixed up in it somehow, and there literally being a class that owns a ship from the start, the first pre-made adventure putting the PCs in command of one and the prominence of pirates within the Scream Vortex. I do wonder if we were supposed to see a space splat at some point, but the line being cancelled snubbed that.

Only War's like a better, lower-power version of Deathwatch. It's very obviously committed to being Gaunt's Ghosts: The RPG and I don't think it needs much more explanation than that.

Dark Heresy 2e is the tightest of the books in terms of rules, as well as it's limited (compared to 1e) splatbooks doing a good job of rounding most of the options your PCs will want and covering each Ordo. It's not perfect by any stretch but it's better than what came after (WANG).



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/02/23 12:41:35


 
   
Made in us
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dark heresey was really fun, and wrath and glory for the little bit i got to play it was also really good though i only played a 3 session small story so couldn't attest to the depth of that system.

that said i have also run a fate system 40k game and it went really well, the fat system lets you kind of tailor encounters and focus on RP rather than complicated mechanics. its easy to adjust encounters on the fly and you can explain the whole system to a player in under a min and they know exactly how to play.

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The Great State of New Jersey

Kargan3033 wrote:
See some of the 40k RPGs such as Only War, Dark Heresy and I'm not so sure on them, would like to hear your thoughts on the 40k RPGs.


Don't think its been clearly stated here, but there have been several RPGs from several publishers over time. Each that creates a slightly different experience.

Arguably the first 40k roleplaying game was the 1st edition of 40k (aka Rogue Trader). Early 40k was basically a different game (though many of the mechanics might be recognizable to you) and were focused on small narrative-heavy skirmishes of maybe a dozen models per side and had a heavy narrative focus, rules to play with a GM (which was otherwise optional), means to level up/develop your characters, etc. You didn't really play a character so much as you lead a warband - if you've played games like Necromunda or Mordheim you probably have a good idea of what that looked like. Character/warband building was much more freeform as the setting wasn't as well developed as it is now (space marines were less warrior monks and more thuggish criminals conscripted into military service, you could have a half-human half-eldar space marine carrying a lasgun, or a eldar warrior with a chansword and bolter, etc.), so it could be somewhat of a hodgepodge of things.

The next RPG (that I am aware of) is Inquisitor, published by GW directly under the Specialist Games brand. The RPG is known for being incredibly crunchy and tedious and cumbersome. Like Rogue Trader, the emphasis is more on players leading a warband (typically 3-5 models) rather than just one character, but the game is much more narratively driven than Rogue Trader was and plays much more like the typical RPG rather than the "narrative skirmish" that was 1st ed. Players principally play the titular Inquistiors with a warband or retinue of acolytes, followers, and hangers-on of all sorts of colorful types of different stripes.

After that, GW published Dark Heresy under its Black Industries sublabel of Black Library, which it closed down not long after publishing it. The game was republished by Fantasy Flight Games and was the first game built on the "Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay System" (which, if I understand correctly, was built around the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay System, but thats a different discussion). Dark Heresy has players paly the role of Inquisitorial acoloytes and followers (rather than the Inquisitor themselves, really the GM plays the Inquisitor, dispatching the party on various tasks and missions) with the goal of investigating and rooting out heresy, corruption, and crime. Dark Heresy is set in a specific sector of space which allowed it to focus down on specific narratives, organizations, planets, enemies, etc. rather than trying to capture and distill the full length and breadth of the galaxy. Fantasy Flight followed this up with 4 more RPGs built on the same Roleplay System, before later publishing a 2nd edition of Dark Heresy before GW pulled the license, some of them set in the same sector as Dark Heresy, others in adjacent sectors, essentially keeping the games somewhat contained and allowing more detailed exploration of the setting rather than trying to go "big picture" with things. The other games in the Warhammer 40,000 Roleplay System are:

  • Rogue Trader - Players play the role of a Rogue Trader and their crew/retinue (usually one player is the RT, the others the crew), exploring the galaxy to engage in trade, piracy, and general misadventures on the edges of the Imperium and beyond

  • Deathwatch - Players take the role of Space Marines in Deathwatch service and do Deathwatch Kill Team type stuff kicking down doors and murdering xenos scum.

  • Black Crusade - Players take the role of followers of chaos doing chaosy stuff, basically the players play the bad guys trying to take down the Imperium (and sometimes also eachother)

  • Only War - Players play the role of Imperial Guardsmen - very heavy combat/military RP focus in this one, and the game is best described as "nasty, brutal, and short" because your characters are basically at the bottom end of the power curve firing incredibly weak weapons that will miss more often than they hit and wearing armor made of cardboard held together with duct tape and bubble gum. IIRC it was designed with the expectation that you would lose ~80% of the party in an average combat scenario


  • The above are now all out of print, and were replaced by Wrath and Glory, originally designed/published by Ulisses Spiel, but not long after release was moved over to Cubicle 7 (for reasons unclear to me) who republished it (with updates) and have since been expanding it. The game attempts to be all things to all players and is designed to basically allow you to do "all of the above", but as a result suffers from "jack of all trades, master of none" and is built on an all new engine which might be a plus or a negative depending on who you ask. Likewise, rather than focusing on a smaller subsection of the setting, the game focuses more on the galaxy as a whole (with a focus on Imperium Nihilus, i.e. the part of the galaxy that has been cut off from Terra and the Astonomican), though it does provide a "sample setting" in the form of the Gilead System to help get you started (though its important to note that the Cubicle 7 revision fleshes out Gilead a lot more than the Ulisses version did and pushes it harder as the "default setting" for gameplay in a vein similar to how FFG used the Caliaxis Sector and the Koronus Expanse, etc)..

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    chaos0xomega wrote:
    The above are now all out of print...
    Well... I wouldn't say that they're completely out of print.

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    I really like the idea of playing an Inquisition Team or Rogue Trader crew as an RPG, with the GM being the Inquisitor or RT. As others have pointed out they are difficult to get a hold of. I was contemplating transcribing enough of the setting and armory to make work in a system akin to a faster-paced D&D 5e.
       
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    Hecaton wrote:
    Voss wrote:
     Sledgehammer wrote:
    Dark Heresy 2nd edition / Only War seem like great systems.


    Eh. Mechanically, they're really not. d100, roll under systems are honestly pretty bad regardless of the who's publishing (Chaosium had similar game mechanics, for example). Especially when starting stats are 30s-40s on average.


    Someone didn't read the section on how modifiers work...

    Or, more accurately, someone doesn't like bootstrapping flawed systems from the 1980s with a pile of drek just to make the basics work.
    Game design has moved on. Not everything is 'solved,' but we had lots and lots of examples of what doesn't work during the RPG explosion during the 1980s. 'It can be _made_ to work with a bunch of modifier bloat' was and is a terrible solution.
    Pick a dice system that gives you the result range you want baseline instead. I'd suggest dice pools or one of the functional 'roll and keep' systems instead (though there are several bad versions of that to avoid. >.> L5R).

    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/02/23 15:41:19


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    If you were looking for a dice system to homebrew 40k content on top of Spycraft or Shadowrun might be interesting starting points.

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