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biccat wrote:I never said anything about "legal equality" (whatever that means), I said that sodomy laws weren't used to prosecute homosexuals for private behavior.

The very EXISTENCE of the case which outlawed sodomy laws to begin with, where the law was used to persecute a homosexual coule, proves otherwise.

Be in denial and revise history all you want, it doesn't change the fact taht you're in denial and revising history. The various laws in the US have been used to, and are STILL used to, persecute and discriminate against homosexuals even today.

Melissia wrote:Be in denial and revise history all you want, it doesn't change the fact taht you're in denial and revising history. The various laws in the US have been used to, and are STILL used to, persecute and discriminate against homosexuals even today.

I'll say it again: prove it. Cite your sources.

You are implying that there's some massive amount of discriminatory prosecution against homosexuals, both now and in the past, but haven't offered any evidence or support for your assertion.

The case in Lawrence is a rarity, and may actually have been set up.

Note that I really have no problem with staging cases (as long as everyone acts appropriately) to challenge the constitutionality of a law.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

biccat wrote:
You'll have to come up with some evidence that there was a practice of targetting homosexuals. Because like I said, and as the quote above shows, anti-sodomy laws weren't used to target, persecute, or otherwise interfere with private, consensual homosexual sodomy.

This is the one of the worst cases of History Revisionism I've ever seen.* If two private, consensual homoseuxal partners engaged in sodomy (which unbelieveably is not uncommon in homosexual partnerships) and there was evidence of it, such as a witness/photographs etc, then they could be prosecuted.

*And I've talked to Holocaust Denialists.

Also, one partner could change their mind and say it wasn't consensual.

biccat wrote:You are implying that there's some massive amount of discriminatory prosecution against homosexuals, both now and in the past, but haven't offered any evidence or support for your assertion.

Gay marriage is the most popular one right now, I believe, and the most overt one at the moment. It is definitely not the only one, nevermind non-legal methods of persecution.

Society inherently discriminates against homosexuals in the same way it discriminated against interracial marriages i he past. And yes, it is discrimination.

You mean the way more and more states are making it legal?

Monster Rain wrote:You mean the way more and more states are making it legal?

Which means it's getting better, but it hasn't gone away yet. Besides, the number of sates that have full and true legal marriage for same-sex couples I could almost count on one hand (New York being the sixth one, taking effect this very summer).

Just curious, I don't think the UK has an equivalent to this sort of law, does it? Their military seems pretty effective.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8493888.stm

Aha, they let the gays in ten years ago.

Monster Rain wrote:You mean the way more and more states are making it legal?

Persecution doesn't necessarily end with legal recognition. I assure you that discrimination against gays will continue in the military (like in the rest of the US) likely for decades after DADT is permanently buried. My guess is that if DADT were dead and done today, it would still be a problem at least to 2030.

@Da Boss. As is the case in most European nations. Hell, even some third world nations! It's not the first time the US is behind the curve on a social issue (won't be the last either).

Reminds of the top gear USA special where they almost get killed cause they wrote gay stuff on their cars...