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2012/03/30 01:42:59
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2012/03/30 02:20:31
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
Um, it's not; if I spend sixty bucks for a pre order, and you spend sixty bucks for a pre order, and your pre order is better than mine, it's not based on money spent because we both spent the same (Sixty bucks).
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2012/03/30 02:30:23
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
Trolls who accuse others of trolling because they have no counterargument? Nice.
Defending Gamestop is really the scummiest form of stockholm syndrome.
Slarg232 wrote:Um, it's not; if I spend sixty bucks for a pre order, and you spend sixty bucks for a pre order, and your pre order is better than mine, it's not based on money spent because we both spent the same (Sixty bucks).
dogma wrote:It isn't based on money spent, its based on where you shop.
There are competitive advantages given away based on money spent, but they aren't tied to retailers, they're tied to producers.
It's not based on the location the money is spent, but it's based on where and when your money is spent.
If you ignore the silly technicalities that you're all so hung up on, if Gamestop has an exclusive preorder bonus that makes my weapons better/different/etc, it's an unfair advantage. It cheapens the multiplayer experience and creates an uneven playing field.
2012/03/30 02:42:42
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
Slarg232 wrote:I agree that it is based upon where you shop, to say that is it based on how much money you spend is blatantly false.
Yes, yes, yes. Your blatant misinterpretation of other peoples' arguments happens to be blatantly false. Let's move on.
Ok, spell it out to me slowly and painfully; how is me spending $60 bucks for no extra content, while you spend $60 for the same game with additional content PAYING extra for an advantage?
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2012/03/30 02:59:34
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
Trolls who accuse others of trolling because they have no counterargument? Nice.
Isn't that what you're doing here:
Defending Gamestop is really the scummiest form of stockholm syndrome.
Also, this is no defense of GameSpot. It's a clarification that GameStop's interests are more in line with the consumer's compared to the publishers. Kanluwen wasn't able to show how any of the practices he mentioned were bad for the consumer.
Melissia doesn't have an argument. She posted a totally inapplicable statement and followed it with a smarmy bit of trolling.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Absolutionis wrote:If you ignore the silly technicalities that you're all so hung up on, if Gamestop has an exclusive preorder bonus that makes my weapons better/different/etc, it's an unfair advantage. It cheapens the multiplayer experience and creates an uneven playing field.
The only possible way that it's an unfair advantage is if every single purchaser of the game in question is not able to obtain the bonus content. And I grant that it might be the case that folks in some countries can't do. But it's still not paying for an advantage, except inasmuch as dogma mentioned: GameStop is "paying" (and even this is probably figurative) to pass on a free advantage to every person who cares to be their customer and can be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/30 03:05:44
How is the idea that "One can buy from a vendor to gain an in-game advantage on day one" good for the consumer?
If Game Stop didn't allow trade-ins for store credit(which is usually their way of saying "We'll give you more value if you trade it in and then we'll give you money towards that shiny new title you crave!") to count towards new games, etc--you might have a point that it's "just a choice of smart shopping".
But that's not the case. Game Stop starts running ads on places like Cartoon Network/Adult Swim the week before the game comes out, when most people who are actually excited for a game because of having played its predecessors, or whatever else have preordered from a vendor which is close to them or they had a coupon for or whatever.
They will usually time it to coincide with a "Trade in X games, get Y towards your preorder of Z!" deal as well, usually with "X games" being relatively new titles which they're selling preowned for $49.99 rather than $59.99.
2012/03/30 03:10:18
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
Slarg232 wrote:I agree that it is based upon where you shop, to say that is it based on how much money you spend is blatantly false.
Yes, yes, yes. Your blatant misinterpretation of other peoples' arguments happens to be blatantly false. Let's move on.
Ok, spell it out to me slowly and painfully; how is me spending $60 bucks for no extra content, while you spend $60 for the same game with additional content PAYING extra for an advantage?
You fail to grasp that nobody mentioned anything about paying extra. You fabricated that little bit on your own, misinterpreted Kanluwen's and Melissia's argument against preorder bonuses, and decided to argue against a point that nobody held.
Manchu wrote:
Absolutionis wrote:
Manchu wrote:Wow, trolling. Nice.
Trolls who accuse others of trolling because they have no counterargument? Nice.
Isn't that what you're doing here:
Defending Gamestop is really the scummiest form of stockholm syndrome.
I'm only reiterating your phrase from earlier. "Troll" is not synonymous with someone that simply disagrees with you.
Manchu wrote:Also, this is no defense of GameSpot. It's a clarification that GameStop's interests are more in line with the consumer's compared to the publishers. Kanluwen wasn't able to show how any of the practices he mentioned were bad for the consumer.
Melissia doesn't have an argument. She posted a totally inapplicable statement and followed it with a smarmy bit of trolling.
Providing an unfair advantage based on location and time where your money is spent is not in-line with consumer interests. People that missed the promotion due to time constraints gets utterly screwed. People that cannot buy from Gamestop get utterly screwed.
We end up with a situation where some people have Gamestop-exclusive items and others do not. It is not an even playing field and thus cheapens the entire experience. It becomes un-fun when new players, already at a skill handicap, end up having a mechanical handicap that they can never overcome.
Kanluwen wasnt 'unable' to do anything. You simply don't agree with his point and dismissed it.
Melissia's abrasive comment was simply a retort to your dismissive one-liner.
2012/03/30 03:10:36
Subject: Re:Used Games Market destroying the industry
As I was telling you earlier though, Best Buy does the same thing; trade in games for store credit that can be used for that shiny new game that's coming out. Sure, not to the extent of advertising, but then Best Buy also lets you buy TV's and such with that money.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Absolutionis wrote:
Slarg232 wrote:
Absolutionis wrote:
Slarg232 wrote:I agree that it is based upon where you shop, to say that is it based on how much money you spend is blatantly false.
Yes, yes, yes. Your blatant misinterpretation of other peoples' arguments happens to be blatantly false. Let's move on.
Ok, spell it out to me slowly and painfully; how is me spending $60 bucks for no extra content, while you spend $60 for the same game with additional content PAYING extra for an advantage?
You fail to grasp that nobody mentioned anything about paying extra. You fabricated that little bit on your own, misinterpreted Kanluwen's and Melissia's argument against preorder bonuses, and decided to argue against a point that nobody held.
Melissia wrote:There is a problem here, giving competitive advantage based off of money spent ruins the gameplay.
MANCHU wrote:It's not based on money spent.
mel wrote:Yes, keep telling yourself that.
It's still false.
BOOYA!
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/03/30 03:18:02
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2012/03/30 03:18:04
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
@Absolutionis: Do you consider people who can afford to buy more of substantially similar games and/or afford to play them more often to be "buying" an advantage?
@Kanluwen: Allowing customers to get more trade-in value for a pre-order or new game is bad for customers ... ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/30 03:18:57
Oh you think that people who have money to spend on games during pre-order or at launch have an unfair in-game disadvantage over people because of free bonus content?
I'm not sure where this is going. The point is that no one is paying more for an in-game advantage. GameStop passing on exclusive content for free to its customers is not a "competitive advantage based off of money" in any meaningful sense unless you're also willing to count something like "able to play eight hours a day" as the same kind of advantage.
Manchu wrote:
@Kanluwen: Allowing customers to get more trade-in value for a pre-order or new game is bad for customers ... ?
Since I can tell that this is one of those times where it seems we might be having a communications breakdown, here we go:
Say you play Super Soldier XVII's multiplayer all the time. You've got all the multiplayer achievements, but you haven't once touched the single player. Not because it's bad--but because you only care about the Imaginary Trophy Race that is the stat leaderboards.
You then find out that Super Soldier XVIII comes out--NEXT WEEK! And all your buddies are getting it! So you have to get it too, since they won't be playing Super Soldier XVII with Super Soldier XVIII coming out next week.
Luckily, you find that out because you're watching Family Guy and Game Stop has paid for ad time to show you all those awesome preorder bonuses that they have. Since you played Super Soldier XVII, and obtained it this same very way not two years prior, you know that by going to Game Stop you're going to get some gamebreaking bonuses for Super Soldier XVIII--because that's what happened with Super Soldier XVII!
But wait...
Game Stop is also having--according to the ad--a deal where you can trade in four of the most popular titles at the time(Super Soldier XVII, Fastdriver 4, Ancient Reading Material X: The Darker Stuff Comes Back, and Sillypants II: The Wrecker) and get 50% more trade-in credit. Upon showing up to trade it in, you're then told that the trade-in credit only applies to preorders made THAT DAY...so you have to use it all or you're boned!
So you preorder Super Soldier XVIII without exchanging any money, and preorder Fastdriver 5, and preorder Ancient Reading Material XI: The Even Darker Stuff Shows Up This Time. Super Soldier XVIII is the only one whose entire cost is covered, and you put $5 and $5 towards Fastdriver 5 and Ancient Reading Material XI: The Even Darker Stuff Shows Up This Time.
Game Stop then goes and puts those titles up for sale for prices ranging from $29.99(Sillypants II: The Wrecker) to $39.99 (Ancient Reading Material X: The Darker Stuff Comes Back) and then $49.99 (Fastdriver 4 and Super Soldier XVII).
They effectively have set it up so that they're gaining $179.96 for four games which cost YOU $59.99 from them new.
2012/03/30 03:31:17
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
First of all Kan, those are hilarious game titles and I would likely play the Ancient Reading Materials series, which I am guessing was developed somewhere in Maryland.
Second, you've estbalished that what GameStop does is smart for them. But you haven't established that it harms the guy who traded in the games (after all, he no longer wants them or, if he does want them, he doesn't have to trade them in) or anyone who might want to buy the games he just traded in. If anything, you've shown how all of those consumers win out and explained how GameStop, by relying on consumer self-interest, has made a lot of money.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/30 03:34:30
Manchu wrote:
@Kanluwen: Allowing customers to get more trade-in value for a pre-order or new game is bad for customers ... ?
Since I can tell that this is one of those times where it seems we might be having a communications breakdown, here we go:
Say you play Super Soldier XVII's multiplayer all the time. You've got all the multiplayer achievements, but you haven't once touched the single player. Not because it's bad--but because you only care about the Imaginary Trophy Race that is the stat leaderboards.
You then find out that Super Soldier XVIII comes out--NEXT WEEK! And all your buddies are getting it! So you have to get it too, since they won't be playing Super Soldier XVII with Super Soldier XVIII coming out next week.
Luckily, you find that out because you're watching Family Guy and Game Stop has paid for ad time to show you all those awesome preorder bonuses that they have. Since you played Super Soldier XVII, and obtained it this same very way not two years prior, you know that by going to Game Stop you're going to get some gamebreaking bonuses for Super Soldier XVIII--because that's what happened with Super Soldier XVII!
But wait...
Game Stop is also having--according to the ad--a deal where you can trade in four of the most popular titles at the time(Super Soldier XVII, Fastdriver 4, Ancient Reading Material X: The Darker Stuff Comes Back, and Sillypants II: The Wrecker) and get 50% more trade-in credit. Upon showing up to trade it in, you're then told that the trade-in credit only applies to preorders made THAT DAY...so you have to use it all or you're boned!
So you preorder Super Soldier XVIII without exchanging any money, and preorder Fastdriver 5, and preorder Ancient Reading Material XI: The Even Darker Stuff Shows Up This Time. Super Soldier XVIII is the only one whose entire cost is covered, and you put $5 and $5 towards Fastdriver 5 and Ancient Reading Material XI: The Even Darker Stuff Shows Up This Time.
Game Stop then goes and puts those titles up for sale for prices ranging from $29.99(Sillypants II: The Wrecker) to $39.99 (Ancient Reading Material X: The Darker Stuff Comes Back) and then $49.99 (Fastdriver 4 and Super Soldier XVII).
They effectively have set it up so that they're gaining $179.96 for four games which cost YOU $59.99 from them new.
Who in the world is going to buy the older version when the new one is coming out next week?
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2012/03/30 03:35:10
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
In the immediate weeks preceding and following release, people who didn't play the last game will buy it (if they have the money) to catch up on the story line or to start getting used to the game mechanics. Its not like its a large number of people, but it allows GS to stock up on a item people may have renewed interest in and to encourage the purchase of the new product.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/30 03:36:04
Slarg, that would be me. I sometimes don't get on board for game 1 until after seeing that it was successful enough to lead to a media frenzy over game 2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For example, I am strongly thinking about getting RE5 and RER sometime before November.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/30 03:36:09
LordofHats wrote:In the immediate weeks preceding and following release, people who didn't play the last game will buy it (if they have the money) to catch up on the story line or to start getting used to the game mechanics.
True on the game mechanics bit, but if they are that interested in the story that they want to know what happened in the previous one, and they are cheap enough to buy used, they are probably smart enough to google the cutscenes.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote:Slarg, that would be me. I sometimes don't get on board for game 1 until after seeing that it was successful enough to lead to a media frenzy over game 2.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For example, I am strongly thinking about getting RE5 and RER sometime before November.
But not RE: ORC?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/30 03:37:24
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2012/03/30 03:37:41
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
Oddly I seem to be one of the only people who will actually watch an entire "Lets Play" series to catch up on something. It takes the same amount of time and is absolutely free XD
Heard it's awful. Watched LPs on YT which seemed to confirm this.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote:Oddly I seem to be one of the only people who will actually watch an entire "Lets Play" series to catch up on something. It takes the same amount of time and is absolutely free XD
fething brilliant. And I already watch LPs! As reviews mostly ...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/03/30 03:39:11
LordofHats wrote:Oddly I seem to be one of the only people who will actually watch an entire "Lets Play" series to catch up on something. It takes the same amount of time and is absolutely free XD
Meh, I did that with the Original Splatterhouses. Yeah, 2010 had them all in one package, but I just wasn't into the ball breaking difficulty when I just wanted to know what happened.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2012/03/30 03:41:34
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
Although this is another instance in which DLC feths everything up. If I don't sit through an LP of ME2 with all the DLC, I'd think it was gak. And I mean that. I played ME2 at launch on 360 and hated it but bought the PS3 version one year later after listening to folks talk it up here on Dakka (yes, I do change my mind about things when people on a forum make good points) and with all the DLC in place I thought it was much, much better.
Heard it's awful. Watched LPs on YT which seemed to confirm this.
It's not too bad if you have people to play with, though it would be better with more maps. Naturally, these are already on their way but you have to pay for them.
They do quite a few things right, like the Quick Draw system that lets you immediately pull out your pistol and fire it with the Left Stick while holding LB/L1, and the character classes are varied and fun. All of them have their uses, if it's not readily apparant.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2012/03/30 03:42:20
Subject: Used Games Market destroying the industry
Manchu wrote:First of all Kan, those are hilarious game titles and I would likely play the Ancient Reading Materials series, which I am guessing was developed somewhere in Maryland.
Yes. Chevy Chase, of course!
Second, you've established that what GameStop does is smart for them. But you haven't established that it harms the guy who wants traded in the games (after all, he no longer wants them or, if he does want them, he doesn't have to trade them in) or anyone who might want to buy the games he just traded in. If anything, you've shown how all of those consumers win out and explained how GameStop, by relying on consumer self-interest, has made a lot of money.
Here's how it harms the guy who wants to trade in the games:
He's not doing it because he wants to. He's trading it in to play keep up because developers are trying to screw over Game Stop's profiteering and releasing the same game with one or two new features(Maybe this time it's dual wielding shotguns!) after they've just released the last piece of DLC. People who genuinely preferred playing Super Soldier XVII to Super Soldier XVIII are going to be stuck with long search times between matches--until the servers are finally just shut down, so if they want to play with their buddies they have to buy Super Soldier XVIII and if they don't do it by preordering at Game Stop, they're at a disadvantage from day one in multiplayer.
In the end the gamer has lost out $60(the price of a whole game!) simply by comparing the prices of the game new to Game Stop's resale prices. That's not counting the fact that even getting 50% more trade-in credit...the gamer only got $70 to put towards the games the gamer "wanted"(read: was forced to preorder because the trade-in credit decays). The gamer has paid off one game, but the gamer will have to put in $109.98 to finish paying off the other two(not counting sales tax of course).
It's not a "blindingly obvious" thing, but it's something I've had time to think about watching the trends on my friends list for Xbox Live. My younger brother is one of the people who salivates for Game Stop preorders because he knows he'll get to "pwn noobs" on day one with them.
