Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

12" for the Jetbike
D6" for Fleet skill
6" in Assault phase

Not shabby.

Even better, forget the jetbike and take a WSJP:
12" Warp Spider move
D6" for Fleet skill
2D6" in Assault Phase

Up to 30" move... just don't roll doubles....

You can fleet with a jetbike?

I dont think Bikes can fleet. Otherwise normal gaurdians on jetbikes would be able to fleet also, as gaurdians on foot can fleet.

The warpspider thing sounds possible though.

Well guardian jetbikes can't fleet because "fleet of foot" is not listed as an ability in their army list entry.

But I'm not finding any rule that supports the conclusion that autarchs, farseers or warlocks lose their fleet ability when equipped with jetbikes (or wings/spiderpacks for autarchs).

Just so I get this straight:

1.) The Autarch rides forward 12 inches on his ultra sci-fi flying jetbike.

2.) lands, does the grownup-on-a-tricycle waddle in order to fleet of foot d6 inches.

3.) Then charges 6 inches in the assault phase?

Posted By logan007 on 11/10/2006 6:59 AM
Just so I get this straight:

1.) The Autarch rides forward 12 inches on his ultra sci-fi flying jetbike.

2.) lands, does the grownup-on-a-tricycle waddle in order to fleet of foot d6 inches.

3.) Then charges 6 inches in the assault phase?

Yes.

The scary thing is, this actually matters because it avoids turboboosting and thus loosing the 3+ armor save. No more psycannon fear when you want to move far. Is there really nothing about the fleet rule that disallows it while on a jetbike?

I thought 3+ armor save individuals could not fleet? Only 4+ or worse?

In the new book, AFAIK (and I don't have it), the Autarch, even with his 3+, can fleet.

The 3rd ed codex had one entry for the fleet of foot rule which specified that models in 3+ armor (with the exception of certain exarchs) could not fleet. In the new codex, since its a universal rule now, fleet of foot is listed under each individual entry in the army list if they are allowed to fleet. There are no longer any exceptions saying guys with heavy weapons or guys in 3+ armor can't fleet. If they have the rule they have the rule and there are no longer any conditions that remove it. Its a notable loophole in the rules.

 

Point of note: in 3rd ed, swooping hawks could always fleet if they wanted to

 

Something someone may want to look up (I don't have my book) is weather or not fleet of foot is one of those special abilities you lose if an independent character joins a squad that doesn't have the rule.

Yes, fleet does have an asterisk, is lost by character joining a unit without it. So a jetbike warlock who is part of a guardian jetbike squad can't fleet (since they can't fleet), and a jetbike farseer or autarch who joins a guardian jetbike squad also can't fleet.

In the 3rd edition codex, swooping hawk exarchs weren't listed in the list of exarchs who could fleet in spite of a 3+ save--so that meant that a hawk unit with an exarch couldn't fleet in 3rd edition.

Fleet of FOOT (!)...

"There are many variants of this rule: Fleet of Foot, Fleet of Claw, even Fleet of Hoof.  Title aside, all models with these abilities..." (74)

A farseer or autarch is Fleet of Foot when on foot.  When on a bike it doesn't matter what you call it: Fleet of Bike is fine; the effect is the same.

If you want a fluff explanation, how about the fact that all Eldar technology is psychically active and interacts with the user's mind on some level.  So why wouldn't the most powerful psykers in the galaxy (or strong-willed individuals like autarchs) be able to coax a bit more boost out of their bikes?

Because thats "Turboboosting" then?

Btw: Did you consider it might not be coinidence that foot, hoof etc are things you walk(!) on?

I seem to remember in 3rd ed that characters that could normally fleet, when placed on a bike, could no longer fleet.

I know thatt is old rules and may very well be wrong, but fleeting on a bike doesnt make a whole lot of sense. I like the remark that a poster left earlier in this thread about how the bike moves 12" and then acts like a grownup lifting the bike up while straddling it, "Fleeting" towards the enemy and then assaulting.

The only thing this concept can assault is intelligence. But thats 40K for ya.

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 11/10/2006 1:07 PM
Yes, fleet does have an asterisk, is lost by character joining a unit without it. So a jetbike warlock who is part of a guardian jetbike squad can't fleet (since they can't fleet)...

Well, gaurdians on foot can fleet but lose that ability when they are mounted on jetbikes.

Now rationalize how the autarch is different.

If you want a fluff explanation, how about the fact that all Eldar technology is psychically active and interacts with the user's mind on some level.  So why wouldn't the most powerful psykers in the galaxy (or strong-willed individuals like autarchs) be able to coax a bit more boost out of their bikes?

Maybe because Autarchs arent psykers? Even if they were, why bother with jetbikes if your mind is so powerful? Why not just go all "Pan-fo" and use mental flatulence as your mode of transportation?
I dont buy it for a single second.

I just dont see how you can change fleet of FOOT to fleet of BIKE. There are many forms of the "fleet" rules, but fleet of bike isnt among them if you want to get pedantic and argue RAW.

Otherwise, I can find nothing that will disallow the use of fleet on a jetbike in the rule book, but like fleeting during your opponents shooting phase, you might expect not to have many opponents in the future.

This puts the Kraftworld back into the missing cheese eldar are so reknowned for.

There's also fleet of wing for things like gargoyles and swooping hawks.

The reason guardians on bike lose the ability is that they become a different entry when given bikes, and the other entry doesn't have fleet.

Autarch with warp jump pack can move 24" w/o fleet though. Well, 23" and not die unless he's attached to a spider squad. If he can fleet with the jump pack on, then up to 29". Not that I'd risk the warp jump with an Autarch.

I picture it more as him landing, strapping the jetbike to his back, and hobbling 1d6"

Double checking rules and army list entries it looks like their isn't anything saying that only infantry can fleet, so I'm sure some of you rules loophole guys will be all over this. Too bad too, because the intent is actually clear in this case.

This falls firmly into the "legal by RAW but will get you slapped if you try it in an actual game" category.

According to fluff all Eldar are psychic. They move stuff around by telekenisis as part of their everyday lives. Weapons are aimed and fired partly by telepathy and bond with the users. The vyper pilot and the vyper gunner are in constant telepathic communication.

But fluff aside, I don't see any foundation for thinking that this is an oversight or a loophole. Guardians don't "lose" the ability when they ride jetbikes: guardian jetbikes are a different unit type that has different rules. Just like guardian jetbikes don't "lose" their shuriken catapults or weapon platforms when they get on jetbikes. They never had them in the first place.

They fire with their minds?

No wonder their ballistic skill is so crappy.

I foresee a FAQ a few years from now...

Seriously, why does this change qualify as an "oversight" when other changes don't?

It used to be that grav platforms kept guardians from fleeting. Now there's no mention of that rule, so we conclude that the rule changed. Grav platforms used to keep them from boarding wave serpents too, same deal now. It used to be that starcannons got 3 shots. Now the book says 2, so we conclude that it's only 2 now.

I don't see anybody saying that starcannons being heavy 2 now is an oversight and anybody who plays it that way is going to make enemies.

It is probably because GW is well known for making oversights, so the common reaction to grey areas in rules is that it must be an oversight.

Actually, the "no fleet with platforms" has been addressed by the "platform weapons count as assault" rule. It's in the Guardians entry.

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 11/10/2006 8:56 PM
But fluff aside, I don't see any foundation for thinking that this is an oversight or a loophole.

Perhaps because there was a precedent set in third edition regarding this issue?

Most new gamers wont mind the fleet of...bike, but people who have been playing for awhile may still remember not being able to use a fleet move when mounted on a jet bike.

I dont see it as a major issue really, as most people want to equip their autarchs on bike with laserlances so far, so losing that bit of first strike before assault just to get 6" is fine by me.

If the guy wasnt a cheesemeister and asked how to settle this niggly ruling before the game, I might very well allow him to do so. If he just assumes that he can fleet (because anyone trying to pull this should know better and be wary of people who have some semblance of common sense) and is a complete ass about it (RAW! RAW! RAW!), then yes, you can expect not to find opponents very easily.

As you can plainly see, most people quiping into this thread find that tactic less than savory. RAW or not.

Its like saying Shining spears dont have eldar jetbikes because it doesnt say so in their wargear entry (which it doesnt consequently). Obviously they are on eldar jetbikes, otherwise they may as well walk up to enemies and stick them with their lances.

But now by RAW, you cannot make a 6" assault move because of the very obvious oversight. Yes, oversights do exist.

There are only so many things you can argue raw with. Common sense should have some role here.

*wanders off mumbling about "Fleeting bikes"*

Anyone that never played or read a 3rd edition eldar codex who read the new codex and the v4 rulebook would see no reason why an Autarch loses fleet when he gets a bike, while a look at page 65 under unit type along with the fluff and models would make it pretty clear that shining spears have jetbikes.

The 3+ armor is no real reason since there are 2+ armor people listed on the opposite page with the fleet rule.

Just for kicks, which of the other 3 types of Autarchs do you think could fleet due to intent?

Walking Autarch
Swooping Hawk winged Autarch
Warp Jump Pack Autarch

I don't care. If my opponent wants to move that bit further with an Autarch w/o turboboosting and lose the inv save and leave the other non turbo boosting bike units he's likely to be with, so be it. I won't argue it as he isn't all that by his lonesome.

I don't see anything unsavory about it or against intent. I noticed this ability right off the bat.

Fluff wise, the autarach is a bit more skilled than a normal guy on a bike, and can drive it with maneuverability (IE still have an assault move afterwords) faster.