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What is GW going to do to fix the new Astra Militarum codex mess in tournaments they have created?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

 Marmatag wrote:


And don't tell me it's random as an excuse, the expected outcome of a d6 is 3-4 shots, and you'll have a grip of mortars, so your standard deviation is pretty reliable. You will be firing a ton of shots.



No one did tell you being random was an excuse. In fact, the average outcomes math was done for you already. Turns out, it was more favourable for the tempest launcher.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in us
Kid_Kyoto






Probably work

 Marmatag wrote:
Except it's incredibly difficult to address mortars because they're a bunch of MSU... you have to split fire by gun, so how do you address them without overkill?

And don't tell me it's random as an excuse, the expected outcome of a d6 is 3-4 shots, and you'll have a grip of mortars, so your standard deviation is pretty reliable. You will be firing a ton of shots.

Daedalus as a GK player you should understand how good mortars are, considering around 1000 points in any GK list is a way to field & protect mortar teams.


Each one is a bit less than a Grey Knight's worth of point blank firepower at 48" with no LOS for about half the points. Yeah. I get why they're hated.

The tempests are a nastier version of the exact same thing. The mortar teams might need more bullets to kill (I haven't actually tried that math) but it's a whole lot easier to hide 3 dark reapers than it is 9 mortars.

Assume all my mathhammer comes from here: https://github.com/daed/mathhammer 
   
Made in gb
Commanding Lordling





 Marmatag wrote:

gungo wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
Blood and Glory UK official tournament

1st place Ynnari-Eldar soup
2nd place Chaos Soup
3rd place Dark Angels Dreadnoughts

Most played army Chaos soup

Astra Militarum didn't even get a look in


Astra militarum was all over that dark angels list..... furthermore chaos will continue to be broken until FW updates their busted units list aka the maelific lord.... I really don't like how GW punts the ball on FW everytime someone brings up how broken or underpowered a unit is.... My only hope is that GW takes a serious look at fw units in their chapter approved book.

ALSO blood and glory was as large a venue as NOVA... it is not a small venue.


AM is all over any imperium winning list. I already posted effectively what the typical competitive DA list is with dreadnoughts. Although it's possible things have changed, i've been doing a lot of painting and casual play lately.


Blood & Glory's lists all have the shared faction keyword as the army keyword, so AM weren't in the top three at all.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 daedalus wrote:

Each one is a bit less than a Grey Knight's worth of point blank firepower at 48" with no LOS for about half the points. Yeah. I get why they're hated.

The tempests are a nastier version of the exact same thing. The mortar teams might need more bullets to kill (I haven't actually tried that math) but it's a whole lot easier to hide 3 dark reapers than it is 9 mortars.

I don't think this is a useful comparison. You can't bring the Exarch without at least two other reapers, which are fine but not nearly as good as the Exarch. You can't hide the squad for more than a turn unless you want to sacrifice the shooting from the other reapers. You have to screen the squad, and this is hard for Eldar to do. Reapers are powerful but they're worth shooting at. If you can get a BS3+ twin assault cannon in there (and the tempest launcher only has a 36" range so it's not way in the back) you expect to kill 60 points' worth in cover, not counting the Exarch's multiple wounds. Each heavy bolter expects to kill 12 points of reaper.

Meanwhile you're not paying any tax to bring mortar squads -- a squad of Dark Reaper Exarchs would be overpowered, I agree. You could hide them, but you don't even need to because they're dirt cheap. You could screen them -- you're Guard -- but you don't need to and you can actually use the mortar squad itself as a screen. Nobody's going to deep strike in to kill a 33 point squad. They're barely worth shooting at. They're paying 5.5 points per GEQ wound, which is only as much as you're paying in an Infantry squad with a lascannon, so they're an unappealing target for most anti-infantry guns. But it's also overkill to waste multi-damage weapons on them -- a BS3+ lascannon only expects to kill 5.6 points' worth of mortar team. Incidentally it expects to kill 10 points' worth of Dark Reaper in cover.
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Your tourney doesn't exist because I said so.....

Well....

Feed the poor war gamer with money.  
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Burnage wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:

gungo wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
Blood and Glory UK official tournament

1st place Ynnari-Eldar soup
2nd place Chaos Soup
3rd place Dark Angels Dreadnoughts

Most played army Chaos soup

Astra Militarum didn't even get a look in


Astra militarum was all over that dark angels list..... furthermore chaos will continue to be broken until FW updates their busted units list aka the maelific lord.... I really don't like how GW punts the ball on FW everytime someone brings up how broken or underpowered a unit is.... My only hope is that GW takes a serious look at fw units in their chapter approved book.

ALSO blood and glory was as large a venue as NOVA... it is not a small venue.


AM is all over any imperium winning list. I already posted effectively what the typical competitive DA list is with dreadnoughts. Although it's possible things have changed, i've been doing a lot of painting and casual play lately.


Blood & Glory's lists all have the shared faction keyword as the army keyword, so AM weren't in the top three at all.

We still haven't seen the list. Or the tournament results...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Colonel Cross wrote:
Lol your complaint is now how to not Overkill them? Absurd.
11 point single units with multiple wounds...it's actually tougher than you'd think. They still work with 1 wound so a non kill is a disaster. over-killing is also a disaster.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/08 16:25:10


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba





 Xenomancers wrote:
Burnage wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:

gungo wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
Blood and Glory UK official tournament

1st place Ynnari-Eldar soup
2nd place Chaos Soup
3rd place Dark Angels Dreadnoughts

Most played army Chaos soup

Astra Militarum didn't even get a look in


Astra militarum was all over that dark angels list..... furthermore chaos will continue to be broken until FW updates their busted units list aka the maelific lord.... I really don't like how GW punts the ball on FW everytime someone brings up how broken or underpowered a unit is.... My only hope is that GW takes a serious look at fw units in their chapter approved book.

ALSO blood and glory was as large a venue as NOVA... it is not a small venue.


AM is all over any imperium winning list. I already posted effectively what the typical competitive DA list is with dreadnoughts. Although it's possible things have changed, i've been doing a lot of painting and casual play lately.


Blood & Glory's lists all have the shared faction keyword as the army keyword, so AM weren't in the top three at all.

We still haven't seen the list. Or the tournament results...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Colonel Cross wrote:
Lol your complaint is now how to not Overkill them? Absurd.
11 point single units with multiple wounds...it's actually tougher than you'd think. They still work with 1 wound so a non kill is a disaster. over-killing is also a disaster.


11 point single units? What are we talking about here? Mortar HWTs are fixed 3-man units, six T3 5+ wounds. The biggest issue with killing them is actually getting LOS to them, since they're such little duders and they frequently get stuck behind a building.


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Commanding Lordling





 Xenomancers wrote:
Burnage wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:

gungo wrote:
WatcherZero wrote:
Blood and Glory UK official tournament

1st place Ynnari-Eldar soup
2nd place Chaos Soup
3rd place Dark Angels Dreadnoughts

Most played army Chaos soup

Astra Militarum didn't even get a look in


Astra militarum was all over that dark angels list..... furthermore chaos will continue to be broken until FW updates their busted units list aka the maelific lord.... I really don't like how GW punts the ball on FW everytime someone brings up how broken or underpowered a unit is.... My only hope is that GW takes a serious look at fw units in their chapter approved book.

ALSO blood and glory was as large a venue as NOVA... it is not a small venue.


AM is all over any imperium winning list. I already posted effectively what the typical competitive DA list is with dreadnoughts. Although it's possible things have changed, i've been doing a lot of painting and casual play lately.


Blood & Glory's lists all have the shared faction keyword as the army keyword, so AM weren't in the top three at all.

We still haven't seen the list. Or the tournament results...


The results are on Facebook. The top 10 were;

1: Aeldari
2: Chaos
3: Dark Angels
4: Chaos
5: Imperium
6: Astra Militarum
7: Chaos Daemons
8: Chaos
9: Chaos
10: Aeldari
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






What is the dark angels list? I have seen that list on blood of kittens.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
 
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