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2011/07/08 11:28:44
Subject: Love for Britain, love for America, no love for France?
Albatross wrote:Well yes, some of the 'Founding Fathers' were British-born. Are they not American?
Don't tell Palin.
All of their families were weren't they? I read a book once that said the war for independance was "essentially a civil war"
So George Washington is from the North East of England really.. thats why he could fight.
Its not really a loss if we lost to other English people surely?
Score another in the win box!
We can concur. Which makes me wonder, when did the different regions start developing different accents? Which one was closer to "British" at the time? I know there are regions in Appalachia that linguistically are supposedly closer to 1700s English than current British.
Yeah, It's a weird one, isn't it? I've heard tell that (whisper it) the American accent is closer to what English people may have spoken around the time of the American Rebellion/Treason/Revolution/English Civil War pt.II....whatever you want to call it. Then again, I've also heard it said that the 'brummie' accent (think 'Ozzy Osbourne') is the 'Old English' accent, and has remained largely intact due to Birmingham's geographical location, i.e. away from the coast. I know that my accent ('Smoggy' - Middlesbrough) is a mix of Nordic (proximity to the North Sea, historically part of Danelaw) and Irish (historically a major area of Irish immigration due to the the second-largest port in England after Liverpool. The two accents have a similar twang) , as well as North Yorkshire English.
I've heard very posh east-coast Americans that sound pretty much English. Anyone agree?
thenoobbomb wrote:May I say that we people dont love Brittain over here?
Because for example the Brittain news:
Brittain welcomes Obama
The queen and a daily trip
[insert soe other Brittain related stuff here]
To be short, there is olny stuff about Brittain on the news there.
I'd like to point out that this person does NOT represent the Dutch's position on UK at all.
The UK is awesome.
Go smoke your brains out, doesn't seem to be much left of it anyway
Also, them coming here for drugs gives me (LEGAL BTW) money. So shush!
2011/07/08 12:14:44
Subject: Love for Britain, love for America, no love for France?
Manstein wrote:Charlemagne is actually Karl der Grosse (the Great) and he was German. Not only was he born around Aachen, but almost all scholars agree that he spoke a form of Germanic idiom, most likely Old Ripuarian Franconian. So yeah... Germans get KARL the Great, not the French.
Eh, it isn't really that simple. Charlemagne founded both the French and German monarchies. And his people, the Franks, combined with the Roman influenced Gauls to form what we call the modern French ethnicity. The Franks also fused, over time, with other Germanic tribes to form what we now call the modern German ethnicity. This is distinct from German nationality in that it extends beyond the borders of Germany, just as the French ethnicity extends beyond the borders of France, though less clearly so. You have to remember that "Germanic" is not an ethnicity, but an ethno-linguistic category whereas "Frankish" is an ethnicity.
Honestly, crediting either the French or the Germans with Charlemagne doesn't make much sense, as neither group existed at the time. Charlemagne was a Frank, whose actions served to create both the modern German and French ethnic identities.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/07/08 18:14:02
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2011/07/09 00:26:57
Subject: Love for Britain, love for America, no love for France?
The east coast isn't very posh, but then again the east coast ranges from Maine all the way down to Florida. Now if you want to say New England then that's where the majority of the 'posh' is located. New England was founded by puritans trying to escape England compared to the southern colonies which were founded for profit.
The south had more ties to England than the north because of this, in fact during the Civil War the british aided the CSA , and a lot of the plantation houses were modeled after European designs. The idea of the 'southern gentleman' also followed suit. As far as people hating the french, the english had good cause to as much as the french had cause to hate the english.
The English directly founded the south for economic reasons and were basically employed by the English and had closer ties to 'Father England' compared to the North. Hatred of the French is genetic and passed on to the South which thinks that all frenchmen wear perfume and wave white flags compared to most of the north which is more open to the french.
As far as the french go and my personal interactions with them, I will have to gauge them on the french-canadians who are snobby a-holes. I would know because half my family decends from Quebec, with some bit of Austrian in there as well.
Speaking of which, Austria also produces Riesling wine.
I will have to say this though, you Brits will have to get over people calling you Great Britain. We accept you calling us the United States and saying things like "I'm going to the states.". Which state, we have 50 of the damned things and then some territories for crying out loud! Although Texas counts as an independent country most of the time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/09 00:28:30
2011/07/09 10:30:44
Subject: Love for Britain, love for America, no love for France?
Albatross wrote:I've heard very posh east-coast Americans that sound pretty much English. Anyone agree?
People from Boston that really have the thick accent kind of do.
I'm not sure if I'd qualify them as "posh" though.
I'm thinking of 'old money' north-easterners.
It's true; I've encountered it, although it's a pretty rarefied subset, mostly rich old families around Boston and New York. Some families/social circles have it, and certain boarding/prep schools and univerisites reinforce it. It's usually accompanied by a more formal diction and style of enunciation. Even though the accent isn't really British, it's similar, and the word usage/vocabulary is sometimes a bit more similar to British English. You can get some sense of it often in movies set at prep schools (like Dead Poets Society) or in this social set, like Whit Stillman's Metropolitan.
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Albatross wrote:Well yes, some of the 'Founding Fathers' were British-born. Are they not American?
Don't tell Palin.
All of their families were weren't they? I read a book once that said the war for independance was "essentially a civil war"
So George Washington is from the North East of England really.. thats why he could fight.
Its not really a loss if we lost to other English people surely?
Score another in the win box!
We can concur. Which makes me wonder, when did the different regions start developing different accents? Which one was closer to "British" at the time? I know there are regions in Appalachia that linguistically are supposedly closer to 1700s English than current British.
Yeah, It's a weird one, isn't it? I've heard tell that (whisper it) the American accent is closer to what English people may have spoken around the time of the American Rebellion/Treason/Revolution/English Civil War pt.II....whatever you want to call it. Then again, I've also heard it said that the 'brummie' accent (think 'Ozzy Osbourne') is the 'Old English' accent, and has remained largely intact due to Birmingham's geographical location, i.e. away from the coast. I know that my accent ('Smoggy' - Middlesbrough) is a mix of Nordic (proximity to the North Sea, historically part of Danelaw) and Irish (historically a major area of Irish immigration due to the the second-largest port in England after Liverpool. The two accents have a similar twang) , as well as North Yorkshire English.
I've heard very posh east-coast Americans that sound pretty much English. Anyone agree?
Id go one further and say that all English speakers who are posh sound the same!
Kiwis, Canadians, Americans, if you meet a really posh one, they all sound similar!
Basically posh is an accent. People think its English, (in the states they always think im Irish because English people talk like the Queen) but in a nutshell, I think posh IS an accent, as really posh English speakers sound the same regardless of nationality.
Remember American phscho? Patrick and all his posh mates sound like posh English!
Jesus! That is really super! How did a nitwit like you get so tasteful!"
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
2011/07/10 15:15:18
Subject: Love for Britain, love for America, no love for France?
halonachos wrote:The east coast isn't very posh, but then again the east coast ranges from Maine all the way down to Florida. Now if you want to say New England then that's where the majority of the 'posh' is located. New England was founded by puritans trying to escape England compared to the southern colonies which were founded for profit.
The south had more ties to England than the north because of this, in fact during the Civil War the british aided the CSA , and a lot of the plantation houses were modeled after European designs. The idea of the 'southern gentleman' also followed suit. As far as people hating the french, the english had good cause to as much as the french had cause to hate the english.
The English directly founded the south for economic reasons and were basically employed by the English and had closer ties to 'Father England' compared to the North. Hatred of the French is genetic and passed on to the South which thinks that all frenchmen wear perfume and wave white flags compared to most of the north which is more open to the french.
As far as the french go and my personal interactions with them, I will have to gauge them on the french-canadians who are snobby a-holes. I would know because half my family decends from Quebec, with some bit of Austrian in there as well.
Speaking of which, Austria also produces Riesling wine.
I will have to say this though, you Brits will have to get over people calling you Great Britain. We accept you calling us the United States and saying things like "I'm going to the states.". Which state, we have 50 of the damned things and then some territories for crying out loud! Although Texas counts as an independent country most of the time.
mattyrm wrote:
Basically posh is an accent. People think its English, (in the states they always think im Irish because English people talk like the Queen) but in a nutshell, I think posh IS an accent, as really posh English speakers sound the same regardless of nationality.
The general rule is that as you go up the socioeconomic ladder any accent that a person might have begins to get washed out due to higher levels of education, and a more diverse set of influences on speech due to greater opportunity for travel. So you get American English speakers that have more in common vocally with upper class Pakistani English speakers than, say, some guy from West Virginia.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2011/07/11 14:47:57
Subject: Love for Britain, love for America, no love for France?
dajobe wrote:
but nothing against mary poppins anyone!!! I WIN!
She lied to generations of children in claiming that a spoonful of sugar makes the medicine go down in such a delightful way. She's basically Pol Pot with an umbrella.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2011/07/11 16:03:50
Subject: Love for Britain, love for America, no love for France?
Frigian 582nd 
