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REVISED LIST
This is revised after getting my copy of the codex.

1850 (1832)

Autarch, fusion gun, laser lance, jetbike, mandiblasters - 140
Eldrad - 210

2 x 10 harlequins with shadowseer, troupe leader (270 each)
1 x 10 harlequins with shadowseer (250)


3 jetbikes with shuriken cannon (76)
3 jetbikes with shuriken cannon (76)

Fireprism with spirit stones, vectored engines, holofield (180)
Fireprism with spirit stones, vectored engines, holofield (180)
Fireprism with spirit stones, vectored engines, holofield (180)



Idea being that Eldrad runs with the two big harlequin squads and fortunes them both. Then does something else cool, like mindwarring stuff.

I think the only thing that really jumps out at me is your Spirit Seers are all on Bikes, and if you don't want the 'Lords to be checking for Wratihsight then the Seers will have to stick close, basically negating any speed you gain from having Jetbikes. Or is a jetbike squad or 2 going to hang around within 12" of the Wraithlords?

Perhaps you could use those leftover points for a Guardian Squad with a Spiritseer, so they can hang around the Wraithlords, freeing your bikes to go and capture table quarters and harrass and eliminate small enemy units.

They all have the spirit seer upgrade so they can go as far as 12" ahead of the wraithlords. One of them can babysit them at a time, and any time one gets knocked out you can turboboost one to within 12" of them and they're fine.

A brightlance guardian squad with a conceal spirit seer might be viable but I think it'd cost as much as another jetbike squad so I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just get another jetbike squad.

It might also be better to put conceal on all the jetbike squads but I'm not sure it's worth it given they'll be turboboosting a lot of the game and JSJing the rest of it.

I haven't played it so I'm not sure how hard it'll be to play target denial with squads of 4 jetbikes, but I think it should be at least easy to make them hard to target.

Now that I know the new rules for Harlies, I knew this kind of list would pop up. Then i cried.

I would put some bright lances on the wraithlords instead of Scat lasers for the anti armor.

I think I will ditch the death jester and get a power weapon troupe leader for LD10 instead, as they are going to be fleeting all the time anyway.

So:
1715

Autarch with jetbike, laser lance, fusion gun, mandiblasters -- 140 pts

10 harlequins, all kisses, shadowseer with veil of tears/hallucinogen grenades, troupe leader with power weapon -- 270 pts
10 harlequins, all kisses, shadowseer with veil of tears/hallucinogen grenades, troupe leader with power weapon -- 270 pts
10 harlequins, all kisses, shadowseer with veil of tears/hallucinogen grenades, troupe leader with power weapon -- 270 pts

4 Jetbikes with a shuriken cannon, warlock with singing spear, spirit seer, embolden -- 135 pts
4 Jetbikes with a shuriken cannon, warlock with singing spear, spirit seer, embolden -- 135 pts
4 Jetbikes with a shuriken cannon, warlock with singing spear, spirit seer, embolden -- 135 pts

Wraithlord with scatterlaser, shuriken cannon -- 120 pts
Wraithlord with scatterlaser, shuriken cannon -- 120 pts
Wraithlord with scatterlaser, shuriken cannon -- 120 pts

Yeah antiarmor on the wraithlords would be cool but the problem is it costs TONS of points and is only one shot.

It'd make them 140 pts each and less expendable.

I'll definitely give that some thought though.

Could drop the wraithlords and use the 360 pts and 135 spare to probably get 3 fire prisms with spirit stones and holofields.

That'd get me some antiarmor as well as AP2/3.

For the cost (nearly as much as another whole harlequin) I don't think the troop master is worth the points for an extra str3 attack, rending or not, and Ld10.

Also I don't think, and some preliminary testing suggests this is true, that harlequins can cross the board and reach assault on foot against any kind of shooty army, static or mobile. Outside of 24" you're safe, and within 13" you can definitely assault, but there is both (1) that critical zone when enemy guns might see you but you're still to far away and (2) the near-certainty that the enemy will send some mobile firepower up to within 4" and shoot up the harlequins before they can get close. Speeders, drop pod units, a seraphim squad with flamers, some stormtroopers or marines in a rhino--all kinds of things can do the job. A whirlwind with mines can target the spot your harlies are standing on without a sighting roll and force you to move out of it. If you run into an army that can kill your harlequins, this army doesn't really have a plan B to go to.

Also I don't think the parts of this army work together. Everything moves at a different speed, almost gauranteeing that they will straggle in in waves if you need to assault. As Grim mentioned, the bikes/HQ can kill tanks, for which they need to be mobile in positioning, but have to stay with the slower wraithlords. The wraithlords get lots of str6 shots, but they don't have access to the side armor shots that mobile vehicles get and don't always have the speed to close to range for shuriken cannons. The harlequins can either stand in the back and be safe, or charge forward full speed and assault--none of the other units really support them directly or enhance their capability (except maybe by killing the tanks that threaten them). Only the harlies deploy in escalation.

Most importantly, though, this army doesn't look like much fun to play. There aren't a lot of decisions to make. Basically the Harlequins haul a$$ downrange as fast as they can to try to catch something in HtH while the bikes nursemaid the wraithlords in the back.

To me, so far, it looks like the most viable way to use harlies is (1) as a countercharge unit in a standoff shooty army or (2) in a 6-model assault unit transported by a falcon. They need the protection of either the grav tank or the range until they are ready to charge in.

He's S4 on the charge with 5 power weapon attacks. That's worth it for 20 pts.

I'm not sure that 10 harlequins could make it across the board but I think 30 could.

My thinking is that the way it would play is this:

Two bike squads, harlies, and autarch haul ass down range while one bike squad babysits the wraithlords from 10" in front of them as they advance 6" per turn. The bikes rotate with casualties with 24+6" moves (unless I'm misremembering and they don't get the 6" when they boost, but I don't think there's a qualifier like that). Say the bike squad with the wraithlords dies, you turbo one of them back to babysit.

I think that instead of wraithlords, the three fireprisms might work. This list doesn't require transports, due to the harlies being too big for falcons, and prisms are a fair bit cheaper.

Things like rhinos and landspeeders are not really a threat due to the number of S6 guns and spears there are to deal with them. Drop pods and seraphim are a valid threat for sure.

Whirlwind mines I'm not so much worried about because turboboosting jetbikes will kill whirlies on turn 2 any game.

What would you think of fire prisms, Flav?

Might have to ditch the leaders for the prisms actually

I see the Guardians w/ Autarch leaving the army behind as you find you can't stop Predators, Defilers w/ Mutated Hull, Land Raiders and Russes at range. You can put down a lot of shooting, but at S6. The Singing Spears are going to have to get in close. Which then leads to the issue about the Wraithlords.

If your going the route to build (or already built) Warlocks on bikes, might as well do a Farseer to. Guide, Fortune and Doom can be very useful.

The Harlies I'd like to see played. My initial thoughts were that 30 would be very scary, but obviously have to playtest it. I also think this is where powers like Fortune will be very useful. I've done the Conceal/Fortune thing for big Guardian squads and it was very surprising how resilient they were.

Good luck.

Am I the only one who still likes the Seer Council? Apparently so.

Anyway, seems like a fun list, but it's quite hard to get it to play well. It doesn't have the usual resilience of Eldar tournament armies.

I still like the seer council. Once I get the codex so I can better strategize, I'll definitely be considering one....lead by Eldrad of course...hehe

Capt K

Prisms sound better than wraithlords, Longshot.  They are definitely better at points denial, and with 3 going on the table at least one or two of them will get to shoot.

I say try out the foot harlequins, but obviously use proxy models to start.  Personally I was surprised in playtesting at how going second and getting a bad fleet roll or two can break up and string out your assault, leaving you vulnerable to marines stepping up and rapid-firing, landspeeder tornados (dang, those things put down a lot of T3 models with one shot) and mobile flamers.

I thought the army would play like nids, but Eldar don't have the numbers for it.  By the time the hard-hitters arrived, the expensive first wave guys were all dead.  But if somebody can make it work, I'll be happy to jump on the harlequin swarm bandwagon.

Therion puts forth a good point. It might do well with a jetbike or walking seer council to back it up.

I'll post some reports when I get the codex officially and get some playtest games in. My buddy has a billion points in Eldar and so we're going to be doing a lot of playtesting

Have you though about the Eldar Missile Launcher and Brightlance combo for your Wraithlords?

It would cost you 105 more points.

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 10/31/2006 7:54 PM
For the cost (nearly as much as another whole harlequin) I don't think the troop master is worth the points for an extra str3 attack, rending or not, and Ld10.

The main reason to take the upgrade is that it it is the ONLY way to get the eldar version of frag grenades for the unit. Otherwise you find yourself with a assault squad that attacks last on most charges nowadays. By upgrading to a shadowseer, the unit gets the grenades automatically.

My only problem with this list is that everything you have is "meat".  You have nothing that is expendable. A mobile army could do some real damage to this list. Unless you have a farseer with fortune nearby, if you get shot at PERIOD, most of your army dies quickly, even to flashlights with low batteries. You need to make your opponent have to make choices, and you are giving your opponent lots of points in each unit. I agree with the 3 fire prisms, or take 2 and a wraithlord. By lowering the attacks of a wraithlord to 2, they made them kind of a waste to even attack a space marine squad; sure, they cant hurt you usually, but with the possibility of only killing two a round in hth, it seems like a wasted tarpit. Wraithlords are basically highly resilient gun platforms now.

The other bonus of wraithlords that people seem to not realize is the re-classification of their hth weapons. Wraithlords are no longer armes with power fists, but are str 10 monstrous creatures. This meansthat they roll 2d6 for penetration rather than the old 1d6. this gives wraithlords a possibilty of 22 for penetration.......not something to forget. Another possibility might be the sword so when the odd skimmer lands close, you get to reroll those 6's.

He's talking about the troupe leader (or whatever he's called), not the shadowseer. You are paying for ld10 and an extra attack and I agree with Flavius it's not worth it on an already expensive unit.

Well now I'm thinking, winterman, that the great harlequin, um I mean "troupe leader", actually is worth it.

I forgot about the furious charge. A str*4* power weapon on top of all of those rending attacks might well be worth it. It's important for harlequins to do as much damage as they can in that first charge.

So it looks like he kills 2/3 more MEq on the charge then a bog standard harlie with the kiss. Depends on how much he costs but could be worth it.
However I'd be carefull how much damage you do on the charge. What we've found locally is the harlies will usually wipe out a unit on their turn and be stuck facing alot of close ranged firepower. I saw a game where a LatD player was able to finish off a squad of harlies with flashlights because of this.

Since they can hit n run, it may be advisable to kill enough to limit return attacks but not enough to wipe squads. So say having only 6 or so harlies with a kiss regardless of how many are in the squad. Its all theory hammer though and certainly there are situations I'm not taking into account.

Drop podding marines are very bad news for the Harlequin lists. Rapid firing a ten man squad of marines into a troupe pretty much destroys it's combat capability. Libs with Boo are bad also. The new Avatar is almost a neccesity in Harlequin and shooty Eldar lists because of his new fearless ability.

Drop podding marines with bolters are pretty scary yeah but as a guy who has played two or three different drop pod lists I can tell you it's not a sovereign solution.

If you get a bad scatter and you often do it'd be easy to be out of spotting distance. If you don't get enough squads you'll be killed piecemeal.

Further it's not hard to put a line of 'pushback' units near the harlies to keep drop pods from getting close enough to rapid fire. A cheap unit of jetbikes set up right on either edge of a harlie formation with a tank in the front and another tank in the back makes it realllly hard for the pods to get a lot of good shots.

I think drop pods vs. this list would be a crapshoot at best, particularly playing against me. I'm not going to fall for any of their tricks.

The troupe leader is worth it mainly because he puts lets you bottom-load your squad with killiness. Instead of everyone in the unit being equally killy, you pack a lot of killy into a sarge-type character who gets killed last.

So with a troupe leader you always have 5 S4 power weapon attacks in the squad that hit on 3s even when the squad is down to like 4 guys.

4 harlequins charging is only going to kill around 3.75 marines.

3 harlequins and a troop leader kills 4.5 or so.

I think that whirlwind sales will be going up in the coming months. Castellan mines just seem to be the no-brainer solution for marine players... even if indirect can't target harlequins, they can still throw up a bunch of mines in the way of the horde either a) thinning them out horribly or b) slowing them down ALOT.

I predict people will play whirlwinds against a fast army like Eldar around twice before they give up in frustration.

Resurrecting this so I can update my list.

Is the very top list the current edited one?

The bigger thing about Eldrad is he can tremendously help ensure your 3 tanks to get crushed by not getting 1st turn. Setting up heavies first gives your opponent the opportunity to set up lots of guns against them. Eldrad fixes that. Repositioning the units is going to be big in my opinion.

Have you tried out any of the lists yet? I'm curious to hear about how all these min jetbike, max Fire Prism lists are doing.

Yeah sorry forgot to put edited in there - doh

I've still got 20 more harlequins to do, and they take a bloody long time to make look right. Going to be kicking myself when the harlies actually come out, I'm sure, as I'm currently going through green stuff like crazy. Haven't tested it out yet, but tomorrow night I shall get some proxy games in.