Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I heard they vaporized in a small explosion, not really EXPLODING all over people as bolt rounds do.

And they can only cut through power armor if they strike a vulnerable spot.

Elector wrote:I heard they vaporized in a small explosion, not really EXPLODING all over people as bolt rounds do.

And they can only cut through power armor if they strike a vulnerable spot.

Lasguns dont' really explode so much as they often "pop"-- this is from the target being superheated so much that it forms a bit of superheated gas (thus the magical "plasma" term gets thrown around) which then rapidly expands. That's what explosions are, but at the same time, I hesitate to call it a true explosion compared to anything actually intended to deliver an explosive effect.

Lexicanum wrote:Laser weapons emit a highly focused beam of light. The short duration high energy beam produces such a rapid temperature change on the target's surface that it vaporises in a small explosion

But really, you just restated my point.

Yes, but Lexicanum isn't a source, it's a fan-page which occasionally sites its own sources which happen to be legitimate sources.

Mind you, I consider GW or GW licensed sources to be legitimate, unlike Lynata whom believes that almost nothing is a legitimate source.

It's as close as I can get with my resources, and I've found it fairly reliable.

Not to mention the "Official Canon" only disclaimer on the main page.

Melissia wrote:Lasguns dont' really explode so much as they often "pop"-- this is from the target being superheated so much that it forms a bit of superheated gas (thus the magical "plasma" term gets thrown around) which then rapidly expands. That's what explosions are, but at the same time, I hesitate to call it a true explosion compared to anything actually intended to deliver an explosive effect.

Explode: to burst forth with sudden violence or noise from internal energy: as a : to undergo a rapid chemical or nuclear reaction with the production of noise, heat, and violent expansion of gases <dynamite explodes> b : to burst violently as a result of pressure from within

-Merriam Webster Dictionary

What makes you think lasguns aren't intended to deliver an explosive effect?

I believe I read somewhere (Old guard codex?) that only some of the more rare patterns of the lasgun has power settings at all, just to note.

"It fires an explosive energy blast with a similar effect to a bullet or a small shell."
- 40k Wargear book, Lasgun entry

Melissia wrote:Mind you, I consider GW or GW licensed sources to be legitimate, unlike Lynata whom believes that almost nothing is a legitimate source.

My opinion is pretty straight forward. I consider anything coming directly from the studio to be the "word of law", valid until retconned by a source of similar origin, whereas licensed material is nothing more than the personal interpretation of various freelancing authors who are, as we know from various blog posts by the authors themselves, not at all required to stick to details written down elsewhere.

I don't tend to change this opinion every other week depending on what I'm argueing for ... unlike you.

Personally, I'm just gonna put these cityblock-leveling lasguns into the same tray as backflipping Terminators, boltgun-wielding PDF, squads of Multilaser-wielding Marines, flirty Sisters of Battle, Inquisitors with "civilian" plasma guns, Coward-Commissars, "Navigator-Servitors" and regiments of Imperial Guard Predator tanks. If you prefer to incorporate that sort of stuff into your personal interpretation of the setting, that's your choice, but for me it would feel a tad too strange.

Addendum:

Elector wrote:

Lexicanum wrote:Laser weapons emit a highly focused beam of light. The short duration high energy beam produces such a rapid temperature change on the target's surface that it vaporises in a small explosion

This is also correct, the source for this is the 3E rulebook where a couple weapons (bolters, lasguns, plasma guns) are explained. Seems like a slightly more realistic/scientific explanation to the effect as described in the Wargear book.

BrainDeleted wrote:I believe I read somewhere (Old guard codex?) that only some of the more rare patterns of the lasgun has power settings at all, just to note.

GW's own Inquisitor RPG offers three lasguns, one of which has a variable power setting. It doesn't seem to be any more rare, but obviously this will depend on who asks where and why. We recently discussed this topic in my DH group and my GM had a reasonable explanation, stating that some/many regiments may prefer lasguns locked to a particular power setting to conserve ammunition, else you may end up with rookies shooting on full power by default as they only want to survive the next couple minutes whereas the officers are planning for hours. More elite or better drilled regiments may leave this choice to the individual trooper or the leader of his squad/platoon.

Lynata wrote:I don't tend to change this opinion every other week depending on what I'm argueing for

You keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true.

What the hell man? Some post from over 3 years ago? Though it's hard for her to admit it Melissia's opinions on various things may have changed over the years. Yes, she can actually be convinced of things!

Besides, how exactly does that contradict anything I've said anyway?

The black library books are still canon. They aren't as strict in their adherence, but they're canon. Unlike Lynata, I don't use a "yes/no" system of canon, but rather a ranking system. *shrug*

Melissia wrote:

Lynata wrote:I don't tend to change this opinion every other week depending on what I'm argueing for

You keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true.

If you want to make accusations, why not back them up with one of my posts, like I did with yours? The last time my opinion on canon changed was about one or two years ago following a lengthy debate on the FFG forums. As stated in a somewhat longer post I made some time ago here, I too once believed that anything bearing the official stamp of the 40k franchise would be canon, but I have since come to "see the errors of my ways". I'm starting to fear that nothing at all (i.e. not even GW) may be "canon" in that it should be treated as solid common ground for discussions such as this one, but for now I will cling to the studio books until further comments/statements from the people who are involved with it. Gav Thorpe and George Mann draw a firm line between studio books and BL, and so do I.

If you think my propagated opinion is so fluid, then I dare you to find one of my posts and prove your point. Otherwise, I would kindly request you cut those aggrieved potshots so that this thread can get back on track.

Sheesh, to think that I once registered here because of you.

Lynata wrote:If you want to make accusations, why not back them up with one of my posts

Because I don't care enough. Shall we get back on topic and stop trying to claim that a post I made on a different forum three years ago which doesn't actually contradict anything I've said somehow proves anything?

Personally I'd rather talk about the awesomeness that is Lasguns, myself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Elector wrote:Not to mention the "Official Canon" only disclaimer on the main page.

It still has remnants of before it adopted that policy though, is the main problem.

Lexicanum is pretty vast after all.

If you don't care enough, why try chipping at my reputation on the first place? It's not like I called you out first.

Anyhow, if you really do use a "ranking system", the matter seems to be clear, for as quoted GW's own material does provide information contradictory to this supposed 2 meter penetration beam.

Taking this to PMs...

^Appreciated, no need to make it all public.

But I dunno, I can see why some of Lexicanum would be less-trustworthy, but I've found it generally reliable beyond the more obscure factoids from way back when.

But when it comes to weapons (regarding an earlier comment) in 40k, explosions can be drastically different. Exploding on impact for a lasgun is different than the explosion of a bolt round on impact. One will rip you apart, the other will vaporize a small area around the impact point. While deadly to a regular human, not enough damage to rip through concrete.

It will cause a small pockmark (similar to modern bullets), but not any major damage. But that's my opinion.

That's what I meant. Heck even the explosion from a bolter shell is relatively small compared to that of a frag grenade.

I think a lasgun isn't much more powerful than an AK-47.
Look, bullets do weird things too. They can punch clean through people, cause body parts to explode and ricochet. Gaunts Ghosts just showed me that lasbolts can do all kinds of crazy things like bullets do too. Sometimes they explode on contact, punch through people and even ricochet too.
When you think about it a laserbeam is more suceptable to environmental conditions like brightness, moisture and even temperatue and shinyness of victim than bullets. So it makes sense that they would have a wide variety of effects on target.

Mirror Vs IG. Either guard shoots itself to death in the mirror, or they break it and have bad luck.

Somewhere in one of the books the effects of a lasgun was calculated as app 14MJ of energy per shot.

The equivalent to 3kg of TNT.

Please don't shoot the messenger!

Cheers

Andrew

Lasguns are infredily affected by the surrounding environment, read a book where Vostroyans are fighting orks on a extreme cold planet, trot range was cut by half or so.

That seems a bit much, but that doesn't mean all that power is on impact, most of it could just be to get the beam from the gun to the target.

Lasguns can't pen for crap in either TT or fluff.

Not sure where that started...

2-3 foot of concrete would require a lasgun to jack hammer it in order to pen. Considering that's pretty much how they get through every other type of armor/hide in battles with their trusty rusty lasguns.

The whole "Lasgun explosion" argument, as I recall, started when someone, no clue who, claimed that Lasguns made the target surface so hot that it actually made a few atoms unite, producing a miniscule(big enough to kill a Marine sometimes) fusion explosion.

The BRB itself states that lasbolts superheat the impact location and cause a minor explosion. That doesn't mean that's what happens 100% of the time.

What we do not have is a verified example of the thread topic. Where does it say a lasbolt can penetrate 2 metres of concrete? Going to need a page number on that one.

I think it was one of the gaunt's ghosts novels, but I was mostly in here arguing against some of the silliness of those arguing against it rather than actually arguing for the penetrating of concrete, as I'm not entirely sure where that quote came from.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The BRB itself states that lasbolts superheat the impact location and cause a minor explosion. That doesn't mean that's what happens 100% of the time.

What we do not have is a verified example of the thread topic. Where does it say a lasbolt can penetrate 2 metres of concrete? Going to need a page number on that one.

In one of the 'Last Chancers' novels, Kage got hit in the head by a lasgun shot and it failed to get the whole way through his helmet. So it seems unlikely it'd get through concrete.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I think a lasgun isn't much more powerful than an AK-47.

What?
Dude in all do respect....
Lasgun tear off limbs with it's mini plasma explosion.
AK-47 just make small whole in you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Your Friend Doctor Robert wrote:The whole "Lasgun explosion" argument, as I recall, started when someone, no clue who, claimed that Lasguns made the target surface so hot that it actually made a few atoms unite, producing a miniscule(big enough to kill a Marine sometimes) fusion explosion.

"The lasgun uses the same basic technology and operates along the same lines as other las weapons, emitting a beam of focused light. The high amount of energy in the beam causes the immediate surface area of a target to be vaporized in a small explosion"

Warhammer 40,000 3rd Edition Rulebook, page 61


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
What we do not have is a verified example of the thread topic. Where does it say a lasbolt can penetrate 2 metres of concrete? Going to need a page number on that one.

QFT, I think that max. that Lasgun can penetrate trough solid concrete would be up to 1m max ( heck, today's AP ammo can go trough 20 - 50cm of solid concrete. Lasgun is even more powerful than that ). But 2 - 3m is a little to much, I think that only Lascannon can go trough this - and even that is a question.

Durza wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:The BRB itself states that lasbolts superheat the impact location and cause a minor explosion. That doesn't mean that's what happens 100% of the time.

What we do not have is a verified example of the thread topic. Where does it say a lasbolt can penetrate 2 metres of concrete? Going to need a page number on that one.

In one of the 'Last Chancers' novels, Kage got hit in the head by a lasgun shot and it failed to get the whole way through his helmet. So it seems unlikely it'd get through concrete.

The helmet is specifically designed to resist the lasgun shot.

Different materials resist different effects differently [/captain obvious].

And concrete is designed to resist heat damage. Which lasguns seem to cause.

Durza wrote:And concrete is designed to resist heat damage. Which lasguns seem to cause.

Only if it's specifically formulated and cured for the purpose.

Above 300 degrees C, concrete begins to take an extremely high amount of stress and starts to risk tearing itself apart due to the differing chemical properties of the materials in the mixture. It's really only considered safe to expose most types of concrete to ~100 degrees C. Indeed, because of how easily it absorbs heat, many kinds of concrete are damaged through a simple fire or even the normal level of solar radiation day after day.

From wikipedia: "If concrete is exposed to very high temperatures very rapidly, explosive spalling of the concrete can result. In a very hot, very quick fire the water inside the concrete will boil before it evaporates. The steam inside the concrete exerts expansive pressure and can initiate and forcibly expel a spall."

Lasguns produce a very high temperature very rapidly.

I'd say no.
Concrete is heat resistant, even if you take a blowtorch to it (awfully hot, melts steel) it doesn't do anything to the concrete and you have to hold it there for some time before it starts to crack due to thermodynamic stress and that is "just" normal concrete.

I imagine military grade 40k concrete is even tougher but the point is it doesn't matter when it comes to energy weapons since different materials can vary extremely when it comes to heat absorption.
Take ceramics for example, a small caliber round would shatter it whereas you could fire lasers all day at it and nothing would happen.