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Nukes are destructive against buildings because they generate alot of energy in a small area inside an atmosphere, generating massive blast pressures. Thermal effects tend to be alot less destructive.

On top of that, the destructive effects also depend on the fact a nuclear blast is an omindirectional blast (large surface areas + high pressure = large amounts of force exerted on structures.) A laser is not an omnidirectional blast.

As far as the requirements of penetrating a wall. Depends on the wall and it depends on how you figure the lasgun is working. Are we talking a heat ray or are we talking "explosiive bursts" punching through it, and if so how many?

We know that lasgun bursts can create finge rthick holes (upper limit on diameter of several cm, as mentioned in Cadian blood.) to 5mm holes (one of the post Sabbat Martyr Ghosts novels.) They can also be used in a widebeam mode (Legion)

Also "megathule" isn't very useful since a thule as a RL measurement has nothing to do with energy. BEsides the context it is used in would tend to suggest total "energy" capacity for powerpack rather than sustained power output or power per shot (assuming joule = thule)

Sanctus Ferri wrote:The question is, can a large number of hits, as say, a squad or platoon concentrating their fire, or a soldier expending several energy packs burn through?

It's not actually a matter of burning through so much as it is the unprecedented rapid heating of the concrete causing damage to the concrete's structure.

I have no idea but common sense would tell me no. The statline would also tell me differently. Id say they might have the power to punch through maybe 15-20cm? But then again they probably dont use concrete in the 41st millenium so im not sure if that would apply. No idea really.

No.

Str 3, so it can cause the same equivalent damage that an adult human could do with a hand held weapon. (which is a surprising amount, but not meters of concrete in a single shot).

There are perhaps 4 "plausible" (as in not making up some magical properties to lasgun bolts, which they may or may not have) ways to drill through concrete:

1.) a heat ray drilling (melting, etc.) a hole through the target. This has the small problem that thermal properties can limit how "fast" one drills, and it is also not terribly efficient.

2.) you fire a single pulse full of lots of energy (A single "round") and blow a hole through the target, akin to high explosive. This will neither be efificent nor highly penetrating, since you're basically making a crater in the target, and its quite likely the collateral damage will be severe (including to the person firing if they are too close.) Also its unlikely that lasguns fire bolts that are a substitute for high explosive like that.

3.) you use a highly concentrated, rapidly delivered series of laser pulses to "drill" a hole in the target (think of a large number of explosions happening one after the other blasting their way through the target.) depending on how you fiddle the beam parameters (pulse duration and/or time betwen pulses, energy per pulse, number of pulses, etc.) you could drill a hole more efficiently through the target than with a heat ray or a single massive pulse. This one may or may not be possible, from what I've heard in the "realism" department one might run into problems when it comes to aspect ratios (the length of the hole you drill vs the diamater drilled. It is possible, for example that to punch through 2 metres of concrete you'd need to make a hole as big as your fist, which is again getting into the "lasguns as an alternate to high explosive" category.

4.) Lasguns are actually a highly penetrating particle beam (or perhaps hard x-rays or gamma rays) - this might make it easier to drill through, but those sorts of things can have problems of their own (like too much charged particle radiation leading to radiation poisoning.)

As it goes, two metres strikes me as a bit implasubile for several reasons:

a. - that implies an "armor pirecing" capability, which would be more in the realm of a hellgun, or a long-las/hot shotted weapon, rather than a standard laser weapon.

b. - While penetration matters, drilling a whole through that much concrete would be overkill on any normal organic opponent (EG your run of the mill heretic) - iIt might make sense if you're intending to slice through a whole charging army lengthwise with a single shot, but that's probably going beyond lasgun parameters again.

c. - as far as lasgun lethality goes, you want to make a big hole through your target (or lots of little holes), which doesn't require alot of extreme penetration to achieve, and the less energy you use per shot means the more ammo you have to keep putting holes in something (or someone.)

d. - 2 metres of penetration would mean the sorts of ocver we've seen in most 40K novels or fluff material would be utterly, utterly pointless. I haven't done the math, but there's a good chance that a lasgun that can punch through 2 metres of concrete would qualify as an anti-tank weapon which is again beyond what a lasgun does.

this is probably the best site I've ever found when it comes to sci fi energy weapons, especially lasers.

Thatguy91 wrote:I have no idea but common sense would tell me no. The statline would also tell me differently. Id say they might have the power to punch through maybe 15-20cm? But then again they probably dont use concrete in the 41st millenium so im not sure if that would apply. No idea really.

On the other hand it's another universe so another laws apply. If they say that Lasgun can break 3m of concrete - it can.
While in our universe it wouldn't punch trough 20cm.

Brother Coa wrote:

On the other hand it's another universe so another laws apply. If they say that Lasgun can break 3m of concrete - it can.
While in our universe it wouldn't punch trough 20cm.

If a codex or the rulebook or at least an official expansion would say A lasgun can penetrate x amount of Y, yes the lasgun could.
But it wasn't provided as a quote, it wasn't stated anywhere except a few people remember a BL novel saying so.

The lasgun is the small arms of the imperial guard. To give it a chance to penetrate fortifications is 'artistic license' of the author of said book,
but surely not a basis to draw consclusion of a weapons abilities from. GW provided the UIIP and this little green manual never stated a guardsmen should use a lasgun to penetrate something of the thickness of metres of concrete. It makes a point of wasting ammo tough...

Actually, the Primer is "only" a Black Library product as well, just not a novel. It's done in a similar vein to Xenology (which wants to tell you that Tau have toes).

But as Gav Thorpe said, there's thousands of different, overlapping interpretations of the setting between designers, authors, gamers and readers. None of them are wrong, and none of them override another. Just pick the one you like most.

CageUF wrote:No.

Str 3, so it can cause the same equivalent damage that an adult human could do with a hand held weapon. (which is a surprising amount, but not meters of concrete in a single shot).

Strength is not just raw strength, but also lethality. A knife wound for example is deadlier than a bullet wound, so even though the bullet/lasbolt strikes with more force the knife wound is still S3. Compare also the difference between a chainsword and a monomolecular sword in Dark Heresy-- the chainsword does more damage because the teeth of the chainsword rip and tear at flesh, leaving a very ragged scar and doing more damage to internal organs comared to a single smoothe sharp edge.

Lasguns have a penetration power equal to how badass the writer is trying to make the IG look. If the write (Abnett) wants the Guard to look like a competant and dangerous force, the lasgun can shoot through schools. If the writer is using the Guard as cannon fodder so his Mariens can look good by comparison, then the lasgun will have difficulty penetrating a wet paper sack.

This is irrefutable fact.

squidhills wrote:Lasguns have a penetration power equal to how badass the writer is trying to make the IG look. If the write (Abnett) wants the Guard to look like a competant and dangerous force, the lasgun can shoot through schools. If the writer is using the Guard as cannon fodder so his Mariens can look good by comparison, then the lasgun will have difficulty penetrating a wet paper sack.

This is irrefutable fact.

This quote is so true that even Tzeentch is impressed for not seeing it .

Probably on a higher power setting, but maybe only 6in or something.

What is the principle a LAsgun operates on? Is it localised atomic level energisation resulting in an explosion based on a very focused high powered Laser Beam? There must be some canon on this somewhere, if we could pin this back, we could extrapolate the power and therefore the likely penetrative power.

mwnciboo wrote:What is the principle a LAsgun operates on? Is it localised atomic level energisation resulting in an explosion based on a very focused high powered Laser Beam?

It superheats stuff. You guys and your localized-atomic-energizations

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:What is the principle a LAsgun operates on? Is it localised atomic level energisation resulting in an explosion based on a very focused high powered Laser Beam?

It superheats stuff. You guys and your localized-atomic-energizations

Nah thats a Melta gun....silly.

mwnciboo wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:What is the principle a LAsgun operates on? Is it localised atomic level energisation resulting in an explosion based on a very focused high powered Laser Beam?

It superheats stuff. You guys and your localized-atomic-energizations

Nah thats a Melta gun....silly.

No, a metagun melts stuff.

I want the Portal Gun in 40k. Imagine a Techmarine dropping through a hole and popping up at the objective.

What's a Metagun? Is that the new 6th Edition Meta ?

mwnciboo wrote:I want the Portal Gun in 40k. Imagine a Techmarine dropping through a hole and popping up at the objective.

What's a Metagun? Is that the new 6th Edition Meta ?

Whoa...what is a metagun? Even I don't know; but I know it melts stuff.

I have no idea where we are going with this Kami......

A metagun analyzes the relative strengths of foes before you even see them, so it knows what to equip itself as before the battle even begins. If it's likely you'll be facing lots of armor, it goes as a melta. If an infantry mob is in the cards, then it's a flamer.

Simple, really.

Psienesis wrote:A metagun analyzes the relative strengths of foes before you even see them, so it knows what to equip itself as before the battle even begins. If it's likely you'll be facing lots of armor, it goes as a melta. If an infantry mob is in the cards, then it's a flamer.

Simple, really.

Yep, just like quantum physics with a mix of advanced mathematics.
Simple for you who know how this things work, for us mortals - it's a gift from the Machine God.

The Metagun - a manifestation of the heisenberg uncertainty principle you can know what it is but not where it is or vice versa. Bottomline when you need a flamer you'll get a Melta, stands to reason.

I think a metagun would, when you fire it, unravel the plot of the story you're reading...

Or possibly exude "Cheese"

mwnciboo wrote:What is the principle a LAsgun operates on? Is it localised atomic level energisation resulting in an explosion based on a very focused high powered Laser Beam? There must be some canon on this somewhere, if we could pin this back, we could extrapolate the power and therefore the likely penetrative power.

It operates on shooting energy at a target and doing damage (burning, exploding, cutting apart, drillin holes in, or any combination thereof) in either a single shot or a barrage of shots. The most common "effects" would be either a heat ray to cause massive skin burning (las burns, incineration, etc.) or locally vaporizing parts of the target explosively (to blast holes in it, such as blowing off limbs or blowing apart the head.) The only functional difference between the Meltagun ans a lasweapon is the Melta is designed for higher power, shorter range work, and generally operating as a wider-focus heat ray. Meltas also may be either high tech flamethrowers or microwave weapons depending on source.

I think it is safe to say that, regardless of what a megathule is or how many of them a powercell operates on, they are filled with the ubiquitous element "handwavium".

Funny enough, I just found out that liquid metal batteries may not be total fiction.. there's something called a "sodium sulfur" battery that is supposed to be a big thing as far as storing power (the rate at which it dischrages is another matter..) so it's not neccesarily complete magic.