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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





With the release of the new AM codex there has been some playtesting with the new rules. I am an avid AM player and have done exceedingly well with the AM index book never even using conscripts. AM was already the dominating army our local meta for both games and tournaments. In every tournament or event in 8th an AM list has won it.

WIth the previews, reviews, and leaks that have come out my gaming group is very concerned after play games to test out some lists. The new AM codex with unit buffs, points reductions, strategems and new relics just outclasses everything. Even armies with their recent codexes have not survived past turn 3 or 4. Index armies have zero chance of winning. The amount of firepower the Cadians can do by rerolling all hits and the damage the Catachans are capable of doing by rerolling the number of shots is insane. Honestly, it was so bad one player said he would never play AM in its current form again. It was obvious that neither player had fun because the AM player felt bad and his opponent had zero fun.

So now we are now forced to make some hard decisions for our upcoming events. Do we completely ban all new Codex AM from our events and only use the index, or ban several units, or make other changes. We don’t want to ruin both gamers experiences and want everyone to feel they have a chance to win. Our games have shown some AM units/buffs are just to good for what they cost.

This is just our initial list:

1) The Cadian trait to reroll all failed to hits makes units insanely to good especially when paired with the ability to spread the order for free on a 4+. In addition, the stratagems and relics that also allow for rerolling failed wounds or add +1 to hit rolls.
2) Regimental traits work on everything to include tanks and infantry. In contrast, these buffs only work on infantry/dreads in other armies
3) Basilisks able to reroll hits and now being -3 AP makes it insane to say the least for 108pts and even better with other buffs
4) Hellhound now gaining 2D6 shots with their 16” inferno cannon for only 101pts makes way to good at multiple roles.
5) Baneblades and in particular Shadowswords, getting a price reduction, more shots (3D3), the ability to move an shoot with no penalty, and benefits from regimental abilities, strategems and new psychic powers.
6) The AM previously capable of having the most command points now can generate more on both players turn giving them seemingly an an infinite amount.
7) Leman Russ tanks getting double shots if they only move half distance, a price reduction, and new plasma vents, orders, and chapter trait buffs makes Executioners just stupid. 2D6 shots of plasma overcharged from the turret makes it just to good. The punisher upgrades on Pask is leaves nothing alive.
8) The ability to now make a unit (i.e. a baneblade), +2 save and -1 to hit was badly designed. How was were some of these not infantry only?

So what is your local group doing to keep balance and make the game fun for everybody? I am in awe that GW gave so many buffs to the metas already widely accepted strongest 8th edition faction. The AM literally have zero weaknesses or counter builds due to their cost and unit choice variety. Either they did no playtesting with this codex or used some of the upcoming books which also may have ludicrous power. Meaning if you were a pre-AM codex you are likely going to struggle.


This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/10/03 10:35:16


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I know you said you played some playtesting games, but at least give it some time. It hasn't released yet. Instead of worrying about what it may be like, think about how to counter the army. Play it out on the table.

It may be unbalanced, but at least wait for it to be released and play against it a reasonable amount.
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

I think whoever it was they got in from the competitive scene for the AM army, he is entirely incapable of balancing anything. I mean I obviously don't know the dynamic, but if his playtesting of the index made him greenlight buffs across the board for AM, then he's clearly not very good at being objective.

 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Can the book actually come out before we have these threads popping up all over the damn forum?


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





CassianSol wrote:

I know you said you played some playtesting games, but at least give it some time. It hasn't released yet. Instead of worrying about what it may be like, think about how to counter the army. Play it out on the table.

It may be unbalanced, but at least wait for it to be released and play against it a reasonable amount.


The real problem is how bitter this codex has made several players in our towards 40k. Everyone hoped this codex would balance out AM with everyone else. Instead the opposite has happened and GW doubled down on broke. I hope somethign is done soon. We were really starting to grow as a group now that may stop. I play AM and I don’t want to be that guy. Who wants to play an army that neither player enjoys playing with or against. I don’t want to be constantly apologizing to my opponent.
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

I know what you mean. 8th and the attitude that GW was advertising going into it has done miracles for the 40k scene... but now that they're showing their hand, it looks like more of the same old same old, and it's hurting that forward momentum like crazy.

 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

How much terrain are you testing with? One of the most common problems is that people try to fight a gunline with what is effectively zero terrain, as it doesn't really block LOS at all and so doesn't limit the gunline much. I would try to increase levels of terrain until the fight is fair. A Cadian gunline is a lot easier to handle if you have cityfight levels of tall buildings. Of course, that may not be practical to achieve but I would definitely experiment in that direction.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Some of the buffs really blow my mind. Was anyone really asking for the hellhound to get a buffs? I mean it pays only 20pts for a flamer that does 2D6 auto hits, STR 6, -1 AP, AND HAS A 16” RANGE!! The turret should cost more like 40pts when compared to other flamers w/ an 8” range.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

Stratagems are such a powerful addition, anyone without a basic suite of stratagems besides the main rule book ones are honestly playing with a severe disadvantage.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Trickstick wrote:
How much terrain are you testing with? One of the most common problems is that people try to fight a gunline with what is effectively zero terrain, as it doesn't really block LOS at all and so doesn't limit the gunline much. I would try to increase levels of terrain until the fight is fair. A Cadian gunline is a lot easier to handle if you have cityfight levels of tall buildings. Of course, that may not be practical to achieve but I would definitely experiment in that direction.


Most games had a good amount of terrain and it was LOS terrain. The list we developed of what must be changed is pretty comprehensive. Nothing just survives the hellhounds, Basilisks, and Executioners (now crazy good at both AT and heavy infantry). The saddest part is most of the AM players were not even taking “power lists.” If you haven’t faced the new AM stuff then good luck. Try not to get bitter during and after the game. Our next tournament is 5 weeks. If something isn’t done by GW we will likely be forced to make balance changes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vertrucio wrote:
Stratagems are such a powerful addition, anyone without a basic suite of stratagems besides the main rule book ones are honestly playing with a severe disadvantage.


Especially when most armies have about 7ish command points and the AM have in reality around 20 with a brigade, Creed, and their relics/traits.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/03 09:38:56


 
   
Made in gb
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Eastern Fringe

WAaaaaaaaaaagh. WAaaaaggghh. I wonder what the next codex will be. It's obviously only ever "OMG the game is broken forever" and "Steaming hot garbage" would be nice for the codex to be.... you know. Actually out first.

The first rule of unarmed combat is: don’t be unarmed. 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Hollow wrote:
WAaaaaaaaaaagh. WAaaaaggghh. I wonder what the next codex will be. It's obviously only ever "OMG the game is broken forever" and "Steaming hot garbage" would be nice for the codex to be.... you know. Actually out first.


Nothing really changes that much waiting, Maybe GW will listen if the book isnt even out and people are worried. Also, seems you are over reacting a bit.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






In a Trayzn pokeball

 Vertrucio wrote:
Stratagems are such a powerful addition, anyone without a basic suite of stratagems besides the main rule book ones are honestly playing with a severe disadvantage.

In the 6 or so games I've played with my space marines I've only used one stratagem, strike from the shadows. The rest all seem a bit crap to me when compared with the critical rerolls the CPs give you.


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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Apple fox wrote:
 Hollow wrote:
WAaaaaaaaaaagh. WAaaaaggghh. I wonder what the next codex will be. It's obviously only ever "OMG the game is broken forever" and "Steaming hot garbage" would be nice for the codex to be.... you know. Actually out first.


Nothing really changes that much waiting, Maybe GW will listen if the book isnt even out and people are worried. Also, seems you are over reacting a bit.


The only parts of the codex not fully leaked are the fluff, photos, and painting guide. It is a silly assumption to believe that those sections are really going to impact the game balance we tested. Sure players can read the back story, but it will not change the results I just posted.
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

broxus wrote:
The saddest part is most of the AM players were not even taking “power lists.” If you haven’t faced the new AM stuff then good luck.


As an IG player, I'm on the other side of the coin. Of course I want my army to be good and kick some teeth in, but it is no fun if the opponent never had a chance. I'm going to run a Tallarn Armoured Brigade, which at least is not such a face beater as if I ran Cadian or Catachan. Those Catachans look evil, especially if you stick d6 shot weapons everywhere.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
 Vertrucio wrote:
Stratagems are such a powerful addition, anyone without a basic suite of stratagems besides the main rule book ones are honestly playing with a severe disadvantage.

In the 6 or so games I've played with my space marines I've only used one stratagem, strike from the shadows. The rest all seem a bit crap to me when compared with the critical rerolls the CPs give you.



Honestly this is because most of the SM traits are meh at best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Trickstick wrote:
broxus wrote:
The saddest part is most of the AM players were not even taking “power lists.” If you haven’t faced the new AM stuff then good luck.


As an IG player, I'm on the other side of the coin. Of course I want my army to be good and kick some teeth in, but it is no fun if the opponent never had a chance. I'm going to run a Tallarn Armoured Brigade, which at least is not such a face beater as if I ran Cadian or Catachan. Those Catachans look evil, especially if you stick d6 shot weapons everywhere.


Honestly, the solution we may have to do is just ban the Catachan/Cadian lists, ban Baneblades, and limit basilisks/hellhounds. That may be enough but I don’t think it still fixes the Executioner/Punisher problem.

Yea i want to kick players teeth in. However, I don’t want to win just because of my codex and have everyone diminish my wins by saying it wasn’t you it was your codex. I think there is a fine balance between the two. Please post your results with Talleran lists. I am curious to see if that helps balance things out.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/10/03 09:55:53


 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

broxus wrote:
Honestly, the solution we may have to do is just ban the Catachan/Cadian lists, ban Baneblades, and limit basilisks/hellhounds. That may be enough but I don’t think it still fixes the Executioner/Punisher problem.


I would be very careful about outright banning things, it really is the nuclear option. For instance, I love my Shadowsword/Stormsword as it makes a great centrepiece to an armoured company list. If I just wasn't allowed to bring it I would probably not bother. Not that I always bring it, but it is nice to be able to. That is why I would, first and foremost, experiment within the current rules before changing points/rules or removing units. There are so many ways you can change the game through terrain and missions that it is a really powerful tool. If Guard are winning all of the time, there should be ways to structure the missions to balance that out. For instance, the Cadian gunline is not going to be very effective if your missions revolve around entering a city and capturing key points. Narrowing the sight lines of the army will make it so that you don't have to expose yourself to the entire enemy army at once, letting you nibble it to death. If they go artillery heavy to get around this, then they open themselves up to a direct attack. Hell, you could do crazy things like fill the deployment zones with lots of impassible terrain to break up gunlines, but give people extra reserves to compensate.

Just a few ideas but the mission rules are such a powerful tool for the TO that they really should be exploited to their fullest. Also, whilst you can hurt certain armies more than others, they are intrinsically "fair" because everyone has to play by them.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




It seems very strange that Imperial Guard would get their codex around this time. The codexes are designed to give large buffs to that army, with things like chapter tactics, warlord traits, expanded psychic lores, points reductions and loads of stratagems. It would make sense to start with the armies with the least power to bring them up to speed. So it seems strange that they would elect to choose what was already the strongest index army to get more powerful.
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

Darsath wrote:
It seems very strange that Imperial Guard would get their codex around this time. The codexes are designed to give large buffs to that army, with things like chapter tactics, warlord traits, expanded psychic lores, points reductions and loads of stratagems. It would make sense to start with the armies with the least power to bring them up to speed. So it seems strange that they would elect to choose what was already the strongest index army to get more powerful.


It makes sense if Guard are one of the best selling armies. I assume they are, as Forgeworld was pretty much created as an IG model company until Badab/Heresy stuff became popular. Also, Guard players are some of the bigger spenders. You don't get marine players getting 10 Predators and 200 infantry quite as much. It was also a range which they could revitalise and generate a lot of interest in through the reintroduction of doctrines, something that will bring some of the old 3.5ed people back. There has always been a feeling of loss over the doctrine system.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
Made in ch
Legendary Dogfighter





RNAS Rockall

As a long term guard player with what is essentially going to be the Catachan face stomp army since somewhere near the middle of 5th:

1. I'm going to have to pack SM and AdMech faaaar more often simply because it's going to be more fun for folks and make for longer games.
2. The baneblade variants are going to see *more* play but only as individual, unaugmented models ; they're big and scary but this way they're at least interesting to play against.
3. i'll probably stick to the index anyway given the animosity.

This is Our Time as IG; we should demonstrate we are in fact the better grade of player compared to our forebears in GK and Eldar eras by being upright and gracious about it.

Not least because it's going to go to someone else eventually.

Some people find the idea that other people can be happy offensive, and will prefer causing harm to self improvement.  
   
Made in eg
[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

Thought this was a thread about the Adeptus Mechanicus...

Besides the stupid dog latin name why did GW give the IG the same initials?

Anyway the answer is 9th edition.

 
   
Made in dk
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Metalica

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Thought this was a thread about the Adeptus Mechanicus...

Besides the stupid dog latin name why did GW give the IG the same initials?

Anyway the answer is 9th edition.


The "done thing" is "AM" is the Guard, and Adeptus Mechanicus is "AdMech"
Just leaving them as "Imperial Guard" feels like it would have made the most sense...

 
   
Made in eg
[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

 Purifier wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Thought this was a thread about the Adeptus Mechanicus...

Besides the stupid dog latin name why did GW give the IG the same initials?

Anyway the answer is 9th edition.


The "done thing" is "AM" is the Guard, and Adeptus Mechanicus is "AdMech"
Just leaving them as "Imperial Guard" feels like it would have made the most sense...


Imperialis Guardianos!

 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

 Hollow wrote:
WAaaaaaaaaaagh. WAaaaaggghh. I wonder what the next codex will be. It's obviously only ever "OMG the game is broken forever" and "Steaming hot garbage" would be nice for the codex to be.... you know. Actually out first.


People said this when Eldar and Tau came out for 7th Ed and we know how that worked out, same as with the freebie formations - again people say "try it" -six months later everyone hates it.

The one possible positive is that GW is actually listening to some feedback and also making adjustments via FAQs - is it he right stuff, is it all covered - nope but its not the stinking mire that was 7th.

Having the Codex release system rather than universal updates does make this worse. Armies are neglected or don't receive proper attention and others do which makes them seem even better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/03 10:47:33


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 Trickstick wrote:
Darsath wrote:
It seems very strange that Imperial Guard would get their codex around this time. The codexes are designed to give large buffs to that army, with things like chapter tactics, warlord traits, expanded psychic lores, points reductions and loads of stratagems. It would make sense to start with the armies with the least power to bring them up to speed. So it seems strange that they would elect to choose what was already the strongest index army to get more powerful.


It makes sense if Guard are one of the best selling armies. I assume they are, as Forgeworld was pretty much created as an IG model company until Badab/Heresy stuff became popular. Also, Guard players are some of the bigger spenders. You don't get marine players getting 10 Predators and 200 infantry quite as much. It was also a range which they could revitalise and generate a lot of interest in through the reintroduction of doctrines, something that will bring some of the old 3.5ed people back. There has always been a feeling of loss over the doctrine system.

It will certainly make Imperial Guard look like a strong army for inclusion in Imperium allied armies. Unfortunately, it also demonstrates a trend towards power creep if it is intended to sell whatever is the newest book. I hope not.
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






I think we're all forgetting the biggest victim here... the orks... imagine having a 370pts unit that basically has the same chance to wound itself with two of its weapons than damage the enemy? Now imagine a the other player basically has 3 units for the same points, each far more useful and effective tha that one unit. Now imagine 1 100pts unit can take down almost 200pts or orks a turn! Finally, imagine the only thing you are kinda okay at ( cc ) is now a dangerous tactic as you'll probably lose half your army in overwatch alone as your opponent has no negatives in their specialist skill, shooting.

Basically, our fun (already poor tactics) of mek army is our the window and our only competitive list of hordes is now useless.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/03 11:00:42


 
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Right behind you.

broxus wrote:
With the release of the new AM codex there has been some playtesting with the new rules. I am an avid AM player and have done exceedingly well with the AM index book never even using conscripts. AM was already the dominating army our local meta for both games and tournaments. In every tournament or event in 8th an AM list has won it.

WIth the previews, reviews, and leaks that have come out my gaming group is very concerned after play games to test out some lists. The new AM codex with unit buffs, points reductions, strategems and new relics just outclasses everything. Even armies with their recent codexes have not survived past turn 3 or 4. Index armies have zero chance of winning. The amount of firepower the Cadians can do by rerolling all hits and the damage the Catachans are capable of doing by rerolling the number of shots is insane. Honestly, it was so bad one player said he would never play AM in its current form again. It was obvious that neither player had fun because the AM player felt bad and his opponent had zero fun.

So now we are now forced to make some hard decisions for our upcoming events. Do we completely ban all new Codex AM from our events and only use the index, or ban several units, or make other changes. We don’t want to ruin both gamers experiences and want everyone to feel they have a chance to win. Our games have shown some AM units/buffs are just to good for what they cost.

This is just our initial list:

1) The Cadian trait to reroll all failed to hits makes units insanely to good especially when paired with the ability to spread the order for free on a 4+. In addition, the stratagems and relics that also allow for rerolling failed wounds or add +1 to hit rolls.

The Cadian trait is to reroll 1s to Hit when the unit stands still. If the unit receives the "Take Aim!" Order(An Infantry unit only Order that grants Rerolls on to Hit rolls of 1), they instead get to reroll all failed to Hits. Additionally the Cadian Warlord Trait that allows you to spread the same Order for free requires you to be in Order distance, yadda yadda yadda.

If you're going to complain or playtest things, make sure you're playtesting them right.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/03 11:15:17


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

Darsath wrote:
 Trickstick wrote:
Darsath wrote:
It seems very strange that Imperial Guard would get their codex around this time. The codexes are designed to give large buffs to that army, with things like chapter tactics, warlord traits, expanded psychic lores, points reductions and loads of stratagems. It would make sense to start with the armies with the least power to bring them up to speed. So it seems strange that they would elect to choose what was already the strongest index army to get more powerful.


It makes sense if Guard are one of the best selling armies. I assume they are, as Forgeworld was pretty much created as an IG model company until Badab/Heresy stuff became popular. Also, Guard players are some of the bigger spenders. You don't get marine players getting 10 Predators and 200 infantry quite as much. It was also a range which they could revitalise and generate a lot of interest in through the reintroduction of doctrines, something that will bring some of the old 3.5ed people back. There has always been a feeling of loss over the doctrine system.

It will certainly make Imperial Guard look like a strong army for inclusion in Imperium allied armies. Unfortunately, it also demonstrates a trend towards power creep if it is intended to sell whatever is the newest book. I hope not.


On this note I think the Eldar book (that's next, right?) will be the real indicator here; if it's like IG tier then it's obvious there is blatant power creep (also proof that GW, even with outside playtesters, can't balance the game worth gak. "Most Balanced Edition" and all that crap).

I don't think GW will do anything to "fix" it, because like always GW doesn't understand the problem. They'll leave it up to the ITC or whomever to fix the issues while your WAAC gamers flock to the best stuff like they always do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/03 11:25:46


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well, we've seen GW's first major stumble. This edition, rules wise. Some might argue that was admech, but honestly they did at least fix a number of major issues with the army (enginseer HQs and cheaper troops opened it up so very much). So, even with admech being underwhelming, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt that they were making progress.

But this codex just doesn't illustrate that. It's not in line with the previous codices overall and numerous needed changes are not present. It's by far the first big misstep this edition, rules wise.

Now, if they address it in the FAQ/errata things will be good and GW will likely be praised for being responsive. If they make us wait till chapter approved, that's going to get a far more mixed response. If this codex sets the standard for others moving forward or is a one time thing GW fails address even in chapter approved, there will be a lot of animosity moving forward and some of those players which 8th drew back in might start gravitating away from 40k.

It'll be interesting to see how they respond to their first big screw up though. Is "new" GW capable of admitting its mistakes or will they compound them?
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





broxus wrote:With the release of the new AM codex there has been some playtesting with the new rules. I am an avid AM player and have done exceedingly well with the AM index book never even using conscripts. AM was already the dominating army our local meta for both games and tournaments. In every tournament or event in 8th an AM list has won it.

WIth the previews, reviews, and leaks that have come out my gaming group is very concerned after play games to test out some lists. The new AM codex with unit buffs, points reductions, strategems and new relics just outclasses everything. Even armies with their recent codexes have not survived past turn 3 or 4. Index armies have zero chance of winning. The amount of firepower the Cadians can do by rerolling all hits and the damage the Catachans are capable of doing by rerolling the number of shots is insane. Honestly, it was so bad one player said he would never play AM in its current form again. It was obvious that neither player had fun because the AM player felt bad and his opponent had zero fun.

So now we are now forced to make some hard decisions for our upcoming events. Do we completely ban all new Codex AM from our events and only use the index, or ban several units, or make other changes. We don’t want to ruin both gamers experiences and want everyone to feel they have a chance to win. Our games have shown some AM units/buffs are just to good for what they cost.

This is just our initial list:

1) The Cadian trait to reroll all failed to hits makes units insanely to good especially when paired with the ability to spread the order for free on a 4+. In addition, the stratagems and relics that also allow for rerolling failed wounds or add +1 to hit rolls.
2) Regimental traits work on everything to include tanks and infantry. In contrast, these buffs only work on infantry/dreads in other armies
3) Basilisks able to reroll hits and now being -3 AP makes it insane to say the least for 108pts and even better with other buffs
4) Hellhound now gaining 2D6 shots with their 16” inferno cannon for only 101pts makes way to good at multiple roles.
5) Baneblades and in particular Shadowswords, getting a price reduction, more shots (3D3), the ability to move an shoot with no penalty, and benefits from regimental abilities, strategems and new psychic powers.
6) The AM previously capable of having the most command points now can generate more on both players turn giving them seemingly an an infinite amount.
7) Leman Russ tanks getting double shots if they only move half distance, a price reduction, and new plasma vents, orders, and chapter trait buffs makes Executioners just stupid. 2D6 shots of plasma overcharged from the turret makes it just to good. The punisher upgrades on Pask is leaves nothing alive.
8) The ability to now make a unit (i.e. a baneblade), +2 save and -1 to hit was badly designed. How was were some of these not infantry only?

So what is your local group doing to keep balance and make the game fun for everybody? I am in awe that GW gave so many buffs to the metas already widely accepted strongest 8th edition faction. The AM literally have zero weaknesses or counter builds due to their cost and unit choice variety. Either they did no playtesting with this codex or used some of the upcoming books which also may have ludicrous power. Meaning if you were a pre-AM codex you are likely going to struggle.



1: And is still not better than FRF-SRF
2: So? IG doesn't have dreadnoughts, and their tanks are an integral part of their army's theme.
3: Except that Basilisks are still worse than manticores
4: Like clearing infantry and... clearing infantry. They're not even that good at it anyway.
5: Baneblades yes, will probably be too good.
6: Not like it matters, unless you're doing away with the rule that prevents you from using a strategem more than once per phase.
7: And Leman Russes still are mathematically inferior to the Manticore, and cost more.

There were a ton of buffs, but they were almost all to units that were very bad. With the exception of the super heavies, none of the other good units were buffed, and as evidenced by the fact that none of the post-buff units are better than the Manticore is now, I have no idea why the sky is falling.

Purifier wrote:I think whoever it was they got in from the competitive scene for the AM army, he is entirely incapable of balancing anything. I mean I obviously don't know the dynamic, but if his playtesting of the index made him greenlight buffs across the board for AM, then he's clearly not very good at being objective.


Because all the buffs are to things that are astoundingly bad, like Leman Russes.

Post buffs, all the tanks and artillery are still inferior to the current Manticore or Wyvern.


I don't have a book in hand yet, but with the exception of the Baneblades, from what I've heard, I think the writers probably did a very good job addressing problems where there were problems.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/03 12:52:15


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