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No .

I like to think that the customers who have been wronged are of the better sort. Plus knowing Prodos they'll employ others to man their booth while they stay well the feth away their selves, which was certainly the case at Salute last year.

Is the anger towards Prodos coming from an old, failed, Kickstarter... or something? Because I have purchased quite a few boxes of their Space Crusade-line for my 40K Slaanesh armies and they have always delivered the goods without any problems. They even sent me a free extra missile launcher arm when I emailed them and asked them nicely So I am wondering why Prodos is getting so much flak here on Dakka?

The AVP Kickstarter is a great place to start.

Extremely long delays, a la Raging Heroes, or a complete failure to deliver what was promised?

Agusto wrote:
Extremely long delays, a la Raging Heroes, or a complete failure to deliver what was promised?

Depends on the backer = both can be true. Read more here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/7860/556916.page

Agusto wrote:
Extremely long delays, a la Raging Heroes, or a complete failure to deliver what was promised?

To summarise (not a backer but kept up with the posts), Produs released the product to the general public a couple of years ago but some backers have still not received anything even now. To make matters worse they have now released a second edition at retail so even if / when the backers to receive what they pledged for it will be outdated.

They have also changed some of the products such as backers pledged for a hardcover rule book, it was changed to a soft cover book of half the size and sold for half the backer price at retail. Backers will not refunded the difference.

Agusto wrote:
Is the anger towards Prodos coming from an old, failed, Kickstarter... or something? Because I have purchased quite a few boxes of their Space Crusade-line for my 40K Slaanesh armies and they have always delivered the goods without any problems. They even sent me a free extra missile launcher arm when I emailed them and asked them nicely So I am wondering why Prodos is getting so much flak here on Dakka?

Did you pre-order the Space Crusade game? How is it?

No, I didn't order the boxed game, just boxes of minatures for my "Daughters of the Emperor"-chapter

Agusto wrote:
No, I didn't order the boxed game, just boxes of minatures for my "Daughters of the Emperor"-chapter

Ask the folks who did pre-order it how they enjoy it.

That will help answer your question.

 CptJake wrote:

Agusto wrote:
Is the anger towards Prodos coming from an old, failed, Kickstarter... or something? Because I have purchased quite a few boxes of their Space Crusade-line for my 40K Slaanesh armies and they have always delivered the goods without any problems. They even sent me a free extra missile launcher arm when I emailed them and asked them nicely So I am wondering why Prodos is getting so much flak here on Dakka?

Did you pre-order the Space Crusade game? How is it?

If you did pre-order it, they will refund you, which is nice I guess, unless you actually wanted the game.

I... did not know that. Shame, I really like their minatures and it is nice to have a company that sells 40K proxies that doesn't need hours upon hours in order to wash the mold release-agents away But I still say that they are good and quick when it comes to delivering models though.

Agusto wrote:
I... did not know that. Shame, I really like their minatures and it is nice to have a company that sells 40K proxies that doesn't need hours upon hours in order to wash the mold release-agents away But I still say that they are good and quick when it comes to delivering models though.

That's really not a true statement though, unfortunately.

It is hard to believe that there are still some backers from their AvP KS - a KS that helped get them to where they are today - that haven't received their pledges (or all of their pledges) yet.

Until they complete that one, it is a stain that's going to follow them around.

Still waiting on my wargame rulebook (and the warzone rulebook they said they would give to backers), FemPred, Youngbloods, multi-part Marines, Marine bits, all objective markers and Facehuggers.

Several of those have been available at retail for a while now, but Prodos seems disinterested in fulfilling their obligations or even replying to my requests for product exchange, which they offered to backers.

Which is a shame as the product is fantastic.

Aside from all their KS fiascos, Prodos also treated my FGLS poorly even though they were one of the very first stockists in the country for Prodos.

I sold off all my Prodos Warzone (but not for much...the demand is so low I practically had to give it away).

I am one of the original AvP backers who paid >$200 but have yet to receive most of my stuff. I even went to their booth at Spiel Essen - but just got a few minis (they only had the game in German).

Last year I wrote Prodos and requested them to send the missing stuff (including the actual game) so that I could demo it at Swedens biggest game festival, Nordsken with >10.000 visitors (I am one of the five organizers).

Surprisingly they did send me some promo materials (mostly posters) - but not the game itself, making it impossible for us to have a demo table...

Not happy.

I've only ordered 2 boxes of their space crusade miniatures. The order was sent with only one of the two boxes and took over a month to come in. After an angry email and 3 weeks waiting on the reply, they agreed to send out a new box. In my email I refused to pay shipping since they original invoice showed the price and shipping cost of two boxes. Another month later and I got the second box.

Overall quality? Eh..detail is good, but even my car primer (which will stick to Chinese resin without washing it) flakes off after hours of trying to get the release agent off.
So the models look nice, Prodos is a terribly unreliable company, and painting the models doesn't seem intended based on personal experience.

skarsol wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

Agusto wrote:
Is the anger towards Prodos coming from an old, failed, Kickstarter... or something? Because I have purchased quite a few boxes of their Space Crusade-line for my 40K Slaanesh armies and they have always delivered the goods without any problems. They even sent me a free extra missile launcher arm when I emailed them and asked them nicely So I am wondering why Prodos is getting so much flak here on Dakka?

Did you pre-order the Space Crusade game? How is it?

If you did pre-order it, they will refund you, which is nice I guess, unless you actually wanted the game.

My understanding is that this is correct, and that there will still be a way to get the game later on in the year.

My purchase of the board game was just refunded with a message that seems to indicate they're refunding everyone as "part of the Space Crusade Refund Program."

Edit: And the game is no longer available for purchase.

skarsol wrote:
My purchase of the board game was just refunded with a message that seems to indicate they're refunding everyone as "part of the Space Crusade Refund Program."

Edit: And the game is no longer available for purchase.

Right. It's going to undergo another round of development, but we won't know what is changing or how much is changing until Q4.

Amazing how they can refund people for stuff they haven't produced, except when it comes to AvP KS backers.

 mmzero252 wrote:

Overall quality? Eh..detail is good, but even my car primer (which will stick to Chinese resin without washing it) flakes off after hours of trying to get the release agent off.
So the models look nice, Prodos is a terribly unreliable company, and painting the models doesn't seem intended based on personal experience.

Best ordered from un-related stores with the items already in stock. I haven't had any issues with priming (I did so by hand too).

I ordered the board game through Wayland, but canceled it back in January after they refused to reply to any of the questions I sent them. (Edit: Prodos refused to answer. Wayland were excellent)

Agusto wrote:
I... did not know that. Shame, I really like their minatures and it is nice to have a company that sells 40K proxies that doesn't need hours upon hours in order to wash the mold release-agents away But I still say that they are good and quick when it comes to delivering models though.

This is a hot mess of a company. This Space Crusade fiasco is just another in a long stream of hot messes that are smelling and steamy.
Lack of business sense, lack of ownership, lack of accountability.... stay well away from them, and get your stuff second hand, or from another source who you can vouch for that has the stuff you want on hand. Prodos is garbage. Stay away from them, or they will do what they have done to everyone else and rob Peter to pay Paul.

So in a situation like this, does Prodos have the actual money on hand (i.e. are they just netting interest on funds that they borrowed from a potential consumer - then sending the money back - having netted that interest free of charge?)

What will be interesting to see is when their 2nd KS campaign as Archon starts shipping in mid-July. Hopefully without too many hitches.

LOAD seemed to go smooth, for the most part.

At least they're doing right refunding the game to those who preordered it.

My guess is that it ends up getting Kickstarted in some form, as the next game they're doing isn't slated to KS until 2018.

I very much see them in a position similar to CMON was when getting started. We know how things went for them before...

Let me know when I can expect a refund for the AvP stuff they owe me.

 CptJake wrote:
Let me know when I can expect a refund for the AvP stuff they owe me.

Roughly never.

skarsol wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Let me know when I can expect a refund for the AvP stuff they owe me.

Roughly never.

Pretty much. There was a group of people trying to bring legal procedings against them (they have a facebook page - Prodos Games: Legal Action) in the UK, the country they claimed to be operating out of. iirc They sent people (now that I look into it, it was a bailiff...) to the business address, only to find that Prodos had moved out and taken their business abroad. They supposedly have an office in New York now instead...

skarsol wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

Agusto wrote:
Is the anger towards Prodos coming from an old, failed, Kickstarter... or something? Because I have purchased quite a few boxes of their Space Crusade-line for my 40K Slaanesh armies and they have always delivered the goods without any problems. They even sent me a free extra missile launcher arm when I emailed them and asked them nicely So I am wondering why Prodos is getting so much flak here on Dakka?

Did you pre-order the Space Crusade game? How is it?

If you did pre-order it, they will refund you, which is nice I guess, unless you actually wanted the game.

Yeah, took a month & a paypal dispute, but they'll refund (eventually).

 krazynadechukr wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

Agusto wrote:
Is the anger towards Prodos coming from an old, failed, Kickstarter... or something? Because I have purchased quite a few boxes of their Space Crusade-line for my 40K Slaanesh armies and they have always delivered the goods without any problems. They even sent me a free extra missile launcher arm when I emailed them and asked them nicely So I am wondering why Prodos is getting so much flak here on Dakka?

Did you pre-order the Space Crusade game? How is it?

If you did pre-order it, they will refund you, which is nice I guess, unless you actually wanted the game.

Yeah, took a month & a paypal dispute, but they'll refund (eventually).

They actually forcibly refunded everyone last week.