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 Nevelon wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
What about the Starfang/Vyper?

I think the question is more Unique HQs that also have a non-unique build out of their kit.

Yeah, that's my thinking. Dual kits aren't as plentiful as they used to be, but we still get them.

Considering GW's ongoing obsession with turning and keeping 40k a superhero-centric story, I think GW is now reluctant to diminish a named character's special features, especially those of a faction head, by handing them out to generic units. It doesn't seem like what they aim for these days.

I'm not categorically ruling out a dual kit, mind you. The Dais of Destruction might end up a new vehicle class and have shared base sprues for Vect's party mobile and a generic gun platform or whatever. As a presumably large vehicle its probably in the best position to go against what I suspect is GW's policy on named characters. But it isn't something I'd expect or believe until I see it.

It’s an odd balance.

We want the unique guys to actually be/feel unique

vs.

If we make a generic build, we can sell more than one to players. Also, they can make it Their Dudes for narrative/hobby reasons.

I’m trying to think of examples from the armies I play. Most marine characters (barring those with unique wargear options) could be fielded with generic dataslates. Simple head swap/paint job, and done. But most kits are just sold as Hero McHeroface, savior of the Imperium. And no mention of using them as a basic captain,

Nids? Hive Tyrant kit can build a Swarmlord. But old kit is old, from a different design era.

Eldar? Named characters are pretty distinct.

So, do you reckon these new Guard vehicles etc will go on preorder next saturday? Can't be long now..

Kinda want one Hanomag for my Krieg, although not sure how I'd convert it with WWII hanomag kits to make it look less GI Joe derp.. so will wait for scale comparisons.

That Inquisitor model however is a sure keeper. Loved it as soon as I laid eyes on it

 tauist wrote:
Kinda want one Hanomag for my Krieg, although not sure how I'd convert it with WWII hanomag kits to make it look less GI Joe derp.. so will wait for scale comparisons.

The main visual difference is the tracks, and you should be able to make 1:35 Sdkfz 251 tracks an arbitrary length by simply reducing the number of axles and road wheels. You can probably convert two Centaurs with one set of Sdkfz wheels. Then you just need to replace the engine cowling with a flat one rather than one covered in intakes, which should be simply a matter of cutting a bit of plasticard to fit. Maybe fit a gun shield over the heavy stubber if you are feeling fancy.
However, the Sdkfz seems like it would be really easy to resize by cutting along the centre-line and across the passenger compartment, so you can probably just build the entire vehicle from a 1:35 kit.

Armageddon stuff is next week’s pre-order.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/kvkfu6pq/sunday-preview-yarrick-returns-to-armageddon/

Thought as much.

Also, just realized that Comissaar's custom vehicle might just be the most "Genestealer Cult Limo" conversion worthy vehicle kit ever

Such a shame it'll probably be very expensive..

The new guard box is the least sci-fi force box I think I have ever seen in 40K. I know some people love that and they are cool models but in a universe that has flying alien tanks, demonic magic wielding sorcerers, Zerg, giant stoppy super robots a favorite faction are guys that look like they could be used for bolt action. lol. This is the wildness of 40K. Gotta love it.

Like many Guard players I don't have much interest in the new tanks. They just don't look 40K enough. A couple of tempting models for me though: Commissar Graves on foot (doesn't look like you can currently buy her without the mounted version though) and the Commissar Yarrick dice.

I really don't know what I'm going to do with all the dice I've accumulated over the years. Not sure I can pass on these though.

 tauist wrote:
Thought as much.

Also, just realized that Comissaar's custom vehicle might just be the most "Genestealer Cult Limo" conversion worthy vehicle kit ever

Such a shame it'll probably be very expensive..

I already got hold of a cheap broodcoven ready to be installed in their ride...

Prices

£160 ouchies right in my wallet. Bit less when I hopefully nab it from the FLGS.

Graves looks a lot more reasonable in price compared to the Inquisitor or Yarrick.

I think Yarrick costs app. as much as Ursula Creed and similar human-sized named characters and is thus absurdely overpriced.

For double the price, you get 2 x Commissar Graves (on foot and riding), her entire retinue plus her pimpmobile.

 Esmer wrote:
I think Yarrick costs app. as much as Ursula Creed and similar human-sized named characters and is thus absurdely overpriced.

For double the price, you get 2 x Commissar Graves (on foot and riding), her entire retinue plus her pimpmobile.

It's £62 for a fancy taurox (38) and a 25mm figure on foot. It is still absurdly overpriced.

Prices not getting any better for sure. I really would not mind picking individual minis just for painting but at £30ish a pop its not impulse. I do wonder the price of the small tank vehicle on its own because it's such a nice little model for a diorama.

Cadia are getting loads of love.

I don't see the prices being palatable from anyone for quite some time in plastic, with the current 'issues' around the cost and transit of the raw materials. Its definitely reaching the point where I'm only picking things up to finish off or add bits to existing armies, I just can't afford to start anything fresh now.

warl0rdb0b wrote:
I don't see the prices being palatable from anyone for quite some time in plastic, with the current 'issues' around the cost and transit of the raw materials. Its definitely reaching the point where I'm only picking things up to finish off or add bits to existing armies, I just can't afford to start anything fresh now.

People are rationalising it all over the place online, be it in here even as "not that bad given its a character on foot and a vehicle". If people want to buy a thing they will find a way to justify the spend simply.

It’s more expensive that I’d like for the Commissar Mobile. But I think I could be persuaded to get one for Necromunda Enforcers. Would need some weapon swap outs of course. But just look at that Aquila Bumper. That rolls into town? And you know the jig is up.

The standard version is fine, but lacks that very serious Pomp.

I'm sad to hear about new Crisis Suits honestly. I love the old design and they're absolutely iconic to me.
I've never liked the smooth battlesuit aesthetic we've been slowly transitioning into, but the writing's been appearing on the wall for a decade now.

Ultimately, not a huge bother. It's been decades since I bought a new kit directly off GW anyway.
I can get 'OoP' sculpts off China and 3d printing anyways.

Hopefully this refresh brings them into something more workable.
Tau felt very bad to play throughout 10th and the looming 11th changes only seem to be further kicking them in the dick.

Dudeface wrote:
People are rationalising it all over the place online, be it in here even as "not that bad given its a character on foot and a vehicle". If people want to buy a thing they will find a way to justify the spend simply.

I find I've grown pretty numb to the price of small luxuries when essentials have spiked so high that no matter what I deny myself, I can never ever reach the next bracket of wealth / standard of living.

warl0rdb0b wrote:
I don't see the prices being palatable from anyone for quite some time in plastic, with the current 'issues' around the cost and transit of the raw materials. Its definitely reaching the point where I'm only picking things up to finish off or add bits to existing armies, I just can't afford to start anything fresh now.

If things in the Middle East aren't resolved soon, we're going to see price rises across the board for plastic kits. Maybe GW even factored some of that into these prices. Setting that aside, even I am starting to baulk at the prices of some of these kits. Something like Graves and her ride will always get marked up, but £62 does seem excessive. I was comparing it to the prices for other vehicle kits, and that amount buys you a Land Raider Spartan (with some change left over), which is a substantial model. I'm sure it will still sell well - its ultimately a very appealing model, IMO, and does exactly what a WH40k command vehicle should do.

GW isn't so sensitive to production price rises because their product margin is already so generous.

That said, economic turmoil makes for a great excuse to raise prices if they think the market can be squeezed for more whilst avoiding ill-will from the customer. They might even get sympathy as a poor struggling company down in the trenches with the rest of us.

It's really eye watering to me how much GW costs now. I could not fathom starting a new army from scratch, using NiB official kits, at this point (even *with* a 3rd party discount).

Oil prices going up will spike prices on everything. I know people in haulage who are giving up because the fuel to run their lorries is getting so high now that its destroying all their income. Food gets a double hit that won't be felt for a while but will likely spike because doing all the drilling and so forth now is using up all that expensive oil that has to be paid for with the harvest and you can't just "not work" and wait for the prices to hopefully come back down.


It would be nice if world governments could settle down for a few years and let things get a bit more sane

Not sure which is the cheapest and most expensive army to collect these days but Imperial guard IIRC is one of the expensive ones? How many points are in this battleforce?

New edition will help people start Orks or Space Marine armies but either GW starts reducing model count for the armies or its becoming challenging to invest in new factions.

IG have always been on the expensive side with swarming units of infantry or lots of bulky tanks. Meanwhile Custodes have always been on the cheaper side with their elite marine style


Thing is I'd argue GW doesn't have to make armies smaller right now and that that would be the wrong approach. Most armies have a LOT of model variety and choice now and people want to play with their toys. Cutting army sizes down would mean fewer toys on the table and thus either you'd see people unhappy that so much of hteir collection is gathering dust; or the "2K standard" just pushes up to "4K standard"



The other thing is that we have Killteam and Combat Patrol as dedicated game formats GW markets and supports. People on tight budgets have two game formats that work with a single box purchase to play with whilst they grow their armies.

The only game I've seen GW pushing unit counts down in is Age of Sigmar - which has Underworlds and Battleforce games but has kind of lost the Warcry format for now*. AoS has seen infantry squads cut down a LOT however I do wonder if in part that's less "model count" and more a case of trying to balance them against elite and monster units without the infantry blocks just dominating the game every time.


*it seems like something GW wants to use but either can't work out how to make it work or they are rebranding in a big way or fizzled and can't fit it into production lists or such

 Overread wrote:
IG have always been on the expensive side with swarming units of infantry or lots of bulky tanks. Meanwhile Custodes have always been on the cheaper side with their elite marine style

As an oldie, I think it's a reduction in flavour but at least a new player doesn't have to have 25 models as one troop choice anymore for IG.

I have shortlisted myself with my FLGS for a Commissar Graves though. I have the funds for the AM Battalion but with The Damned arriving, I am backlogged at the moment.

 alphaecho wrote:

 Overread wrote:
IG have always been on the expensive side with swarming units of infantry or lots of bulky tanks. Meanwhile Custodes have always been on the cheaper side with their elite marine style

As an oldie, I think it's a reduction in flavour but at least a new player doesn't have to have 25 models as one troop choice anymore for IG.

Yeah or how Skaven now don't have Skaven Slaves so you don't have to buy stupidly large numbers of clanrats* just to field units that essentially do nothing but tarpit and die. There is a balance point between flavour and "OMG how many for so little"


*amusingly I recall that Gw never had a plastic slaves kit, just the clanrats or metal slaves so everyone used the clanrats. I also recall a slave sling weapon for the clanrat kit at one point, that very few used cause again it was a metal arm so you'd need a LOT of them.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Not sure which is the cheapest and most expensive army to collect these days but Imperial guard IIRC is one of the expensive ones? How many points are in this battleforce?

Depends if you go infantry horde I think. That tends to be expensive with any faction.

Ultimately when it comes down to value, it sort of depends on what you think is a fair price for things.
On the grounds that the individual vehicles are £40~ (the new Vyper was £38.50?) there is a £50-55~ discount versus the RRP. So a 25%~ discount. This rises if they are more.

YMMV on whether you think £40~ is a fair price for a small vehicle. But imo, its closer to reasonable than the near £30 GW now wants for infantry characters.

Its better than say the Eldar Corsair battleforce, which is only a discount if you think two small infantry characters are really worth £58~. (And that 10 jetpack elves are worth £75).

Guard are an odd one. In terms of GW’s styling, they’re possibly the most flexible.

A smelly Hooman might be the same shape as the next smelly Hooman, but uniforms can greatly vary the overall look, and with variety, widen the appeal.

Even sharing the common tanks? A Cadian army looks very different to a Krieg army, which looks different to a Catachan army.

Furthermore, within a single codex we can now ape a wider chunk of recent military history. Basically everything from WW1 up to and including Vietnam. We can also ape various tropes of those conflicts.

Best of all? If you’re really into one set of sculpts? You’re not actually tied into any specific army build. Yeah, if I wanted that chunky Krieg artillery for a Catachan force I need to some minor kitbashing. But I don’t think the rules actually prevent such a build? Not at all sure if Keywords might play a role there for synergy though.

 Overread wrote:

Thing is I'd argue GW doesn't have to make armies smaller right now and that that would be the wrong approach. Most armies have a LOT of model variety and choice now and people want to play with their toys. Cutting army sizes down would mean fewer toys on the table and thus either you'd see people unhappy that so much of hteir collection is gathering dust; or the "2K standard" just pushes up to "4K standard"

I'd argue that's the problem, it's a very ego-centric take that new people must suffer because of their sunk investment. Smaller forces don't hurt anyone but GWs bottom line but there's enough "bigger is best" enthusiasts that facilitate it. They likely also whinge about the prices whilst wanting to inflict them on people.