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Brother Ramses wrote:Please BR, Deep Strike any of your models without the Movement Phase.


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Brother Ramses wrote:Please BR AND Apwil, Deep Strike any of your models without the Movement Phase.

I never said you didn't Deep Strike in the Movement Phase. There is no argument that Deep Strike occurs at the beginning of the movement phase.

As I pointed out in an earlier post simply because events occur in a certain phase of the game does not mean that all the rules for a standard action in that turn apply to them and referred to the Doom of Malan'Tai Spirit Leech ability as an example.

I said that you do not need the standard movement rules to resolve a Deep Strike. They resolve just fine without them due to the inclusion of the mishap table.

Yad wrote:

agnosto wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:
The Rules ACTUALLY say: "the model is placed anywhere on the table."

My model isn't the ta.....you know what, I'm tired; I'm going to go take a nap.

Not considered part of 'on the table', right? Wrong. That's a slippery slope to run down. Where does that stop? Everything, the game table; the flock; the terrain; the models, are all 'on the table' and in play. All models/units must adhere to the movement restrictions put forth in the Movement section of the rules. Deep Striking models, skimmers, wraiths, all have their own exceptions to these restrictions.

Now, nobody is actually going to physically place a model on top of yours, so I wouldn't even consider that a feasible counter-argument. Do you allow the Monolith the deep strike directly into an enemy unit/model?

-Yad

Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

apwill4765 wrote:We've run over this ground a dozen times now, and boy it's getting tiring. It may be time to close this thread until a ruling is made. I'll put up a sixpack that GW rules our way, though, since it's RaW.

Though I agree with you wholeheartedly yad

I agree with you, however, its our Opinion that it is the RAW, there is a good deal of room for interpretation in these rules, which is why we have this arguement.

one side believes one thing, another side believes another thing.

the sad part about all of this is that GW will with almost a 99% certainty "fix" the problem with a FAQ and not an Errata, which is a shame because that will not change opinions, only create further animosity towards though who are in the minority.

agnosto wrote:

Yad wrote:

agnosto wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:
The Rules ACTUALLY say: "the model is placed anywhere on the table."

My model isn't the ta.....you know what, I'm tired; I'm going to go take a nap.

Not considered part of 'on the table', right? Wrong. That's a slippery slope to run down. Where does that stop? Everything, the game table; the flock; the terrain; the models, are all 'on the table' and in play. All models/units must adhere to the movement restrictions put forth in the Movement section of the rules. Deep Striking models, skimmers, wraiths, all have their own exceptions to these restrictions.

Now, nobody is actually going to physically place a model on top of yours, so I wouldn't even consider that a feasible counter-argument. Do you allow the Monolith the deep strike directly into an enemy unit/model?

-Yad

Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

I wouldn't consider the model part of the table, but the terrain/ground that they are standing on is.

So your argument isn't that the position he chose is invalid, it's that you are going to inflict violence upon them if he actually tries to physically place a Mawloc on top of your models?

For situations like these I suggest getting a coat hanger or something so you can make little removable legs for your trygon base. Then you can place it above models without physically touching them.

Then your modeling to advantage.


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And not using the base provided with the model.

Demogerg wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:We've run over this ground a dozen times now, and boy it's getting tiring. It may be time to close this thread until a ruling is made. I'll put up a sixpack that GW rules our way, though, since it's RaW.

Though I agree with you wholeheartedly yad

I agree with you, however, its our Opinion that it is the RAW, there is a good deal of room for interpretation in these rules, which is why we have this arguement.

one side believes one thing, another side believes another thing.

the sad part about all of this is that GW will with almost a 99% certainty "fix" the problem with a FAQ and not an Errata, which is a shame because that will not change opinions, only create further animosity towards though who are in the minority.

I agree to an extent, except that opinions are subjective and not necessarily subject to criteria that makes one opinion more right than another. A rules interpretation can be more correct based on the amount of evidence that exists to back up a certain interpretation. In this case, the correct interpretation is that the mawloc may deepstrike anywhere it pleases, including on top of enemy models. 60% of dakka agrees with this interpretation (for what that is worth), Gwar! agrees with this interpretation (for what that is worth), and the INAT FAQ agrees as well. I think we are definitely correct in this situation; opinions can't really claim to be "correct" because they are not objective.

Also, I feel no animosity toward those who think the opposite. I get a little heated because I like to argue, but it's nothing personal of course.

Brother Ramses wrote: Then your modeling to advantage.

agreed. which is a bad bad thing.

Brother Ramses wrote:

And not using the base provided with the model.

he would still be using the base, just the base wouldnt be touching the table, the legs would.

Last I checked, there wasn't a single coat hanger in any of the GW products I have bought.

agnosto wrote:
Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

I've asked it a couple of times but have yet to get an actual answer. Do any of you allow Necron players to Deep Strike their Monolith directly on enemy units/models?

Not physically place it. Not target an exposed area close to an enemy unit/model and hope for a favorable scatter, but directly on the unit/model. I for one have always allowed a Necron player to Deep Strike into my units.

-Yad

I still wanna know if I can shoot a mawloc with the thunderfire cannon....it shoots underground after all...

Yad wrote:

agnosto wrote:
Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

I've asked it a couple of times but have yet to get an actual answer. Do any of you allow Necron players to Deep Strike their Monolith directly on enemy units/models?

Not physically place it. Not target an exposed area close to an enemy unit/model and hope for a favorable scatter, but directly on the unit/model. I for one have always allowed a Necron player to Deep Strike into my units.

-Yad

They won't answer. That example and spore mines pretty much puts the whole thing to rest. People just don't want to play by RaW if it lets them avoid losing their plastic soldiers.

Yad wrote:

agnosto wrote:
Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

I've asked it a couple of times but have yet to get an actual answer. Do any of you allow Necron players to Deep Strike their Monolith directly on enemy units/models?

Not physically place it. Not target an exposed area close to an enemy unit/model and hope for a favorable scatter, but directly on the unit/model. I for one have always allowed a Necron player to Deep Strike into my units.

-Yad

Unless the Monolith rules specifically say it is exempt from that aspect of the deep strike rules, no.

agnosto wrote:

Yad wrote:

agnosto wrote:
Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

I've asked it a couple of times but have yet to get an actual answer. Do any of you allow Necron players to Deep Strike their Monolith directly on enemy units/models?

Not physically place it. Not target an exposed area close to an enemy unit/model and hope for a favorable scatter, but directly on the unit/model. I for one have always allowed a Necron player to Deep Strike into my units.

-Yad

Unless the Monolith rules specifically say it is exempt from that aspect of the deep strike rules, no.

Hey they don't. And neither do spore mines. Guess how GW ruled it though?

apwill4765 wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Yad wrote:

agnosto wrote:
Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

I've asked it a couple of times but have yet to get an actual answer. Do any of you allow Necron players to Deep Strike their Monolith directly on enemy units/models?

Not physically place it. Not target an exposed area close to an enemy unit/model and hope for a favorable scatter, but directly on the unit/model. I for one have always allowed a Necron player to Deep Strike into my units.

-Yad

Unless the Monolith rules specifically say it is exempt from that aspect of the deep strike rules, no.

Hey they don't. And neither do spore mines. Guess how GW ruled it though?

Eh, it's GW, they'll say anything to make a buck.

LoL. I'll give you that, but given that they are making the rules, I'd say that is how it should be played. . .

I have never played a Necron player that even tried to Deep Strike his Monolith on or within 1". Had I, I would come down on the same issue as Agnosto.

As for the Spore Mine issue, I have already addressed that in the other thread but will just touch on it now.

Since Spore Mines cannot Deep Strike into or within 1" of my models with the new codex, I see it as GW fixing that incorrect interpretation from 4th edition.

How the heck is the mawloc any different BR?

apwill4765 wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Yad wrote:

agnosto wrote:
Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

I've asked it a couple of times but have yet to get an actual answer. Do any of you allow Necron players to Deep Strike their Monolith directly on enemy units/models?

Not physically place it. Not target an exposed area close to an enemy unit/model and hope for a favorable scatter, but directly on the unit/model. I for one have always allowed a Necron player to Deep Strike into my units.

-Yad

Unless the Monolith rules specifically say it is exempt from that aspect of the deep strike rules, no.

Hey they don't. And neither do spore mines. Guess how GW ruled it though?

GW ruled that it was wrong. Proof being that in the NEW codex, Spore Mines are not allowed to deep strike on or within 1" of a model.

Brother Ramses wrote:Then your modeling to advantage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And not using the base provided with the model.

The legs would only come into action when you need to place a model on top of others in a way as to accurately present it's position without damaging the paint jobs of anything beneath it. When the model in question is actually in play the legs would be taken off and the model would sit normally on the table, thus garnering no gameplay advantage and no 'modeling to win'.

Would you seriously argue that someone was modelling for advantage if they placed a Mawloc on an open space, it scattered so it was covering a mess of troops and the player pulled out little legs for the base to stand on so he could accurately represent it's position post-scatter so it doesn't get 'moved around' when it would be taken away, the blast marker placed where it used to be, then the mawloc placed back again where it used to be? It confers no rules advantage and, if anything only serve to simplify the process and remove unintentional errors.

apwill4765 wrote:

agnosto wrote:

Yad wrote:

agnosto wrote:
Here's how I'll play it. I'll look at my opponent and say, "The rules say you can place your model anywhere on the table, now you might think that my model is part of the table but I want you to think it over very carefully while I shine my golden gloves pendant."

I've asked it a couple of times but have yet to get an actual answer. Do any of you allow Necron players to Deep Strike their Monolith directly on enemy units/models?

Not physically place it. Not target an exposed area close to an enemy unit/model and hope for a favorable scatter, but directly on the unit/model. I for one have always allowed a Necron player to Deep Strike into my units.

-Yad

Unless the Monolith rules specifically say it is exempt from that aspect of the deep strike rules, no.

Hey they don't. And neither do spore mines. Guess how GW ruled it though?

Yeah, but those are just house rules.

Enough of this. The subject has been played out totally.

Locking thread to avoid terminal boredom.