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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I've been waiting and waiting and I still haven't heard a single rumor about what will be in the new Ork Codex. 

Doesn't anyone have any inside info?  Please!!!!  Throw me a bone here? 

   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The House that Peterbilt

Other then its scheduled to release about a year from now?

I doubt they'll be much in the way of rumours until after the eldar codex is released. Even then i'd expect to wait until after the Dark Angels codex before any real juicy stuff gets unveiled.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Salt Lake City, Utah

Personally, I hope they push back the release another year or so.  My Tyranids went from being one of my most powerful armies to being one of my weakest.

With my Speed Freaks currently my favorite army to play, the thought of them getting nerfed like my nids just fills me with dread.

Remember, new codex does not mean better codex.


Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.  
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando



Texas

But it means new ork minis, which are really needed, especially for the outdated vehicles.

Copy at your own risk 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Salt Lake City, Utah

Nah,

Half the fun of orks is scratch-building your own vehicels, anyway.

Man, that's the joy of Anime! To revel in the complete and utter wastefullness of making an unstoppable nuclear-powered combat andriod in the shape of a cute little girl, who has the ability to fall in love and wears an enormous bow in her hair.  
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut






In da Mekshop

But if the new ork models are anything like the new orc fantasy models, then I think I would rather NOT have a new codex.

A nerfing of the ork codex is quite a fear. No one considers them overpowered at all, yet I can see some evil things in the works...

The ork codex doesn't really need all that much. It just needs to consolidate the Speed Freeks into the regular codex list, so they all use the same wargear and vehicle upgrades. A few wargear choices need to be tweaked (like the 'Uge Choppa), and then the list needs to allow for building of any kind of ork clan based army.

I think seeing some fun things like the Shokk Attack Gun make a comeback would be great, and the rumored plastic Stompa would be at the top of my list to see.

A couple of changes like making the Waagh check and mob check work off Wounds and not 'heads' would be a great change, since Warbosses and Nobz should generate more Waaagh than a boy does. This would also make it easier for a warboss and retinue to get their Waaagh to work when there is only a handful of Nobz with the Boss.

-GrimTeef-
Proud mod of The-Waaagh forum and Vice-President of the Brian Nelson is a Sculpting God Club 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Last Czarnian






The Northwest Territory

Shokk Attack gunz would be cool.


But I think more importantly, as Grimteef said, making mob checks work off of wounds instead of model count would be friggin' sweet.

Although something like that just makes too much sense for GW, it would seem.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I'm hoping for Weirdboyz, Warpeadz and Squiggoths.  Also, I saw in the concept are Squig riders.  That would be cool too.  BAH, I hate waiting.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

I'm hoping for Weirdboyz, Warpeadz and Squiggoths.


Dito that.

I heard a good rumor from an ex employee of GW, so take it with a grain of salt, but still fun to think about.

I was told that the new trukk kit would be Rhino sized and with it you would be able to build most of the orc vehicles, ie.: trukks, buggies, gunwagons, etc.

now that would be really cool.

but, i agree with grimteef, the trump card is the orc stompa. if they do a good job with that, good night nurse. i think we will se a large influx of orc players, which is nothing but cool in my book.

   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Canada

Indeed the trukk/everthing kit has been confirmed from inside sources.

"Nothing from the outside world can be imported into Canada without first being doused in ranch dressing. Canadian Techs have found that while this makes the internet delicious it tends to hamper the bandwidth potential. Scientists are working furiously to rectify the problem. "

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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





It will be interesting to see what they do with Orks. Marines were strong, they only got better. Tau also got better overall. Nids may be an exception, but there is a pretty strong trend of Codex Creep. So, considering that Orks are by far the worst Codex right now, it will be interesting to see how they're handled. I think they could take numerous improvements across the board, and not be overpowered.

A little tweak to the Waagh check isn't gonna cut it.

Speed Freeks and Feral Orks are, obviously, not quite as bad off as the normal boyz, but I think too many people apply their success to the basic Ork Codex... And neither list is in there.

Long story short, the Ork Codex is really the only one that truly NEEDS a rewrite. The Eldar probably deserve one, but it's an endless irritation to me that the Orks don't get a rework. They needed a new one before Marines, Tau, Nids... Hell, they needed one before Tau even were released...



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Made in gb
Been Around the Block




England

I don't really understand why it's been left for so long. I mean, the general reason GW update an army is to make more money, na ja? (Let's here it for the Marines, Nids and Tau...) But why leave the Orks so long? Historically they're one of the most popular armies (don't know if that's the case now), they have a dire need for new vehicle models, they're a horde so their armies are necessarily big (and costly), and I reckon that a flush of decent new models would pursuade most players with an existing army to either add a few new ones or upgrade the old.
Alas - a year to go...

"Love turns, with a little indulgence, to indiference and disgust - only hate is immortal" - William Hazlitt 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut



Sanford, Fl

Check out White Dwarf #321 in the US.  It is mostly about the new Orc and Gobblin codex and there are some articles about the new models.

Some items also about the new stuff for LOR and Eldar.

Other than that not much else.

 

   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User




Just an idea for those fellow Ork players out there - and this is something I will be doing in the next few months.

How about using the Lord of the Rings War Mumak to make a Squiggoth.  It would take a little bit of conversion but it is plastic  after all and cheaper than the forge world version.

My thought is to make one up and use the Squiggoth rules found in the Feral Orks list with the normal Ork codex - at tournaments just give it the same stats as a Battlewagon with a few bits of wargear.

 

   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






San Diego, California

Squiggoths are so bad arse! they kick butt.

But i agree, the Orks do need a power boost. I am against codex creep on the whole, but what i think every codex does need is flexibility. You dont need uber units, you need the ability to field a wide variety of units and combos. that is what keeps armies fresh and fun. A huge part of the effectiveness of marine and chaos lists is the huge amount of variations you can field with your force within the codex.

Every army needs that kind of variety, IMHO. people would enjoy their amries more, buy more models and would allow for a greater degree of tactical flexibility in game, makeing that army more effective.

on topic:

I alos heard from the same ex GW employee, that Jes Goodwin was doing a lot of the orcs, which would be great, i really like his work.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





You know, I've been reluctant to make a Feral or Speed freak army because I don't know if they'll be included in the next codex. I'd hate to make an army, and by the time I'm finished, have it be totally useless because it's not in the new dex. I'll say it once again, BAH!!!!! I HATE WAITING!!!!!!
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut






In da Mekshop

Phryxis - a little tweak to the mob check is not ALL that is needed, but the orks on the whole only need so much. The majority of ork players are generally happy with the codex as is, aside from some fixes and tweaks.

Ork players on the whole are not powergamers and only want to compete on an even playing field, and at The-Waaagh I don't hear a lot about people complaining that the orks are underpowered and still hear about plenty of ork wins over da Beakies. As long as nothing is taken away from the current codex and only some things are added, ork players on the whole will be happy. A power boost would be nice, but a large boost is not necessary.

With any luck, Speed Freeks and Feral Orks will be something that can be done with the general codex. I see no reason why this cannot happen, along with the Clans. It would make the new ork codex very versatile, fun, and would draw in a lot of players, old and new.

Holy Mecha - the majority of ork players agree that the Eldar needed help before the boyz did. At least that's the way it seemed on The Waaagh.

Reecius - Jes Goodwin is good, but BAH! I want Brian Nelson on the orks! No one else has done as much good for the orks as he has. I hope that the absence of a lot of his work lately can be attributed to his working feverishly on new ork models. Jes is good, but the orks need Nelson to really thrive as a model range.

Jes has done a LOT for the new Eldar, and I would think that there is a lot of work going on concurrently with the ork models. Considering how long it takes to get stuff designed, approved, sculpted, and approved again, then made into sprues and molds, I would think that 2 teams would need to be working nearly simultaneously to get that amount of work out within the time frame that we are all expecting. If Jes is doing a lot of Eldar AND a lot of the orks, don't think he's sleeping much.

I pray to Gork and Mork that Nelson is on the ork range. His talent is generally missed on the new orc fantasy range, with only the warboss character model to be released showing his trademark style. Perbet must be doing the fantasy orcs and gobbos, they look like they might be his, as the sculpting is good but not quite there compared to Nelson's orcs from last editions set.

-GrimTeef-
Proud mod of The-Waaagh forum and Vice-President of the Brian Nelson is a Sculpting God Club 
   
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[DCM]
The Last Czarnian






The Northwest Territory

I don't think a tweak to the mob check is the only thing that needs to be done, I just think it would be a step in the right direction.  Honestly, something that probably should have been tweaked before now.  Obviously, a new codex needs more than just a step in the right direction - it needs to have actually arrived at the right place.  Hopefully, that means a place where orks are not overpowered, but definately have an even playing field.  A Waaagh should be a force to be reckoned with.

   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





The majority of ork players are generally happy with the codex as is, aside from some fixes and tweaks.


I'd attribute that more to a positive attitude on their part than to the reality of the Codex. I can't really see them as being anything but the worst list in the game. They have WS4, 2A and Choppas. That's it. Everything else is subpar. They pretty much don't get saves... They mostly have S3... They're an assault biased force with I2...

I could see them getting major improvements in multiple areas and still being a perfectly fair list. S4 across the board, with S5 for Skarboyz seems fair to me (and vastly more fluffy). Cost decrease on Klaws...

Maybe I'm just not any good with them, but I'm really not impressed with the whole "they just take practice" thing people say about weak armies. Fine, you go practice, and while you're doing that I'll also be practicing with my Blood Angels, only I won't need it, because I can pretty much send the whole army off in a corner to have s'mores, while the Death Company rolls over the table like a black wave of easy-to-win-with.

I don't care how clever people get with Grot screens, if you have to get your whole army working in perfect concert to even have a chance, that's no good. SM Assault Squads just come crashing in with Power Fists, and hordes of I4 S4 attacks. It takes very minimal forethought to get a charge when and where you want it.

Not that Orks CAN'T win... But name a list that's harder to win with?



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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Depends on who's playing with them.

I be you could win with nids or dark eldar or perhaps even tau on your first game against an experienced player, but you get better. Orks are just one of those armies that takes time to get better other than, "i don't need to worry about tactical flexibility because they're marines"

Secondly orks ar not close combat biased. if you've ever been on the recieving end of a bad moon army of flash gitz, big shootas, rokkit launchas and kustom mega blastas you'll know what i'm on about.

Then there's speed freeks, are they close combat biased?. Most definitly not. Hit and run tactics using their guns as much as the do thier choppas.

Then you say the rest of the army is all about cc?. So what if they are I2 if there's enough of them there they get double I auto anyway. Then if a 10 man marine squad doesn't fall to a 20-30 strong mob of sluggas then there is something very wrong in this world.

To be honest as an ork player i never play 'to win' i play for sh*ts and giggles, you win, so what. Did you opponent enjoy the game as you black marines of doom got into 2nd turn combat and lost right there right then? i'm gonna go out on a limb and say no.

   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


The fact that the majority of the Ork players feel that very little needs to be done to the codex (if that is truly the case) is immaterial. The current Ork players make up only a small percentage of overall players, and that's the whole problem!

These are the same people who constantly say: Why do we need new Ork vehicle models, half the fun is converting Ork vehicles yourself!!!

It's like Ork players are punk rockers. They like their little niche and they don't want their army going mainstream cause then they'll feel like what makes the army special to them isn't theirs alone anymore.

BULLCRAP!

Orks should be just as much an uber-power army as any other codex. We should see (non-Feral) Orks at the top of GT winner lists again.


If GW just does make a few changes here and there to the Ork codex after nearly 8 years, I say shame on them.


Footslogger Orks *cannot* be tooled to outshoot a shooty army. They are to slow and too expensive to be a true horde army. They lack durability and the truly poweful CC unit to be an elite CC army.

In short, they do a whole bunch of things decent, but nothing really well.


Orks deserve better. They deserve a massive line of new models after 8 years and they deserve to have a truly strong army list after 8 years.



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yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Made in us
[DCM]
The Last Czarnian






The Northwest Territory

Posted By yakface on 09/16/2006 3:57 AM

Orks deserve better. They deserve a massive line of new models after 8 years and they deserve to have a truly strong army list after 8 years.



Hear, hear!  Yakface speaks the truth.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Colorado

I also agree with Yakface. They need an army list that gives you pause when considering them vs. Marines. They are a standard in the 40k universe and they deserve do be played as much that it shows.

To the guy that says Orks are played so your opponent has a good time. I've got to admit, the last few times I've played against Orks, it hasn't been fun, because most of my time is spent consoling my opponent when I blow all his stuff off the board, and his guys are dying in droves.

While the wicked stand confounded
call me, with thy saints surrounded 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut






In da Mekshop

Whoa Whoa WHOA there, Tex! I agree that orks deserve the best shot imaginable, and deserve a hell of a lot of new models. I would rather that there were proper models for everything in the ork codex than having to scraatch build so much - that will bring in new blood! I'm all for that. I think that one big problem with the ork list is that so much DOES need to be converted, and your general player does not have the time, skill, or money, (or all three) to really get into the orks. If orks get new kit, then that will bring in more ork players. Gork knows that I don't have the time to convert everything in some way anymore.

I think what I'm getting at is that I don't want orks to be used as an example of being overpowered in the same breath as marines. That should never happen. I would hate to see the orks turned into some cheese-fest list. I want to see them competitive as much as the next greenskin. Perhaps that is what it will take for orks to become more popular, since so many players seem to be the win-at-all-costs types. I win with my orks as much as I lose. If they get some more strength, fine, but I just don't want to hear that the list of overpowered armies includes orks.

I want people to have a good time playing against a greenskin army. That's a part of it, but it is not the only thing. I want them to have a good time trying to think about how the heck to beat me as well, and not have to worry about how to make it look sporting as they blast us off the table.

-GrimTeef-
Proud mod of The-Waaagh forum and Vice-President of the Brian Nelson is a Sculpting God Club 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
The Last Czarnian






The Northwest Territory

Well, the thing about over-powered lists is, if all the lists are really powerful, none of them would be over-powered.  GW just needs to standardize the power levels - that means balancing the army lists.

Personally, I don't want to hear about any army being overpowered.  Obviously that's not the case currently, but I think it is something GW should strive for.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





I've only been playing Orks for a little while, and don't get me wrong, I love the Greenskins.  But it's true, that, compared to other armies, they do seem to be underpowered.  Particularly when all the fluff describes an ork Waagh as this unstoppable force of nature.  It seems the power that the actual strength of an ork army does not match the fluff strength that they are supposed to have.  

It bugs me that they don't have any psychic abilities.  Especially when, as a race, all orks are supposed to be psychic creatures.  And it bothers me that, so much of the codex is useless.  50% of the Wargear and half of the units in the codex never get used because their not worth the points.  When was the last time anyone used a unit of stikkbomberz?

I think the orks definitely need some tweaking.  That being said, I still love the Orks.  Win or lose, they're the funnest army in the game.

   
Made in us
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets




Da Southern New Hampshire!

Honestly, if youre gonna steamroll me, I just wont play you again. My mistake. Why play a game you dont like? Or more importantly, gainst a person you dont like?

I play the Kult of Speed, they seem fine to me, then again, I havent played in so long.

I agree that the options do suck in the codex. Honestly, Stikkbommas? I call my warboss (thank fully you dont need one in a KoS list) Warboss Pointsinka.

If at first you don't succeed, you fail. 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




Canada

Well all I care about is that they don't replace any of the beautiful Nelson models with non-Nelson sculpts like they've done with the new Orcs and Goblins.

"Nothing from the outside world can be imported into Canada without first being doused in ranch dressing. Canadian Techs have found that while this makes the internet delicious it tends to hamper the bandwidth potential. Scientists are working furiously to rectify the problem. "

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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





Did you opponent enjoy the game as you black marines of doom got into 2nd turn combat and lost right there right then?


I don't mean to be a dick, but this is the punchline to all the "[insert underpowered army] aren't actually underpowered" arguments. It's basically undercutting your whole point, on the way to trying to support it. Not only are you using fun as a variable in a discussion purely about army power, but you're also tacitly implying that Orcs would never be able steamroll anybody, and thus tend to be more fun to play against.

They're not a good army. I think we both know that. They might be a fun army. Hell, I painted 1500+ points of them, knowing all along how terrible they are, just cause I do like kustomizing vehicles, painting orks, hacking up models, etc. They're fun, have personality, all that. But they blow worse than any other list in the game. You can win a game or two... Practice helps... But they're probably as weak as the Death Company is overpowered, and that's pretty terrible.

Like I said, name a list that's harder to win with than Codex Orks. I don't think there is one, at least not in the mainstream of Codexes (maybe WD released one of their slowed "Imperial Guard with close combat weapon" armies that'd be worse).

Sure, as I admitted, there's some variants that are tougher, namely KOS and Feral Orks, but they're not the whole of the list, nor even in the actual Codex. The classic, fluffy, mob of orks on foot and in trukks... Blows.



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Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




The funny thing is that in almost every other game I can think of the Orcs are one of the strongest, if not the strongest army in the game. In 40K Orks are no good at the moment. This hasn't always been so, as we can probably all still remember how near unbeatable the KoS was in the previous edition where you could assault out from your armoured tops and Trukks and Buggies could hold quarters. All in all this whole new 'dynamic' edition of 40K is a complete failure and the Orks and the new Eldar reflect it best. You can't be an assault army if you can't use transports.

The entire problem of transports being too powerful would've been perfectly fixed with the new damage table along with its entanglement rules, especially when combined with the fact that dedicated transports can't hold quarters or objectives. To not be able to assault from closed top transports was completely unnecessary. The local retailers here say they sell about one Rhino kit per month now, if that.

Like I said, name a list that's harder to win with than Codex Orks.

Dark Eldar.

Well, as Ed Maule once famously said: "Therion's from Finland, where comp does not exist. Where he's from the trash we're forced to field for a tournament would lose to a 12 year old." - bigchris1313 
   
 
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