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2014/07/15 22:25:59
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Well, for what it's worth. When the image just leaked, I was actually considering. "You know, providing they reveal all the models and I like pretty much every one of them, I might get that Gencon bundle. Even if I don't end up playing the game, they're still be awesome minis."
However, I've actually been mostly put off of it now. A cut-down rulebook seems blergh. - I tried reading the free downloaded one on my tablet and it was pretty much impenetrable.
As someone new to the game, especially a skirmish one, I want to come in, buy the starter set, decide if I want to pick with those starting forces, maybe buy 1 or 2 other models to round them out and be bang, done, able to fully take part in the entire game with what I've bought in the starter, even if I don't necessarily know the entire rules for some other factions / variants (which is what, under my limited understanding, the Campaign books are?)
I mean, ultimately, the game would almost be competing with Deadzone for me, which, as it stands right now, you get more than a factions 'worth' plus the complete rules in the starter.
2014/07/15 22:37:00
Subject: Re:INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
And Koni has announced the GenCon prices in USD. $120 for the Icestorm Box (which seem right, and gives a $99 or less when discounted at an e-tailer, so Yay. $20 for Penny. $20 for the Cosplay Bolt. (which is too high a price, Imho. But the Penny price seems about $2-$3 too low.)
Siygess wrote: No, the purpose of the new N3 book is to sidle up to your 2nd edition book on your shelf, quietly shove it off when you aren't looking, and slot itself into the empty space between Human Sphere and Paradiso.
I totally get where Warboss is coming from and I think a lot of new players are going to be expecting the same thing - after all, all the 2 player starters I mentioned earlier include the full set of rules in the box. But aside from the fact that N3 isn't even out yet (and how that might fit in with their overall release strategy) I do think that you can't overstate the significance of having all the rules available for free online*. DZC, Warmachine, Hordes, Bolt Action, Flames of War.. the rules just aren't available for free. The best comparison would be, say, Malifaux, but I shudder to think what kind of a disaster would befall Wyrd in trying to create a two player starter.
So the question is, what would be more beneficial to a new player assuming the cost of the box were to say the same? A compact but complete rule book but lets say, no scenery? Or all the components you need to have a good, fun game with the limited rules you get in the box?
* ..the launch of N3 is also a great opportunity to unify (and merge!) the PDFs into one coherent document. Lets hope they make the most of that opportunity!
Oh I think there will still be a place for the ol' 2nd ed rulebook. There is still the art and the background, which considering how poorly organized the rules are ( they are.) these are the best parts of the book. N3 is rumored to have new artwork in it.
The complete basic ruleset (ie the ones from the N3 book) should be in the box, if nothing else as a B&W print on plain paper, the way user manuals are with many products (to keep cost down). I was under the impression that the Icestorm book did incorporate all the rules from the rulebook . However, no point arguing about it now. Just let me know when the N3 ruleset is downloadable. I should think they will be when Icestorm is released. Perhaps Koni could clue us in on that?
Combat Butler looks great. Not surprised, but I expect all the new Morat players will be very pleased. And the long time Morat players too.
Edit to add GenCon prices. And fix multiple typos And for clarity.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/07/16 04:23:46
2014/07/15 23:20:31
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Infinity, for all we say its cheaper to get into and play, is by definition more of a premium product than other games - you just have to look at the miniature quality and attention to detail to know that. The premium pricing shows this as well.
So many games, so little time.
So many models, even less time.
Screw it, Netflix and chill.
2014/07/16 00:43:12
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Downloadable N3 rules to not include stuff from later books.
The N3 book does actually consolidate all the rules, but only if you buy the new print book.
Anything else is a money grab. They're too concerned with the idea of potential money loss, when they should be more concerned with growing the game as best they can, and to do that they need rules consolidation.
It does not matter if a certain number of rules are free in poorly edited PDFs.
And no matter how anyone tries to spin this mess, consolidation of rules is a good thing and is what should be happening. The campaign or expansion books will still be viable and worthy of purchasing on their own if written well enough, and have enough content outside of a few add on rules.
I'm not sure I understand the whole "Needs full rules in the starter" complaint. With a free rulebook online and the level of complexity of Infinity I'd actually prefer a scenario based step-by-step walkthrough book to ease new players ,like me, in and then send them to the full ruleset.
The price point bugs me a little, but I'm going to GenCon so I really hope to pick up the package deal.
2014/07/16 01:02:10
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Mr.Church13 wrote: I'm not sure I understand the whole "Needs full rules in the starter" complaint. With a free rulebook online and the level of complexity of Infinity I'd actually prefer a scenario based step-by-step walkthrough book to ease new players ,like me, in and then send them to the full ruleset.
Or, you know, both...
2014/07/16 01:11:34
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Mr.Church13 wrote: I'm not sure I understand the whole "Needs full rules in the starter" complaint. With a free rulebook online and the level of complexity of Infinity I'd actually prefer a scenario based step-by-step walkthrough book to ease new players ,like me, in and then send them to the full ruleset.
Or, you know, both...
I imagine the price would be upped by some cost if they did both.
2014/07/16 01:22:58
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Mr.Church13 wrote: I'm not sure I understand the whole "Needs full rules in the starter" complaint. With a free rulebook online and the level of complexity of Infinity I'd actually prefer a scenario based step-by-step walkthrough book to ease new players ,like me, in and then send them to the full ruleset.
The price point bugs me a little, but I'm going to GenCon so I really hope to pick up the package deal.
CB also think that is the best way is to teach the core rules to. So they gets the basics down, and aren't trying to hack while still lreaning how FtF works. Something they very common. I played a guy not to long ago (who been playing for awhile) and had to tell him if you are not touching cover you don't get it, despite it being one of the clearer rules. Nothing like the "can I move my full move or half while using Dodge in my active turn" question, witch truthfully if the bothered to read is clear as well. But, so many miss this becouse they don't read the whole rules and want to read Hacking or some other non-core rules becouse they let you do cool stuff.
From day one it was known the O:IS box would only have a "quick start" style rule book, meaning just the rules need to learn the basics so they can be ready to move on the more complex rules. People just wishlisted for a full book, it like getting up set in the rule rumor thread on CB forum over the wishlisting thinking there real rules, funny but pointless.
Mr.Church13 wrote: I'm not sure I understand the whole "Needs full rules in the starter" complaint. With a free rulebook online and the level of complexity of Infinity I'd actually prefer a scenario based step-by-step walkthrough book to ease new players ,like me, in and then send them to the full ruleset.
Or, you know, both...
I imagine the price would be upped by some cost if they did both.
No, no you can't bring common sense in to this .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/16 01:25:04
Peter: As we all know, Christmas is that mystical time of year when the ghost of Jesus rises from the grave to feast on the flesh of the living! So we all sing Christmas Carols to lull him back to sleep.
Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor.
2014/07/16 01:59:12
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
CB is not perfect but it did this release pretty well. For a new player who should at least get in 10ish games with the basic rules before they start with the harder stuff, this pack is awesome, it appears to give 2 200 point armies, with dice, scenery ect. EVERYTHING you need to start to play the game and enjoy it for a while. It is not perfect but no starter box is going to be the price, material, number of minis, and balance you want it. CB seemed to choose a decent price, balance (at least point wise), solid number of minis for the game and material, but left would a full inclusive rules. Some will get their panties in a twist and they are free to do so. It is a free world after all and as long as it is not negative so be it. However I think time will tell if CB did it right but in my eyes, (and to some degree straight up objectively but I will leave that) there are a lot of check marks in the pros side and very few in the cons.
2014/07/16 03:09:22
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
I bet anything that if N3 did consolidate all of the rules, the last 10 pages would be raging about how everyone just bought paradiso and human sphere and now they are useless. Gamers are funny.
2014/07/16 03:14:27
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Alpharius wrote: At this point we probably need to get back On Topic here, and take the debate on starter rules, full rules, etc. down to the Infinity Sub-Forum.
Thanks!
2014/07/16 03:17:52
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Soooo uses for the Cosplay bolt to justify picking her up in the bundle? Don't they have something like 6 bts? Maybe she'd be a solid defensive hacker if you didn't also want one of those kam-somethings, the aquatic unit. Since the starter doesn't look like it contains a unit with a strong lean towards hacker. At least to my limited understanding of Pan-O.
I'm doing a learn to play session for infinity at Gencon, I wonder if they'll be using the N3 rules or sticking to their guns in terms of v2 until N3 is fully released? Should be fun and informative either way!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/16 03:19:18
2014/07/16 03:20:46
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
GrimDork wrote: Soooo uses for the Cosplay bolt to justify picking her up in the bundle?
My justification for picking up the Bolt promo is that it comes with a "free" Penthesilea which I'll be getting anyways. I play both Aleph and Haqqislam, and getting an Aleph character in Haqqislam gear that fits with the Kum riders is awesome.
In a sense, it's more like I'm buying Icestorm and Penthesilea and getting a free Bolt. Not a fan of the cheesecake too much, but the squished Koala-bot is amusing enough to warrant consideration and nice to get free.
2014/07/16 03:36:08
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
GrimDork wrote: Soooo uses for the Cosplay bolt to justify picking her up in the bundle?
Maybe as a Bolt?
This is the sort of special edition model I don't like. It like them to be generic, and either with no profile (like a civvie) or with a profile usable by any faction (like Miranda Ashcroft). This appeals only to people with a PanO force, or who are planning a PanO force, and who also like pinup models. Pretty narrow scope.
2014/07/16 03:49:19
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Well, i'm getting her with icestorm and penny, 'cause bundle. I may even just get op:i, i'll decide when i see them all. I'm just figuring to add her to the pan-o force and that maybe she'd make a good defensive hacker, nab another fusileer and a cheap squalo from ebay or miniature market and i'll have some kind of force... i guess. Wasn't looking for another one, but when it'll be so easy to nail something down...
2014/07/16 03:51:53
Subject: Re:INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
GW vs CB has its own dedicated threads.
Books are sold for their campaign/mission content, fluff, & art. Straight up rules & army lists have been online, legally or not, for years now.
When are yu jing terra cotta HI coming?
Will Haqq Caliphate have a dedicated TAG? No more merc tags please...
Any news on the dropships?
Is Icestorm a starter for infinity? Or will they continue releasing boxed sets with 2 forces on a regular basis?
Is that a natural 21?
Nomads & Yu Jing
2014/07/16 03:55:52
Subject: Re:INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
GW vs CB has its own dedicated threads.
Books are sold for their campaign/mission content, fluff, & art. Straight up rules & army lists have been online, legally or not, for years now.
When are yu jing terra cotta HI coming?
Will Haqq Caliphate have a dedicated TAG? No more merc tags please...
Any news on the dropships?
Is Icestorm a starter for infinity? Or will they continue releasing boxed sets with 2 forces on a regular basis?
Oh please don't let them do that last one. If O:I is really good I might be homeless buying Infinity boxes.
2014/07/16 04:34:11
Subject: Re:INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Next month. We already know this. Terracotta HMG is first up, then probably special weapon box later, and LI in the Invincible army starter (the Terracotta warriors are their 'line infantry').
Bladerunner2019 wrote: Will Haqq Caliphate have a dedicated TAG? No more merc tags please...
Yes. The Caliphate is the home of the Maghariba Guard, so we already have it. CB already said a while ago Haqqislam wouldn't see more TAGs, but we'd see more super soldiers in the Caliphate list, as their linked to the Al Medinat. So beefed up Khawarij, soldiers along the lines of Tarik, Muhk'tair (super Asawira - Bostria said these guys make Ajax 'look like a slowed monkey').
overtyrant wrote: Wait, so this new rulebook N3 WONT have all the rules in to play? Will they still be spread across 3 (now 4) really expensive books? Please say this aint so. I thought CB were trying to move away from all this complicated gak. If true how hard can it be to put the rules in ONE book. If the new book does contain all the rules then disregard my rant
They said that the new rulebook (which I don't when will be coming out, but I guess it will follow closely the box) only substitutes the 2nd Ed rulebook.
so if I don't want a print out (pure tack) how many books will I need?
N3 (whenever it's published) + Human Sphere (for fireteams and new skills) + Campaign: Paradiso (if you need Spec-Ops rules, and a few new skills and weapons) = 3
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/16 06:00:36
2014/07/16 06:04:58
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
Maybe it's just me, but I'd actually like to see more Merc TAGs. Especially since the mercs are supposed to eventually get their own sectorial. I'd like to see the Caplans get a generic TAG and maybe a watered down mass production TAG for the Druze.
Fair enough not sure how likely it is seeing as they have Scarface and some whole factions only have 1 (or 0) TAGs, but the more TAGs the merrier I say!
2014/07/16 06:50:07
Subject: INFINITY News & Rumors - July's New Releases on Pg. 325!
-Loki- wrote: Unless you play Aleph or Tohaa, then you need to add the New Units PDF for anything from Acheron Falls (like the Nikoul).
There will be a few new units in N3 for the first factions, yes, but needing the .pdf files is something that eventually will reach all the factions, until Acheron Falls is released. And when it's released my previous answer will have to change from 3 to 4.
And for clarity.
.
