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 Maj. Kolbak wrote:
Space Marines fluff wise are better than the average boy, its when the Big 'Uns get involved and such that things start getting interesting but one on one Marines.

Big Ork is best Ork.

There are Orks out there who are big enuff to krump most space marines.
That said, Ghazhkull is one of da biggesst an' meenest Orkz around, and Yarrick keeps kicking him down.
Although, then again, Yarrick is also capable of some serious marine-krumping when he sets his mind to it.


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 Ashiraya wrote:
I consider the Space Marine game an accurate depiction of such battles.

Works for me, so long as you are on the hardest difficulty setting.
Ork boyz = cannon fodder
Ork nobz = legit threat
Big Bad Black Ork Nobz = Gonna krump ya, unless you're seriously ready for them.
Grimskull = here comes the pain train. Until you learn to kite his attacks.

Helsreach by a.d.b is pretty good at portraying marines as enhanced humans and not invincible uber gods of war. plus as they're templars theres not a great deal of mincing around with bolters its all about chainswords so plenty of hand to hand combat. yes its from the templars pov but then it does feel quite balanced.

one on one the templars have the edge against normal boys but when the numbers are realistic the orks start to erode them down.

 ProwlerPC wrote:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
The fluff is very specific, if a painboy reaches the head and body in time it can be reattached and the Ork can continue fighting.

I bolded and underlined my caveat for you. Does humans have any time span to get their head reattached to actually have an ingame effect? No it's an instant death. But again fluff isn't always translated well to game mechanics which was the other caveat I put in.

I have the Codex too.

No.

An Ork's head can live on for some time when completely severed from the body, and can even be transplanted to another body altogether before death sets in.

As far as I know, the above sentence means that the head dies on its own after a time, and can even be put on another body where it will work for a while before dying.




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 Selym wrote:

Works for me, so long as you are on the hardest difficulty setting.
Ork boyz = cannon fodder
Ork nobz = legit threat
Big Bad Black Ork Nobz = Gonna krump ya, unless you're seriously ready for them.
Grimskull = here comes the pain train. Until you learn to kite his attacks.

I did not notice much difference between the difficulty settings, but that's just me.

In SM, the higher the difficulty setting, the greater the Ork's damage output. Highest has about 4x the output of the lowsest,
Ofc, it doesn't really matter in rage mode.

 Selym wrote:
In SM, the higher the difficulty setting, the greater the Ork's damage output. Highest has about 4x the output of the lowsest,
Ofc, it doesn't really matter in rage mode.

Really? I honestly didn't notice.

nightshae007 wrote:
Technically, a warboss with a power klaw could shred a marine into pieces... just saying

This thread died over 2 years ago...
But now that it has been given this unholy second life, I guess I might as well chime in.

I agree with several other people here that a single Space Marine is roughly on the same level as a strong Ork Nob (a Nob wearing power armour is far stronger though). A Space Marine can slaughter small groups of lesser Orks with ease, but an Ork Warboss can do the same to Space Marines. Orks can really vary in strenght, because the more they fight, the bigger they grow and stronger they become. An Ork that survives long enough can reach truly awesome levels of power. See the Ork that almost killed the Emperor for an example

Whoa, my old thread!
Thanks for all replies to my question, I agree with most.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
See the Ork that almost killed the Emperor for an example

That is contested. There's a thread on it right now.

That said, I think it's far easier for an SM to kill boyz than it is for a warboss to kill SM. The warboss is not fast enough to use his strength and toughness advantages in the same way.

"The greenskin regenerative process itself is so powerful that an Ork who has been hacked to bits can simply be stitched back together, bewildered but ready to fight once more. Nothing but the most grievous wounds will put an Ork down for long, and burning them to ash is reputed to be the only way to make absolutely sure that they are gone for good." - pg 6 Ork Codex

Being chopped to bits would've been one of those grievous wounds that would've kept that Ork down for very long, luckily a painboy was near to stitch him up before the hacked up living bits died. Had there not, those living bits would've laid there till they died.

"Ork's green colouration could be explained, scholars suggest, due to some form of algae that permeates their cellular makeup. Such a substance could break down and repair damaged tissue at an incredible rate, accounting in part for the Ork's extremely durable metabolism. Those observers of other races who maintain this theory point to the fact that an Ork's head can live for some time after being completely severed from the body. Indeed, operations to reattach these are a staple of many a Painboy's repertoire (staple being the operative word)." - pg 14 Ork Codex

It says there it reattaches the head not move it to another body. Pg 6 already told us that the body can be hacked to bits and still be stitched back together. This statement on pg 14 further exemplifies this by saying even the head can be removed. But I suppose if the logic that it's original body is dead and no longer a viable candidate for the living head then another headless body would be just as unviable of an option.

"Yet Ork physiology is incredibly durable, their pain threshold high enough that all but the most grievous invasive procedures can be survived. Painboyz' brutal liberties are normally overlooked, especially when a Dok successfully re-staples a prominent Nob's head mid-battle, or furnishes the Warboss with a brand new flame-throwing arm." - pg 58 Ork Codex (painboy entry)

 Ashiraya wrote:
No, the head continues living a short time if removed, and they die soon anyway even if it is transplanted.

But the body dies without the head.

But for fun I'd like to explore the idea of this. Ok so it's original body died without the head. I imagine the other headless body died without it's head and can't be used either. What's our other option...two headed Orks? Ok so if the head is attached to an Ork with a head already, which is dominant? Does attaching the head to the full Ork mean the whole Ork dies later or is it just the attached head? If the whole Ork why sacrifice the Ork and just leave the other head to die? If just the head, wouldn't that smell? What would be the point of attaching a decomposing head to a full Ork?

 Ashiraya wrote:
An Ork's head can live on for some time when completely severed from the body, and can even be transplanted to another body altogether before death sets in.

I can't find this line. What page? Since it's the premise of your argument.

It's pretty obvious that the head has to be attached to the body before either the body or head dies at any cellular level, Orks are hardy enough that these parts will take time to die and if a painboy is nearby he can put humpty dumpty back together again as long as he does it before those parts die. Also while I imagine it's possible for an Painboy to put the head of an Ork onto another Ork's headless body I haven't seen the line yet and I've not seen instance of two headed Orks yet. I'm guessing the genetic programming of the Painboy doesn't allow for it at an instinctive level (all oddboy knowledge is genetically encoded) but rather stays inline with the original Ork template.

I like your sig btw.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

nightshae007 wrote:
Technically, a warboss with a power klaw could shred a marine into pieces... just saying

This thread died over 2 years ago...
But now that it has been given this unholy second life, I guess I might as well chime in.

I agree with several other people here that a single Space Marine is roughly on the same level as a strong Ork Nob (a Nob wearing power armour is far stronger though). A Space Marine can slaughter small groups of lesser Orks with ease, but an Ork Warboss can do the same to Space Marines. Orks can really vary in strenght, because the more they fight, the bigger they grow and stronger they become. An Ork that survives long enough can reach truly awesome levels of power. See the Ork that almost killed the Emperor for an example

The Ork not only didn't nearly kill the Emperor after Horus "saved" him, after being "saved", the Emperor immediately curbstomped it by cutting it from sternum to pelvis, then completely erased it by destroying it down to the soul, the same fate that would await Horus near the end of M30.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
I can't find this line. What page? Since it's the premise of your argument.

Page 11, 4th edition Ork codex. Still comparatively recent, came 2007. I haven't read their last codex (not too impressed with it) but if the passage is omitted it is technically still not a retcon.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
I like your sig btw.

Thank you.

I'd say a space marine can shoot aloot of orks but in cc he could kill 3 and than get overwhelmed , ork nob would smack regular sm and is worth 1,5 - 2 marines in cc . And ofcours there are super lucky heroes who just smack ork warbosses, hivetyrants and so on ...

It's pretty hard to gauge a fair fight, orks won't sit around, do a calculation, and send in X amount of orks against the space marines. They go all or nothing, and see how it goes from there. And very few times are space marines alone either, they at least will have their squad with them, unless they already died perhaps. But if their entire squad had died from fighting, the surviving marine is probably injured, which wouldn't make it a fair fight for him.

Going for the "depends on the Ork and depends on the Marine" side.
Didn't a warboss nearly kill the emperor and only didn't due to intervention from Horus?

But my thinking is along this -

Grot v Scout - Scout Wins
Boy v Marine - Marine wins
Nob v Captain - Nob wins
Mega-Nob v Terminator - Mega-Nob wins
Warboss v Chapter Master - Varied results pending on Boss and Chapter Master

Grot vs X - X wins.

Not sure about nob vs captain. I'd say that nob wins out vs a regular marine but captain is usually equipped to the best sm standards and can put up a good fight himself. I think that Captain vs Nob is in captain's favor. Captains even stand a chance against Warbosses, though, it's an uphill battle for a marine. Chapter masters are not much different to Captains other than having access to some of the unique equipment and possessing even more battle experience.

But a warboss is a true beast up close, he has a potential to bring down almost any chapter master in the galaxy fluffwise.

On the other hand, neither captains/chapter masters nor nobs/warbosses are standing there in the open field waiting for a 1 on one fight. So, there's really no use comparing them 1 on 1. Yep, a Tiger tank beats T-34 in the open field one on one all day every day. But on a real battlefield there are always 3 times more T-34 tanks that are also faster and more maneuvrable.