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RustyKnight wrote:Wait, you randomly jump in and lynch Mekboy and accuse me?

I accused both you and fifty. I am simply trying to say that either Fifty is exploiting Gornall's suspicions of you and his vote for you yesterday to make you seem guilty(yet Fifty really killed him), or you did indeed kill Gornall.

How about you killed Gornall to try and make me look bad?

That could be a possibility that entered your mind my good man, however I for one know I am a loyal servant of the emperor.

Why is it that after days of being too busy to reply to this thread you jump in and lynch someone and are then able to start discussing?

As it is the weekend.

Damn, feel a bit bad about offing Mekboy now...

As for who to vote for this time...

eeny-meeny-miney-mo...

*looks back and forth between Rusty and Deff Dredd with a lot of fear and confusion*

Voting at this stage is indeed going to be difficult.
I have no real evidence to support anything.

I am unsure of both of you.
Fifty has been rather vocal and posted quite a lot. His votes have followed the group in most cases(or at least I think they have). Perhaps he blends into the back round a little too nicely. Then again he could just be a well meaning Imperial citizen.

Rusty on the other hand I still can't seem to get a feel for.

Deff Dredd is very quiet, I have found, and I just wonder if that was his tactic from the get-go. The crazy genestealer, LotG, the (initially) sensible 'stealer, Dark O, and the quiet 'stealer... DDrE

Rusty Knight is not very controversial. I find that Gornall's suspicions are almost enough to make me want to vote for him...

Evidence Pointing Towards DDrE as the Last Genestealer
-Suddenly lynched Mekboy after days of silence
-----This just struck me as sudden. It definitely cut short any discussion that could have resulted from being able to converse with DDrE.
-Long absences
-----While these aren't directly scummy, they have allowed DDrE to slide into the last three without ever being put under any real pressure. Fifty and I have both been suspected as 'stealers.
-Very neutral
-----As far as I can remember, DDrE mostly popped in to affirm that he too thought that whoever was suspect #1 was suspicious. Stealth band-wagon?

Evidence Pointing Towards Rusty as the Last Genestealer
-Suspected by Gornall
-----The wording of his last accusation against me is rather interesting. He mentions how he finds my "attitude" off-putting. The word choice there makes it seem more like he doesn't like me and not that I'm giving him any scummy vibes. I could just be attributing too much to word choice, but Gornall seemed relatively well spoken.
-Several Lynchees at One Time or Another Suspected Me
-----If we look at all those who were lynched (EF, n0t_u, Lord-Loss, BrotherStynier, Arheiner, Gornall), n0t_u, BroStyn, and Gornall all mentioned interest in me prior to their death. Of course, in n0t_u's case, I don't think anyone noticed his accusation of me until Gornall quoted it as I could find no record of me ever replying to it. Regardless, that does leave a bit of a pattern. Of course, the pattern is too obvious. Like someone deliberately left it... In the case of BroStyn, Fifty was also one of BroStyn's suspects so lynching him would help Fifty incriminate me and take the pressure off himself. On the other hand, I do believe that DDrE's jumping into it at the start of this day was a rather sudden shift in his demeanor. I think it is rather interesting that he didn't offer up this chain of evidence until after he lynched Mekboy. Waiting to kill Gornall to add more to his attempt to turn Fifty against me?

Course, Drk_o had more experience than any of us, so I'd bet money that he planned all of the lynchings prior to his death. He knew when he was to be lynched as well, so he could have left instructions for his ally. That throws a pretty nasty wrench into all of my deliberations.

Evidence Pointing Towards Fifty as the Last Genestealer
To be continued

I'm having a spot o' trouble with this one. Unfortunately, after BroStyn accused me and him of being on a team, I've felt a particular spot of camaraderie with Fifty that seems to have rendered me incapable of making a neat little list of issues. Rest assured, I will generate one!

-Suddenly lynched Mekboy after days of silence

This was indeed a very bad idea on my part. Mekboy was rather quite that day, conversation seemed to be going nowhere and I had been suspicious of him on days gone by. He at the time seemed the most suspicious and so I voted for him not knowing what else to do.

-----This just struck me as sudden. It definitely cut short any discussion that could have resulted from being able to converse with DDrE.

As said above it was indeed a mistake, I just thought conversation was stagnating and not much was going on.

-Long absences

This I must attribute to my school books arriving late and me having to play catch up to get my terms work done.

-----While these aren't directly scummy, they have allowed DDrE to slide into the last three without ever being put under any real pressure. Fifty and I have both been suspected as 'stealers.

I think it was that on all the previous days we had more obvious suspects or at least more people acting more suspect then I, to deal with.

-Very neutral

Perhaps, I was a bit. However I was in the lynch vote that killed both other stealers. It wouldn't be a very good tactic for genestealers to go around lynching each other, now would it?

-----As far as I can remember, DDrE mostly popped in to affirm that he too thought that whoever was suspect #1 was suspicious. Stealth band-wagon?

Well, I will agree slightly with this, but only for my first day. That day, I firstly voted for Drk_O whom was acting overly suspicious, however as the votes swung toward the Ferret I felt a need to do so to. On the second day, I was suspicious of LoTG from the beginning of that day because of his strange claims and his strange votes.

The next day I was suspicious of Vulkan for his votes which were also centered around 'scummy vibes.' He was modkilled later that day because of his quoting of a PM. On the next day, I could do nothing more then affirm that I found suspect number one suspicious as Vulkan's PM had stated that Drk_O was indeed a stealer. The last two lynches have indeed been mistakes. DD I thought was a stealer Magus, the strange way both stealers unvoted him, only for one to kill his stealer buddy, was strange. He seemed the most likely so I went for him.

Yesterday was also a big mistake on my part. Mekboy had seemed suspicious before, like he was almost to willing to help or trying to hard to seem Imperial. However, I know now that it was meant well and came from a standpoint of an Imperial citizen trying to help his fellow citizens survive.

Whichever way I vote, if I get it wrong, the 'stealer will bandwagon immediately and win...

But if I wait too long, the other cit might vote wrong and go for me, again, allowing the 'stealer to win by immediately lynching me...

Not going to wait...

Just re-read the previous post...

Perhaps, I was a bit. However I was in the lynch vote that killed both other stealers. It wouldn't be a very good tactic for genestealers to go around lynching each other, now would it?

Not much to go on, but I'd rather make my own mistake than have someone else make one and kill me. "Other" stealers? Now, that could refer to "the other two 'stealers as opposed to the one we are trying to find now", but it sounds more like something the final 'stealer would say. "The other two stealers apart from me."

Looks like maybe just careless wording, but it is the strongest evidence I am going to get.

I've also looked back at the first few days. Both Rusty and DDrE voted for Drk_O early. Rusty so early it was definitely either random or 'stealer tricks. As a 'stealer trick it would be less effective because it was too soon. DDrE was a fraction later, enough to make it look more like a 'stealer trick as he was already joining a bandwagon by then. Rusty then switched from Drk_O to LotG.

One thing I do not understand is why Dark_O did not respond to either DDrE or Rusty voting for him. Also, LotG switched from Mekboy to Rusty very easily. I am not sure we can read much into his crazy actions though... DDrE then seemed to support Drk_O in his accusations against the_ferret. No clue why Rusty removed LotG. 'cos he did not think 'stealers would be so daft? He did leave Drk_O on his list though... I wonder if the message at the top of P6 about "our cause" was code to someone he knew to be fellow 'stealer...

But then I look closer and see that DDrE left his vote on Dark_O even when he was at L-1. Mind you, that looks more like being because he did not post for a long time. Rusty moved off when it started to look close to lynch time and voted for ferret instead...

Deff Dredd was also quite protective of LotG at one stage. Deff did not vote for ferret, supposedly to avoid a possible lynch by 'stealers... But then, of course, it was clear by then he woul dget lynched at the end of the day anyway, and Deff knew anyway that there would be only one more 'stealer vote so a lynch would be impossible anyway.

DDrE's frequent filler posts worry me, as does him being anti-LotG for a long time without actualy voting for him and seeming to paradoxically try to not get him lynched as well.

But then Rusty defends Drk_O...

But the voting patterns after that make no sense...

Okay, I have to go to training soon, and I want to vote before I leave, so time to re-read the entirety of the last 15-20 pages...

Rusty, it may look like I am trying to end this quickly, before you have time to write a list of suspicions about me, but if you want to vote for him too, let's get this done. Otherwise, vote for me, he'll bandwagon and kill you dead in a second.

Damn, I hope to hell I am right on this...

Vote: Deff Dread red Edition

Well this is a rather lose, lose situation for me. If I vote Fifty it will be construed as me simply voting against my accuser and will therefore make me look guilty. If I vote for Rusty, I feel he'll just go for the lynch vote on me. So both ways I'm rather doomed.

So, I think I'm going to go for a last ditch appeal, Fifty, I think Rusty is the stealer. If you help me lynch him, both you and I could get out of here alive(I know is this most likely going to get me lynched but what the heck, I don't have much to lose anymore).

Voteeff Dread red Edition

Dude, we won!

Holds up claw for high five!

(I could be a jerk and not count Rusty's vote because it's parsed incorrectly, but...)

The rain splattered down upon the three of them as they stood there eying each other. The thick mud pooled around their boots like turgid soup with each movement. Rusty motioned to the other two.

"I think you both could be the Genestealer but I know it's only one of you. Here are my suspicions..."

DDRE listened and shook his head, "I disagree, I think my votes are all fairly clear."

"I dunno, you've both been quiet...too quiet." Fifty gripped his laspistol tightly - he knew by his training on L-Jenkins Prime he was the fastest draw.

"Look, I helped kill both other stealers...," began DDRE

"Other? Hah, obvious stealer is obvious!" Fifty drew and fired. DDRE barely had time to blink in surprise as he fell to the ground in a splatter of mud and blood.

As if by some sign the rain finally seemed to stop, and Fifty grinned as he looked skyward - sensing the Emperor's benevolence upon him.

That was when the claw burst through his chest.

"All too easy," chuckled Rusty as he shook the body off his clawed arm. "All too easy."

He turned and slowly walked into the jungle - they would have to find some more fools to re-excavate the temple, but all was going according to plan.
====================================

The Game is over.

It is a Genestealer victory

Damn! and I was so sure I was right about Gornall! Sorry about that

How well does everyone think I did for my first game? What did I do wrong?

Gratz to you Rusty, you managed to avoid suspiscion pretty well there.

Thanks for the ace game everybody(especially Thor for putting in the mod work).

Well played you evil genestealer scum.

That one was pretty close. Good game everyone.

Next time, 'stealers!

Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Damnit damnit damnit.

Right up to that last little "other 'stealer" comment by DDrE I was 50/50, and leaning towards Rusty very slightly because of Gornall's suspicions.

When I looked back through DDrE's posts in the first 20 or so pages, he just seemed to be trying too hard to be reasonable, too hard to defend LotG and generally just a bit suspect in light of what we learned later.

Sadly, he really was just trying to be reasonable.

Well played Rusty. Towards the end Gornall nearly swayed me on to you, and and different times during the last couple of days I'd have picked you over DDrE, but when it came to the crunch you played it well.

Dastardly Dave wrote:Damn! and I was so sure I was right about Gornall! Sorry about that

How well does everyone think I did for my first game? What did I do wrong?

Gratz to you Rusty, you managed to avoid suspiscion pretty well there.

I think you were dealt a losing hand from when you took over. Apart from that, you really did nothing to make yourself seem suspicious. You ust couldn't shake off the damage gnd had done.

As for identifying people, not sure wha you did or didn't do. I think you were in such a corner that it was impossible for you to contribute much in that regard.

It was my first game as well.

I guess I must have done a decent job of seeming like an upstanding Imperial Cit, as I was last to die, but I found it hard to interpret people's motivations and pick the 'stealers. I think I voted for LotG, I am not sure now, but only because I figured he was not much use as a cit, and therefore the least loss if he died. I didn't pick Dark_O until he was set up anyway, and obviously, Rusty wriggled out of my suspicions...

Very fun game.

Thanks Thor.

I'm in next time, if someone is volunteering?

I would, but I am way too busy. I'll run one in the summer when my life is quieter.

Also, one question rusty, why did you kill off Gornall? As far as I could see, he would have been next on the lynching list, so it would've been easier to shift suscpiscion onto him. (not that it matters now )

EDIT: oh, and count me in for the next one, whoever is doing it.

I must agree with Fifty's statements Dave. You replaced someone who acted very suspiciously and you couldn't really get away from it because you couldn't explain his actions. So you were indeed dealt a 'losing hand.'

I'm in next time, if someone is volunteering?

I do believe Gornall said something about being slated to do the next one.

Dastardly Dave wrote:How well does everyone think I did for my first game? What did I do wrong?

To be frank I feel you played a very solid game. Your big problem was really your predecessor. GND had absorbed up a fair amount of scumtells and when you came in it was very easy to paint you with the same brush (honestly, as I recall it was even Rusty who was doing some of that painting). I thought your communication level was good, your attempt to keep your thoughts open was excellent, and your logic showed some sound basing that as you learn more of the strategy of the game will probably serve you well. I really think if you'd been in from the get go you would have been more akin to Gornall or Emperors Faithful - a good town asset that would have been killed by the Stealers.

Stealers really did do some solid night kill targeting this game.

Fifty wrote:When I looked back through DDrE's posts in the first 20 or so pages, he just seemed to be trying too hard to be reasonable, too hard to defend LotG and generally just a bit suspect in light of what we learned later.

Sadly, he really was just trying to be reasonable.

Rusty made a good target of the final two. He was probably well aware it was slightly risky to kill Gornall Night 6, but with Gornall so suspicious of him and always so big on thinking things through he would have been a risky option. Meanwhile DDRE was a perfect foil for Rusty to use since he'd been quiet enough it was going to be easier to slop some suspicion onto him. I did not envy you the choice (on the flip side I didn't really envy DDRE's choice either - but really that just shows Rusty made a very good play)

I think overall scum team started a touch weak but they really honed their game fast and I think Rusty is darn near a natural for playing a Stealer - I hope if I'm ever in a game with him we're on the same side. lotg and Drk_O I initially thought were going to be rough partners, but oddly enough between the two of them playing around and joking they were actually able to be quite scummy without getting much suspicion (and but for the Inquisitor I think Drk_O would have lasted *much* longer) I'm ashamed to admit I probably would have been dismissing those two myself - and it's a good lesson to realize that sometimes people are acting obviously scummy not because they don't know better but really simply because they are obviously scummy.

Town had some basic ups and downs. You did good in trying to keep conversation going but as much as I understand where Gornall was coming from I do think the grind out in mind game came from a concept that town always needs to go to deadline (which is something I basically taught him, so mea culpa). The truth is town should only go to deadline if there is good conversation and/or there hasn't been enough. Sometimes conversation is dead and it really does just need a lynch to see where the day is going. I'd say the best work of the town was that you were all really big about forcing people to justify their votes - this was very smart play and you had some good conversations about who was or wasn't guilty because of it. Probably the biggest pitfall in general was that I think you needed to go back and look at the proven stealers more once they were proven. There was a fair spate of 'follow the leader' from the stealers early game where I swear every vote Rusty made had both lotg and Drk_O follow suite. That could have been damning if anyone had picked up on it - and certainly going back and re-reading the proven scum looking for any 'buddying' with their fellow Genestealers would have been a smart move.

I'm happy to offer whatever bumbling advice/thoughts I can for anyone else who is curious to see how I read their actions or where I thought maybe they did good or bad.

Two questions from me to you guys.

1. When I modkilled the Inquisitor - do you think it was fair to the scum team that I revealed his role? Should I have not revealed his role at all?

2. For the scum team (or anyone who has ever been a scum) For my next iteration of the game I'm planning to use Quick Topic (a free use message board) to create a mini Genestealer thread for you to discuss plans in during Night Phase. Do you think having a mini thread safe from prying Imperial eyes will be better/easier then the current PM system? What are your thoughts on the current PM system for scum?

Dastardly Dave wrote:Also, one question rusty, why did you kill off Gornall? As far as I could see, he would have been next on the lynching list, so it would've been easier to shift suscpiscion onto him. (not that it matters now )

I don't think I would have voted for Gornall, to be honest. I'd have still voted for either DDrE or Rusty, I think.

Like Thor said about going back and looking at known stealers actions, I wish I had done more of that sooner. I did it when I sat down and voted this morning and I wish I had done more of it more often, but I've been very busy through this game and just have not had the time or energy...

How do you guys think I did for my first game? I was rather nervous to use my vote on most days, feeling slightly like I was kept till last because I was a bumbling townie whose own actions could be used against me.


As for your questions Thor:

1.I don't remember you revealing his role as such. Perhaps I just didn't catch though.

2.I've never played a stealer, but Dakka's PM system doesn't allow one to send multiple PM's to different users at once. So I would think it would help for the quickness of getting night actions in.

I had to kill Gornall night six. He was fairly certain that I was a 'stealer and he had gone after me before. If he hadn't brought up n0t_u's post, I had been considering leaving him and Fifty as the final two. Once DDrE lynched Mekboy, I decided that I would have a better chance of getting DDrE lynched. Especially since most of the reasoning I used in getting Mekboy lynched would work to at least some degree on DDrE.

As far as I know, neither Drk_o nor myself was ever able to communicate with LotG. I'm not sure about hosting a thread on some other forum however, I think it could end up being rather bad if a pro-town managed to locate it.

As for revealing Vulkan's role, I don't think it mattered that much. The PM didn't really look doctored, so Drk_O would have been lynched anyways.

Near the beginning of the game, I was a little too band wagon-ish. Gornall noticed, but I managed to deflect it at least partially and then it got lost in taking out LotG.

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:I do believe Gornall said something about being slated to do the next one.

I think he was dumb enough to agree to that. If it starts April 5th or later I definitely want in.

Deff Dread red Edition wrote:How do you guys think I did for my first game? I was rather nervous to use my vote on most days, feeling slightly like I was kept till last because I was a bumbling townie whose own actions could be used against me.

Your biggest "weakness" was you were just a touch too quiet. really I think that was what helped keep you around. Genestealers like quiet players because other players don't get strong reads on them and it's easier to lynch them with simple commentary like "he's being too quiet...like he has something to hide". And the worst thing is, it's true, being quiet is an excellent stealer tactic. I think if you had just managed to post about once a day regular you'd have been less easy to mislynch. Being nervous with your vote isn't unreasonable, but there's certainly times when it's better and times when it's worse. I can't actually think of a time you were holding back your vote where I thought 'he shouldn't do that, it looks scummy' so I think you were okay in that regard. As you play more games, and catch scum, you'll become more confident in putting your vote out on your own personal reads.

When you did speak I thought you did just fine. You're still learning your way around the logic and strategy of the game but you understood that you should express your thoughts clearly (and concisely - something I struggle with).

That was a good game, really had me guessing. Perhaps I'll last a bit longer on my next one.

Same, I looked at the last day situation and went DDRE HAS to be the genestealer!

I managed to talk to lotg a couple of times, but he didn't really respond in time.

My whole stategy for the game was to do everything anyone ever said a genestealer would never do.

I talked alot.
Antaganised everyone (although that was during the RVS stage)
I didn't talk alot.
I genereally went insane
I claimed to be a psyker (and only because the Inquisitor killed himself)
I even told off Gornal for dropping his suspicion of me when I voted for lotg.
I voted off and killed another Genestealer.

If I missed anything feel free to add it to the list.

Ironically, I wanted to lynch Vulkan on the night he investigated me, but could think of a good reason other than "to try and confuse everyone" and Rusty got off, and I had to go out during the next day so I left it with him.

I don't like the idea of the mini thread. If you do a quick Google Search on "Genestealer Game" the second link is this game(if you count wikipedia's entry on Genestealer and space hulk as one link) and so I'm not sure about having it on another forum.

It would be on Quick Topic who is pretty locked down as to which and how search engines can index it. I also would probably just label it something generic like "game discussion thread" So I personally believe it would be quite safe from searches. Hmmm...

...okay, I actually made a discussion topic. You know for a fact it is on quick topic. I have posted in it and used the word Genestealer.

Give it a bit of time to propagate in search engines and let's see if anyone can find and post the link. If you can I'll figure out another method. If not, then I think it's a fairly secure option.