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Mitt Romney requested "several" years of tax returns from his potential running mates, a senior adviser to the candidate said Saturday, suggesting that those considered for the ticket may have been required to reveal more financial documents that the candidate himself
It seems to be that Romney is treating his tax returns very badly.
Its pretty obvious that he has something to hide. IMHO he should just stand up and say 'of course I did not pay as much in taxes, I used the system. We should overhaul it'. By trying to avoid the question, he's putting doubt in voters minds.
On a cartoonish level, I kinda appreciate what is looking to be a "human shield" strategy on the matter. It's just gonna look worse when Ryan releases a decade if tax returns and Romney still doesn't.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/12 15:42:41
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
I think ya'll are underestimating what this does forindependents.
Republicans will vote for Romney.
Dems wont.
It's all about the indies.
In the past, Ryan had great favorables with the indies.... but, how the feth does the Seniors like him so much? (can't wrap my head around that).
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Melissia wrote:Well, all of those statements are true. I wish they went more in to why vouchers hurt the elderly, but for a commercial they're pressed for time...
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Wait, this image of Ryan reminds me of a meme... damn if I can remember which one though.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/08/12 15:53:21
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
"By picking Paul Ryan, Romney has decisively broken from Obama’s policy path. The selection of Ryan means Romney is no longer running as Obama-lite. He’s bet that the guys in no-man’s-land don’t want Government Cheese. They want a real job. They want a real future. They want to be citizens of the greatest country on earth again."
As James Carville coined: "It's the economy stupid!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/12 16:28:44
They want to be citizens of the greatest country on earth again.
For certain values of "greatest country on Earth" that exclude having a black guy as President, and include the rich paying as little in taxes as possible.
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1. “Romney has no ideas.” Actually, he and Ryan have the new policy ideas. Tons of them. If you doubt it, wait for the vice-presidential debate.
2. “Romney is excessively cautious.” Tim Pawlenty would have been the cautious pick. Ryan is young and vibrant and stands ready to battle for conservative ideas.
3. “The media are really important.” If Romney thought the mainstream media were critical, he’d duck the Mediscare fight. The pick is one that reflects confidence in the conservative agenda.
4. “Romney and the right are at war.” Sure, conservative activists and Romney have their issues, but if they can bond over Ryan you see how small the differences actually are.
5. “Romney’s campaign can’t execute.” They really did keep this a secret until late Friday night. Kudos to Romney, Beth Myers and those in the know who didn’t spill the beans.
6. “It is dumb to lead on entitlement reform.” By showing political courage Ryan won over his party, advanced his own career and may wind up a heartbeat away from the presidency. If his plans are passed and implemented, he’ll be a historic figure.
7. “Romney doesn’t believe in anything.” In choosing Ryan over less ideological figures Romney showed that he in fact cares about ideas, is determined to fix our fiscal problems and is devoted to free markets. Ryan in that sense validates Romney’s core beliefs.
8. “Pawlenty would be rewarded for being a devoted surrogate.” I’m certain his efforts were appreciated, but in the end cream rises to the top, and Pawlenty proved in the presidential primary to be a mediocre pol. He’ll make a great Cabinet member, however.
9. “There was no need for Obama to switch vice presidents.” I have three words for that: Vice Presidential Debate. Joe Biden will need smelling salts.
10. “Republicans are scary.” Romney-Ryan is one of the more suburban-friendly, nice-guy tickets to come along in ages. Ryan will be demonized in the media, but his aw-shucks demeanor and braininess will win over some swing voters.
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Mannahnin wrote:
They want to be citizens of the greatest country on earth again.
For certain values of "greatest country on Earth" that exclude having a black guy as President, and include the rich paying as little in taxes as possible.
What? Who says this?
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For once, we have someone who will be competent to be President of the Senate. What does this have to do with Ryan and the VP pick? That is because the VP is also the President of the Senate. So main job of the VP isn’t to be a “heartbeat away from the Presidency,” but to lead the Senate. The office of the President of the Senate has been largely maligned through US history, and its duties have been largely cooped by the Senate Majority Leader. So the question is, would Paul Ryan be the man that will insist in taking leadership in the Senate or will he, like every VPs before him, just sit back in the shadows so as to not rock the boat?
Um... isn't the only thing that Prez of Senate does is to break any ties? Or, is there something more here? As in, could the VP set the agenda? (*doing research now*)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/12 16:44:46
I'm actually looking forward to a Ryan/Biden debate. I've a feeling they be civil towards each other
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Ouze wrote:Or a reliable pollster, for that matter.
You want more reliable then the most accurate pollster for the 2004 and 2008 elections?
CNN is the only other major organization that has done a favorability poll recently and they have Ryan with a large margin of favorable over unfavorable. The only real remarkable thing about these polls is the large number of people who have no opinion. I'll admit I'm one of them, I know very little of the man, not nearly enough to for a favorable or unfavorable opinion of him.
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whembly wrote:
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Ouze wrote:Or a reliable pollster, for that matter.
I thought he's one of the best? Right up there with Gallup?
Rasmussen has a slight reputation of being right wing friendly, so of course he's going to automatically attack them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/12 20:22:48
whembly wrote:They want a real future. They want to be citizens of the greatest country on earth again"
They're moving to Canada? Wha?
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
whembly wrote:They want a real future. They want to be citizens of the greatest country on earth again"
They're moving to Canada? Wha?
You know, this joke is often tossed out there, but its surprisingly hard to pick up and move to Canada.
While I have rarely met any Canadains who did not like and welcome Americans, after having a 6 month contract in Canada, I can tell you that getting up there to work and live can be a real bit**. You better have a good skillset and job to go up there -- and don't lose them or you will be exported faster than Viagra from Ireland.
Simply put, you just can't pick up and move to Canada because you dislike US politics one way or the other. Your odds are much better moving to Mexico.
Edit : I know you were not saying "then move to Canada, or I would move to Canada." I'm just tossing it out there as a point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/12 20:39:21
Rasmussen showed Barack Obama’s disapproval rating at 36 percent, for instance, just a week after his inauguration, at a point when no other pollster had that figure higher than 20 percent.
Heh... tha'ts... almost cute.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
djones520 wrote:
You want more reliable then the most accurate pollster for the 2004 and 2008 elections?
Rasmussen is well known in the political science community for its tendency to post divergent results early in any election cycle, and subsequently close the gap with other polls in order to maintain its reputation.
But by all means, please continue, it makes my job easier when the electorate doesn't understand numbers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/13 00:05:13
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
How can they sit there with a straight face and say that a person who went to Washington straight out of college is a "reluctand Washington outsider"...
Chowderhead wrote:So, from what I can tell, this guy's a male Palin?
He's a hard line conservative (of the 'tiny government no matter the cost variety', as opposed to the 'crazy religious/family values nuttiness of Palin), and he's been drafted as VP to boost support among the fringe of conservatives for a relatively middle of the road presidential candidate, but that's where the similarities stop.
Palin was utterly vacuous, and had absolutely nothing to say of any value at the Federal level. On the other hand Ryan is at the centre of Republican debate right now. He's smart enough to belong in the big leagues, which makes him very different to Palin.
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Melissia wrote:Selecting Paul Ryan opens up a huge amount of attacks on Romney now, involving Paul Ryan's disgusting budget plan.
Sort of. I mean Palin was about as unqualified as a person could be, and yet the attacks on her didn't really move the polls all that much. It was only really her grossly unprofessional behaviour behind the scenes that really hurt the campaign.
It's always a bit of a stretch to claim a presidential option is bad because of the guy who would get the job if the main man died.
The ground both sides have to make about this isn't in Ryan himself, but what his selection shows about Romney, because the voter impression of Romney is still very vague. Democrats could improve enthusiasm in their base by using the selection of Ryan to show the kind of pro-business, anti-small guy government Romney will run. Funnily enough I think the Republicans will use this selection to prove the same things...
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whembly wrote:Agreed... Rubio would've been better for Romney. I guess that the Romney campaign felt they needed help from the indie/tea partiers (Ryan is a Tea Party rock star).
What? Rubio is the Tea Party darling. To the extent the Tea Party has a leader its Rubio.
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Melissia wrote:Oh, an fox news doesn't count as news.
It also isn't a fox.
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ShumaGorath wrote:I don't think this was a wrong move. Romneys adoption of a middle road candidate might have grabbed him a portion of the undecideds, but what he needs right now is to not be the "last resort" candidate for the republican party. When the majority of republican voters will vote for him because they "have to" rather than because he inspires the cause it can cause a low turnout. He's probably hedged the bet that increasing loyalist turnout via a hardcore VP pick would net him more votes than playing to moderacy and trying to capture more of the vanishing center.
Unfortunately Paul Ryan is really easy to attack since his plan is horse gak and no one not on a conservative payroll that knows anything about simple mathematics thinks it's anything other than the teaparties wishlist of ideological cuts.
That sums up the whole thing rather well.
The only point I'd add is that while attacking Ryan over his budget might be easy, it's also unlikely to be make much difference. I mean, attacks on Palin made little real difference because ultimately she isn't the President, so attacks on Ryan's budget are unlikely to matter much more.
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feeder wrote:How does he listen to RATM? Does he not pay attention to the lyrics?
Republicans also spend a lot of time talking about how much they like Bruce Springsteen, while ignoring everything his music is about. It's kind of weird.
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DAaddict wrote:Romney has no plan... You mean like "Hope and Change?"
It's more that Romney has opted not to release any meaningful details about his plans, because he figures general disatisfaction with the economy will be enough to get him over the line. Which is fair enough, Obama did much the same in 2008 and it worked (if anything Obama probably talked a little too much, and gave the Republican press wing stuff that could attack).
But it now seems the Romney campaign is changing that up a little, by going for a candidate with a little more substance behind him. It tells you something about where the Romney campaign feels they are at that they'd pick a guy like Ryan, offering a little more substance but also opening themselves up to attack. It tells you Romney feels without changing things up he is unlikely to capture the votes needed in key states to really threaten in this election.
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d-usa wrote:Crap like that makes me very glad that my church (even though it is officially Southern Baptist) has an awesome track record of staying completely out of politics.
I've said for a while now involving religion in politics is bad, in part because it corrupts the political process slightly more than it was before, but mostly because it corrupts the religious body utterly.
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whembly wrote:I think ya'll are underestimating what this does forindependents.
Republicans will vote for Romney.
Dems wont.
It's all about the indies.
In the past, Ryan had great favorables with the indies.... but, how the feth does the Seniors like him so much? (can't wrap my head around that).
It really, really isn't about the independants. Their numbers are assumed to be far greater than they are, and they hardly turn up to vote anyway. I mean think about it, if you're disaffected enough to be unsure which of these guys is the better choice right now, are you really going to make the effort to vote?
What it is all about is convincing your own side to get out on election day and vote. Either because they're actually enthusiastic about your candidate, or because they're terrified of the other guy.
Picking Ryan is about trying to get Tea Party elements to be enthusiastic about Romney, but the downside is that gives the Obama campaign a little ammunition to make Democrats terrified of Romney.
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2012/08/13 03:55:59
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/08/13 13:25:12
Subject: Re:NBC claims Paul Ryan will be Romney's running mate
sebster wrote: It really, really isn't about the independants. Their numbers are assumed to be far greater than they are, and they hardly turn up to vote anyway. I mean think about it, if you're disaffected enough to be unsure which of these guys is the better choice right now, are you really going to make the effort to vote?
What it is all about is convincing your own side to get out on election day and vote. Either because they're actually enthusiastic about your candidate, or because they're terrified of the other guy.
Picking Ryan is about trying to get Tea Party elements to be enthusiastic about Romney, but the downside is that gives the Obama campaign a little ammunition to make Democrats terrified of Romney.
First, my $0.02 -- I like the pick for Romney because it changes the conversation, which was going nowhere for him the last month or two. The race will take a more ideological tone now, which I think will help motivate the righties in the GOP. Of course, it's hard to say that Romney has been a small government guy through his career, but he's remade himself enough times now that it may not matter anymore.
Looking at an electoral map, Wisconsin is obviously now in play for the GOP, although Romney can probably kiss PA and FL goodbye. Too many retirees there who'll freak about Ryan's desire to mess with Medicare, etc. Not sure if OH is in the same category or not.
Like you said, I think this calcifies the race somewhat, and now we'll probably see a close one with most states going to the usual parties. And I guess that's not the worst strategy by the Romney camp. It was becoming apparent Romney wasn't going to win in a landslide or sway a bunch of purple/blueish states based on the power of his ideas. So you might as well just lock down the usual red states, kiss the usual blue states goodbye, and hope for something to break late in the race or on election day.
I still think Obama's organization (which is shaping up to be fearsome at this point) is going to win out, but I also think the voter ID laws passed in some states will have some impact. Those were absolutely passed to help GOP candidates, and I think they probably will.
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Ouze wrote:
Jihadin wrote:Ryan and Christie 2016 lol
Chris Christie is too fat to get elected. In my opinion, modern Americans are too image conscious to elect an obese president.
He's also kind of a loud-mouthed bully. All you have to do is show some of those videos of him berating his constituents, and he'll lose whole states where things like manners count. In NY, NJ, parts of PA, etc. he can get away with that stuff. Personally, I think he's a clown.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/13 13:29:00
1) Paul Ryan is a joke. His budget proposals never took into account the damage reducing the government would have, laying off hundreds of thousands if not millions of people does hurt the economy.
2) Romney was in a tight spot. T Paw or Portman are boring white guys who give him nothing. Other candidates who are otherwise attractive and young were likely to not want it, Rubio and Jindal especially, since Obama will win in November and being a failed VP candidate is likely to be a death sentence for one's political ambitions in this day and age.
3) Ryan was at least somewhat exciting and helps smooth things over the insane right wing base of the party. It's not an accident that he chose Ryan after his campaign pissed off the Tea Party.
4) Instead of having this election continue to be about the economy and veiled racism ("Believe in America"? "Make America great again"? "Take back our country"?), Romney instead chose to make this election about Medicare and Medicaid, tax cuts for the wealthy, and raising taxes on lower income Americans.
5) Mitt Romney had a disastrous trip abroad and decided to nominate a guy as VP who has no experience with foreign affairs.
6) What should I buy when I win my bet with biccat over the election? I'm thinking about picking up some Ork stuff, but I'm not sure.
