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Wow Ozzy, that's great. You called him a girl. What's next, you going to tell him your dad can beat up his? For Pete's sake could you get any more childish? I understand you've drank the Kool AId and won't admit how horrible the Dark Angels Codex is, but at least raise the level of your insults to keep up with the rest of the regulars. Dakka has a reputation to protect, you know? Barring that, maybe you could just fade away into obscurity like the real Ozymandias, but it seems too much to hope for.

I did not call him a girl, I merely followed his lead and asked him to prove that he was not one. He was asking me to prove ridiculous things, I responded in the only way he could understand. Hopefully he understands now that going on a forum, calling everyone a liar and an idiot is no way to have an argument.

I'm sorry if that offended you Rygoth.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

In case any of you get bored and decide to leave the argument

Yeah, I hate the "OMG PROVE IT ON THE INTERNETS" stuff too. I think giving the other guy the unreasonable burden of proof for everything is rule #1 for intarweb arguments.

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. A cornacopia of stupid. The Fountain of Duh.

PRICELESS

Even though that was directed at me, I still laughed out loud.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Triggerbaby, if you ever get banned from dakka, I will personally carpet bomb the mods domiciles in vengeance.

Posted By Buoyancy on 05/30/2007 8:59 PM

Not to mention your maths is poor, the las/plas has the following (rounded) chance of glancing/penetrate per turn.
range 25"+ = 55%
range 13-24" = 70%
range 0-12" = 80%

Would you care to explain to us all how you managed to take (2/3)*(1/2) (which equals the chance of a damaging hit on AV 11 with a plasma gun between 13"-24" , and come up with 1/6 (0.15)? Because the actual answer is 1/3. Would you then care to explain how you managed to add an additional plasma gun shot and have that shot have a worse chance of damaging the tank than the shot before it? You'll note, that 80-70=10, while 70-55=15. Getting two different results for two identical calculations should be a pretty big tip-off that you're doing something wrong.

For someone who keeps harping on about staticics you have just displayed a complete lack of understanding of said.

Go back and look at the quote I replied to, then go and and do some reading on probability.  Actually doing your own research will be more enilghtening than me explaining it.  But i'll give you a hint, look up about the difference between averages and probabilities.

Posted By Buoyancy on 05/30/2007 8:38 PM

...  accept the glaringly obvious fact that the DA Codex is numerically inferior in nearly every way to the SM codex. Any list that you can make using the DA Codex can be made more powerfully using the SM Codex for the same point cost.

Of course those who say the DA codex is nice and balanced but would probably agree with that statement, as evidence of how overpowered the SM codex is.

My Gawd...

This thread is like a really, really, really bad traffic accident... you know you should, you know you want to, but you just CAN'T look away!

Is it just me, or is all this discussion, heat, angst, and personal insults (not to mention the bit about the 12 year old girl, which I thought was pathetic beyond belief) all a bit pointless ?

Considering at best guess the subject under discussion won't be resolved for at least another 1 - 2 years or so, and anything might happen in the meantime?

Just my 2 cents...

That's right, you can't look away, precisely because it's turned ugly.

However, I'd like to point out that not all participants have equal responsability in making it ugly.

Buoyancy has been using very obvious troll tactics along the discussion.
Amongst other things, Buoyancy has :
- cut the contribution of other members in slices to answer to every tidbit by a dismissive comment, which enables him to avoid recognising the validity of the arguments that are not his, as "Don't tell me you're one of those fools who actually believes that there's tactical complexity in W40K" (treating him a fool at the same time, without actually doing it, wich is typical of trollish dishonesty).
- insulted Ozymandias, in a typical trollish way : I don't say you're stupid because of this, but I say you're stupid because of this, as in "No, you're less intelligent because you refuse to accept the glaringly obvious fact that the DA Codex is numerically inferior in nearly every way to the SM codex.".
- refused to adress Ozymandias's arguments as arguments that deserve to be adressed, as in "I see no reason to avoid insulting people who make it painfully clear that they aren't intelligent enough to belong in a debate".

All of that is the most schocking display of troll tactics against the otherwise polite and sorted Ozymandias, who finally broke down and answered in kind - after which, fellow posters that I would have thought more enlightened started pointing out to him how childish it was.
Calling Buoyancy a 12 year old little girl - whether you just imply the insult or actually deliver the insult is not relevant - was not the greatest display of maturity, but given the circumstances, it is highly understandable. And Buoyancy probably is 12 years old anyway - or he needs to grow up.

Well, as always, DO NOT FEED THE TROLL !!!!! (for C sake!!!).

I'll not say how surprised I am at how people of otherwise admirable courtesy did miss to recognise the signs and apply this rule, because I do know how not feeding the troll (and kicking it sometimes) is hard - hell, it put an end to my happy, contented, satisfied lurking...

Best,
Fumble.

Posted By Fumble on 05/31/2007 4:36 AM

Hi Ozy. Are you so terminally lame that you need a clone account to defend your crap too? Look out! Here come the one post wonders!

Posted By CaptainLoken on 05/28/2007 8:59 PM
I have really enjoyed the stuff on the next Chaos Codex thread, but I saw some posts about a new Space Marine Codex in there as well.  I was just wondering what people have heard.  Please feel free to post.

This is all your fault! >

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 05/31/2007 4:51 AM

Posted By Fumble on 05/31/2007 4:36 AM

Hi Ozy. Are you so terminally lame that you need a clone account to defend your crap too? Look out! Here come the one post wonders!

Man, you're making an asumption there, and a bad one at that. I hope you'll feel suitably embarassed when you realise you're on the wrong track.

FYI, I have an account with the same name (Fumble) on warseer and bolterandchainsword - granted, not very active, but very interested in modelling and rumours.

I never thought I'd have to justify my existence.

I'll try to not make assumptions about you, nyarlathotep...

Do I even exist?

People getting upset - quite upset - because of a game? Discussing a game?

Hey, I don't venerate Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn, and I despise his Gaunt's Ghosts.

Sometimes you just have to wonder how things went so badly in a civil discussion between grown men, and what's the singular good reason people are having to call each other to prove themselves.

Isn't this thread long past it's usefulness?

Posted By puree on 05/31/2007 1:33 AM
Go back and look at the quote I replied to, then go and and do some reading on probability.  Actually doing your own research will be more enilghtening than me explaining it.  But i'll give you a hint, look up about the difference between averages and probabilities.

I've already corrected you once, so you've already received all the benefit of the doubt that you're ever going to get. Would you care to explain to us all why we can't use the average expected values to determine, on average, how many events will occur? Because nobody really cares what the probability is that you get at least one damaging hit when you are comparing survivability between infantry models and vehicles.

Posted By Fumble on 05/31/2007 4:36 AM
- cut the contribution of other members in slices to answer to every tidbit by a dismissive comment

You know, I'm really tired of all the whiners on the internet who act as though a point by point rebuttal is somehow unfair. If you can't even manage to make individual points that stand up, then why are you making posts in the first place?

- insulted Ozymandias, in a typical trollish way

Yes, I did insult him, because I insult everybody who refuses to follow even basic rules of evidence in a debate.

- refused to adress Ozymandias's arguments as arguments that deserve to be adressed

Please don't lie about my arguments. I addressed his arguments, then insulted him.

All of that is the most schocking display of troll tactics against the otherwise polite and sorted Ozymandias, who finally broke down and answered in kind - after which, fellow posters that I would have thought more enlightened started pointing out to him how childish it was.

It's pathetic how easily people like yourself are taken in by the fact that people like ozymandias pretend to be polite. I'll ask you a serious question, why on earth do you care if somebody is polite in an online discussion? You act as though being polite is some kind of virtue that's more important than being correct. It's almost as if you believe that the validity of a person's arguments has something to do with how they are presented. Ozymandias was not being polite in this thread. He was being a condescending little twerp who baited all intelligent people by posting idiotic statements hidden under a layer of fake politeness.

Sorry Buoyancy, it's a bit hard to stand by you when all the way back in page 7 you are already making remarks about the intelligence of the people who are disagreeing with your statements in a discreet way (regarding intelligent people and the DA codex).

You should realize by now that you're not gathering supporters, just generally antipathy, by further insulting people who label you the same way you labelled those on the other side of an argument with you.

Ozymandias has put up stuff that he has to backup in order to sound credible, yet you haven't played the DA codex from what I understood and instead rely on the opinion of others to form your own.

Lastly, you might argue about "gathering supporters" and that you're not here to create a fan-base. In this case, I should ask you your reasons for being in said discussion. I always thought that entering a forum discussion was to convince people of our point of view.

>>You act as though being polite is some kind of virtue that's more important than being correct.

Correctness is a state of the world, not a human virtue. If someone is correct it is not because they created that situation, but because the facts lie that way. As John Maynard Keynes said, "If the facts change, I change my mind."

Politeness is a creation of human society, which individuals may practise or not.

Politeness is often of help in convincing others that one's point of view is correct. For that reason and others it is a widely admired virtue.