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How do you plan on dealing with fliers? Because while most won't scare this list, a couple of vendettas behind your tank line could really ruin your day...
That.
One valkyrie could beat your whole army.
To be fair, it wouldn't be hard to find some points to drop for hydras, vendettas of your own, or even a quad gun defence line if you were desperate.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
How do you plan on dealing with fliers? Because while most won't scare this list, a couple of vendettas behind your tank line could really ruin your day...
That.
One valkyrie could beat your whole army.
To be fair, it wouldn't be hard to find some points to drop for hydras, vendettas of your own, or even a quad gun defence line if you were desperate.
But, just in theory, I want you to picture one Valkyrie winning a 2000 point game solo. With a naked PCS inside it to grab an objective turn5.
Drink that in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 17:16:09
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
If a person manages to defeat my entire army with a valkyrie, I'm pretty sure I wasn't fit to win in the first place.
That said, watching that IG list fight a Draigowing list would be hilarious to watch.
Draigowing guy:"Aww you brought IG, how cute, lets see you kill 35 paladins".
IG Player:*sets down 6 Demolishers*"If you live to turn 5, this will be an interesting game."
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
That said, watching that IG list fight a Draigowing list would be hilarious to watch.
Draigowing guy:"Aww you brought IG, how cute, lets see you kill 35 paladins".
IG Player:*sets down 6 Demolishers*"If you live to turn two and half, this will be an interesting game."
Fixed that for you
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 18:04:43
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
Homing Beacon: Any friendly unit that deep strike within 12in can reroll the scatter die
Lasgun w/ Auxiliary Grenade Launcher: Replaces the Sgt's laspistol with a lasgun with a 1 shot krak grenade.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/24 21:22:26
Homing Beacon: Any friendly unit that deep strike within 12in can reroll the scatter die
Lasgun w/ Auxiliary Grenade Launcher: Replaces the Sgt's laspistol with a lasgun with a 1 shot krak grenade.
I don't think you can ally two armies with the same codex.
Well there are 10 meltaguns in that list. If I were actually to run that list, I'd find the points somewhere and give the veterans AND the PCSs meltaguns, and have them on the flanks of the armour. That'd give me 18 BS4 melta, 6 BS4. Even at 6-12", that's plenty.
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Homing Beacon: Any friendly unit that deep strike within 12in can reroll the scatter die
Lasgun w/ Auxiliary Grenade Launcher: Replaces the Sgt's laspistol with a lasgun with a 1 shot krak grenade.
I don't think you can ally two armies with the same codex.
He's using the Elysian Drop troopers list. It's been specifically FAQ'd by forgeworld that it ally's just like IG does in response to the typical 6th ed codexes, except that it can also ally with the normal IG codex as battle brothers. His list is 100% legal and awesome.
Testify wrote:Well there are 10 meltaguns in that list. If I were actually to run that list, I'd find the points somewhere and give the veterans AND the PCSs meltaguns, and have them on the flanks of the armour. That'd give me 18 BS4 melta, 6 BS4. Even at 6-12", that's plenty.
You do realize that regardless of BS, they'll be hitting those flyers at BS 1 right? You've probably got weight of fire downpat, but there's no way you'll be able to get all 18 meltas on the same target at once. Although to be fair, you really only need one or 2 solid hits to knock one out of the sky with a meltagun...
I'd still probably just throw in a vendetta or some hydras for AA if I was worried about it. It's not like you're pressed for slots after all
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/24 22:42:07
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
You do realize that regardless of BS, they'll be hitting those flyers at BS 1 right? You've probably got weight of fire downpat, but there's no way you'll be able to get all 18 meltas on the same target at once. Although to be fair, you really only need one or 2 solid hits to knock one out of the sky with a meltagun...
I'd still probably just throw in a vendetta or some hydras for AA if I was worried about it. It's not like you're pressed for slots after all
Right. 6 snap-shotting meltaguns would average a hit. That's a 33% chance to penetrate at AP1, and 50% chance to take a hull point.
Bring it down! would help greatly, but in order to afford a CCS you'd have to get rid of a squad or two. And it'll draw a lot of fire.
Honestly I'd just take an Aegis. I made a mistake earlier, forgetting I was in 6th and therefore an Aegis is compulsary
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
MrMoustaffa wrote: He's using the Elysian Drop troopers list. It's been specifically FAQ'd by forgeworld that it ally's just like IG does in response to the typical 6th ed codexes, except that it can also ally with the normal IG codex as battle brothers. His list is 100% legal and awesome.
You could also use Armoured Battle Group allies, to get a lot of russes into an sub-2k list. Take a Commissar tank to give a 6" ld bubble and a couple of russes as troop choices. You could even give them ace gun skills, or a fourth stormtrooper squad.
Of course, some people probably wouldn't play against a Forge World list. I feel like I'm always going on about ABG when I post here.
Still, it can be a bit of a points squeeze trying to get all of those tanks in.
Don't tempt me. I'm THIS close to buying the book that battlegroup is in so I have proper leman russ formations to go with my infantry.
Why bother with HWS's when I can just bring 8 russes of various flavours
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote: Don't tempt me. I'm THIS close to buying the book that battlegroup is in so I have proper leman russ formations to go with my infantry.
Why bother with HWS's when I can just bring 8 russes of various flavours
Testify wrote: Man that conquerer is insane. A 130 point Leman Russ that can re-roll the scatter dice. There's no way my opponent would let me field that.
Especially not 15 of them.
Oh and those manticore rockets? Yikes.
Conquerors only use the 3" template though, and don't have lumbering behemoth.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Don't tempt me. I'm THIS close to buying the book that battlegroup is in so I have proper leman russ formations to go with my infantry.
Why bother with HWS's when I can just bring 8 russes of various flavours
If I'm going to grind my opponents souls into oblivion under the thundering amazingness of 20 Leman Russes, I would like to at least have the decency of having the book with me.
Aka, if I'm going to kill everything in sight, I'm going to do it right
I've already got the PDF anyways, thanks for posting it though!
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
No problem. However, the list in the book is completely useless and would do you no good. It is in Imperial Armour Volume 1. All of the points costs are wrong, many of the stats have changed, things have changed organisation slot and many other things. There is even an armoury section, and those things have been gone for a while.
In reality, the book would be a waste of money. You can't even buy it without going for a second hand copy. Don't let wanting to own the book stop you trying it out.
Trickstick wrote: No problem. However, the list in the book is completely useless and would do you no good. It is in Imperial Armour Volume 1. All of the points costs are wrong, many of the stats have changed, things have changed organisation slot and many other things. There is even an armoury section, and those things have been gone for a while.
In reality, the book would be a waste of money. You can't even buy it without going for a second hand copy. Don't let wanting to own the book stop you trying it out.
So you actually have to use the PDF if you want to use them... Which means I can use it right now...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/25 01:36:24
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Now, to get enough tanks without completely destroying my troop section.
I'm tempted to take a Commissar exterminator with LC/HBs and the ace gunner skill. 205pts is more than I would usually pay for a russ, but it is only 20 points more than the same tank load out from the IG list. It would also give things like HWTs a ld boost.
A couple of basic russes for troops and manticores/hydras for the standard IG slots could work nicely.
Now, to get enough tanks without completely destroying my troop section.
I'm tempted to take a Commissar exterminator with LC/HBs and the ace gunner skill. 205pts is more than I would usually pay for a russ, but it is only 20 points more than the same tank load out from the IG list. It would also give things like HWTs a ld boost.
A couple of basic russes for troops and manticores/hydras for the standard IG slots could work nicely.
It's a BS 4, twin linked psyfleman dread with AV 14/13/10, that gives LD 10 to all units within 6" of it, and it's got a FREAKING COMMISSAR COMMANDING IT, AND IT CAN TAKE AN EXTRA LASCANNON (That's S10 against vehicles) AND OTHER WEAPONS.
HECK YES IT IS WORTH THE EXTRA POINTS!
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Trickstick wrote: It's like taking Pask, but Better in almost every way. It doesn't get the bonus against MCs though.
fix'd that for you
In all seriousness though, an armored battlegroup would be an excellent choice for a guard army wanting to be more agressive and push the field. Since platoons can take all the infantry you'll ever need in 2 slots, I'd almost rather take the vanilla IG as the ally, so I could take full advantage of the slots the armoured batlegroup offers, and i'd still be able to spam a ton of infantry and stormtroopers.
I'll ask my store if they're ok with me trying it. I don't think they'll mind, but it doesn't hurt to ask. At the very least. it's not another leafblower they have to face. I'm going to write up a potential 1,850 here in a sec and see if I can find a good way to run it.
EDIT: My god their chimeras can take autocannon turrets... It's so beautiful...
Alright so now that I'm done drooling over the Armored Battlegroup faq, I think I've got a rough idea of what I would want to run. As far as I can tell, it covers pretty much everything. Critique and criticism is welcome though!
Spoiler:
1,850 Armored Battlegroup with Vanilla IG allies (ITS ALL IG SO IT"S COOL OK?!?!?)
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/08/25 02:44:00
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Trickstick wrote: No problem. However, the list in the book is completely useless and would do you no good. It is in Imperial Armour Volume 1. All of the points costs are wrong, many of the stats have changed, things have changed organisation slot and many other things. There is even an armoury section, and those things have been gone for a while.
In reality, the book would be a waste of money. You can't even buy it without going for a second hand copy. Don't let wanting to own the book stop you trying it out.
So you actually have to use the PDF if you want to use them... Which means I can use it right now...
Trickstick just murdered Moustaffa's wallet.
I see several Leman Russ purchases in his future.
Maybe a few Baneblades proxied as Vanquishers, just because you can.
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
Trickstick wrote: No problem. However, the list in the book is completely useless and would do you no good. It is in Imperial Armour Volume 1. All of the points costs are wrong, many of the stats have changed, things have changed organisation slot and many other things. There is even an armoury section, and those things have been gone for a while.
In reality, the book would be a waste of money. You can't even buy it without going for a second hand copy. Don't let wanting to own the book stop you trying it out.
So you actually have to use the PDF if you want to use them... Which means I can use it right now...
Trickstick just murdered Moustaffa's wallet.
I see several Leman Russ purchases in his future.
Maybe a few Baneblades proxied as Vanquishers, just because you can.
May as well just driven a stake through it's heart and spit on it's body. I'm already sweating college loans. Then somebody comes along and says "hey, you can make an army of almost nothing but tanks!" How does any IG player resist that? That's like taking a crack addict and waving a 5 pound bag of the stuff in his face.
Luckily, this main idea I'm trying only needs 5 tanks, and I don't see myself using more than 8 even in high points games for now, so I think I'll be ok. I just got 4 unassembled ones on ebay for dirt cheap the other day, so in the mean time I'll be ok. I think I've got six total at the moment, which should be plenty. Still need to buy a couple demolisher kits though...
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
Yes, my plan worked! I'm actually a secret GW marketing executive. Sales must be increased, even on my day off. My next task will be to screw up the entire game's balance by making ratlings do precision shots on both a 5 and 6, so everyone must buy them!
I'll have to write up a list, as I'm supposed to be starting regular games again next week. I'm thinking about using ABG just to fit the "mini-Pask" and an extra russ into my list. A small problem with using ABG as your primary would be the question of what would be your warlord, as there are no HQs with ld values. I assume the updated army list will sort this out, but who knows when that will be released.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/25 09:39:27
Trickstick wrote: No problem. However, the list in the book is completely useless and would do you no good. It is in Imperial Armour Volume 1. All of the points costs are wrong, many of the stats have changed, things have changed organisation slot and many other things. There is even an armoury section, and those things have been gone for a while.
In reality, the book would be a waste of money. You can't even buy it without going for a second hand copy. Don't let wanting to own the book stop you trying it out.
So you actually have to use the PDF if you want to use them... Which means I can use it right now...
Trickstick just murdered Moustaffa's wallet.
I see several Leman Russ purchases in his future.
Maybe a few Baneblades proxied as Vanquishers, just because you can.
May as well just driven a stake through it's heart and spit on it's body. I'm already sweating college loans. Then somebody comes along and says "hey, you can make an army of almost nothing but tanks!" How does any IG player resist that? That's like taking a crack addict and waving a 5 pound bag of the stuff in his face.
Luckily, this main idea I'm trying only needs 5 tanks, and I don't see myself using more than 8 even in high points games for now, so I think I'll be ok. I just got 4 unassembled ones on ebay for dirt cheap the other day, so in the mean time I'll be ok. I think I've got six total at the moment, which should be plenty. Still need to buy a couple demolisher kits though...
You know you want a full, fluffy armoured company. Or regiment. Yeah. Regiment. Like 200 tanks. (And if that's fluff-innaccurate, withhold your riposte, I'm a horrible, mean TFG and I don't read a wink of fluff.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/25 15:55:23
Dakka member since 2012/01/09 16:44:06
Rick's Cards&Games 1000pt Tourney: 2nd Legion's Winter Showdown 1850: 2nd Place Snake Eyes 1000pt Mixed Doubles: 3rd Place
Elysian 105th Skylance W:37-L:3-D:6 in 6th Edition
OK time to get this thread back on topic. I know some people were interested in trying Hellhounds, and I tried some today and decided to see how they worked in a foot IG list. I probably could've written a better list, but I was running late and just threw them into another list I had laying around. I ended up gutting my HWS's and my stormtroopers, which are two of my mainstay units, so the hellhound had some big shoes to fill.
I ran 3 with multimeltas in an 1850 list, and all I can say is holy crap is that overkill against necrons. Delicious, delicious overkill. They also did exactly what I wanted them to do, move up, tie up the enemy, kill key targets, and provide an agressive counterattack to eat up the enemy's shooting. And that was with me playing them wrong for the first half of the game (I thought they could only move 6" and fire template and snap fire the multi melta. Turns out you can move 12" and fire both at normal BS. They got MUCH better after that) As a heads up, I do not know much about necrons, but I eeked out a pretty solid win on Big guns never tire, holding 2 objectives to his one. Had the game gone on another turn, I could've cleared off his surviving warriors and claimed a 3rd objective for a more solid win, but that's dice for you. Here's what the Hellhounds accomplished:
Hellhound Number 1: Moved up, harrassed some immortals with a lord (it was his warlord, T5. That's all I remember. he had some scary scythe too) It didn't kill much, but managed to slow down that unit severely, making it reach my lines turn 4, instead of turn 2. While it didn't kill much, it showed how disruptive one could be if placed well. I have to admit, it probably helped me win the game, as delaying that unit saved my support units and allowed me more time to whittle them down.
Hellhound Number 2: The underachiever, he didn't do much. Managed to run up, eat a lot of shooting, get a couple of flimsy shots on the immortal unit, and killed a guy. It proceeded to be glanced to death by warriors turn 3. Not sure if it was the tank's fault, bad rolling, or just me, it was just kinda meh.
Hellhound Number 3: One of the MVP's of the game, this one showed just how nasty these bad boys can be. Turn 1 it rushed up the right side of the board. Turn 2, it lined up a good shot on this walker thing the necron guy had (all i know is it shot a twinlinked lascannon that, if it hit, would allow other units to twin link as well) Hellhound pulls up, easily in melta range, fires, and explodes it in one shot. Turn 3, it races across the board and proceeds to unload on a unit of warriors holding an objective in the back. It killed all but 3 over a couple of turns before they managed to glance it to death, and that wasn't till turn 5. Had I rolled a little better, it could've easily cleared that objective and continued it's rampage.
Thing I learned though was that 3 hellhounds is just way too much. If I continue running these, I would probably run at most 2, and a devil dog or two as well. That way, you can be more flexible, and be able to handle more threats. I'm torn between putting a multimelta on the devil dog (to turn it into a real tank hunter) or throw a heavy flamer on as a backup plan incase I fight another horde army or need to clear an objective. I guess if I already have 2 hellhounds though, it wouldn't be a big deal putting the multimelta on. The multimelta worked great on the hellhound, and made it a lot more flexible. Plus, the way the inferno cannon works, you'll almost never use a normal flamer anyways, so may as well take a weapon you can use on a regular basis. It also did a great job of killing IC wound soakers so the inferno cannon could kill off the weaker scrubs behind him.
These tanks definitely have potential, but they're very reliant on your meta. Each one is designed with a different role, so choose the one that matters most to you. I'll be trying the devil dog next time I get to play, and will probably keep running 2 hellhounds for a while as well. They're a lot of fun, people don't expect them, and they're a cool and unique unit. Plus, they're not $80, so if you need some good fast attack that won't break the bank, they might be the right choice for you. They can also score on The scouring, if that matters.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
About 3000 
