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RedAngel - the story I'm writting at the moment, (cough) on dakka fiction lol, has to start out wiv a little ork bashing as this is fluff for my d.i.y chapter (can't have them looking like panzies in front of the other chapters) later on the orks will have their day but I needed it to be believable fluff wise so I wanted to know how they stacked up against each other. by the looks of the thread mission complete a big thank you to everyone who has posted.
Big Mek Wurrzog - yes I am a marine fanboy but war is war and people die...alot, it depends on the fortunes of war as to who dies and when and where not hey he's a marine he can't die until he has killed 100,000,000 orks, thats just lame and as already said boring.
Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
I think ork fans should be flattered They're the bad guys everyone wants to beat. For hordes thiers Nids, but people prefer to blaze away at Da Waaagghh. Unstopable, all powerful evil? Fight chaos! HEll No! We'z wants tuh stomp da green 'uns!
PS. Themanwiththeplan
You know what I like? Chocolate ice cream, but not just plain ice cream. I want choco bombs on it with choco syrup. Throw some more choco ice cream on that in fact and drown it in choco sprinkles. Basicaly...no matter how bad the fluff is ill read it so long as its extra fluffy ONWARD. FELLOW SPACE MARINE ! ! !
Big Mek Wurrzog wrote: I play deathwatch, I know what you mean.. you guys are seriously twisting my words around. For the love of gork get your fandom out of your butts pls.
I play and like Orks. I don't really care for most Marines.
Is your mind blown?
on average, an ork USING DEATH WATCH is similar strength (within the 10 brackets) of an average space marine using scout armor since it doesn't provide benefits to strength or require a power cell. I never said this matter i said it evens the strength playing field NOTHING MORE. *sigh* I'm tired of butting heads on anything IOM Void, despite the preconceptions you seem to have formed about me I actually enjoy space marines and IG nearly as uch as orks and i am still mulling over if I should get them as allies or not (more a money and collection issue than anything else)
Haha, you made preconceptions about me then moaned about me allegedly making preconceptions about you, that's ironic.
Marines are generated with a base 30 in all stats in Deathwatch, and given a base 2d10 to their stats in things like Strength. Orks for those who don't recall start with a 25 and add the same 2d10. Literally its nearly identical on basic levels if they aren't using power armor but instead using scout armor. Also most marines who enjoy scout armor as opposed to Astartes power armor are fluff wise the youngest recruits and thus would have had less time to hone their bodies or experience. The main difference is Space marines have unnatural Strength which doubles their strength at start and orks pick it up along the way very quickly (rank 2-3 if I recall right) also an ork's strength is easily upgraded using the smallest exp needed for any stats in the class. Even an ork at rank 1 can easily sport 60+ and your 80 base is not accurate, your 30+2d10 and then modifying it for damage is different than actual strength it only gives 2 degrees of success in the game when opposed. It's very likely since orks are hardy and sport feats which make them amazing grapplers that a space marine would find his match once in hand to hand without that +2 you talk about.
Once an Ork gets Unnatural Strength x2, it ceases being an Ork Boy. It is now a Nob or on the path to becoming one.
The character creation rules IMHO don't really portray the average as well as, say,the bestiary does. In the bestiary a Marine is something like str 45 with unnatural strength x 2. A Boy is str 46 with no such modifier.
I am talking about averages. I am sure there might be some particularly imposing Boyz, just as there are particularly imposing Marines (Abaddon, Arjac Rockfist, Kharn, Draigo, etc).
on average a marine should have 41 strength which becomes 81 due to unnatural strength and 101 due to power armor, remove the power armor and you quickly see the drop goes down to 80's again and funnier still is the marines that roll 9 and lower are literally on par with infant orks. because it's entirely possible to have a 30ish strength as a marine at character generation lets say a 4 is rolled for strength. 30+4 = 34 even if he upgrades strength he is now set to 39 which using unnatural strength it become 39 with unnattural meaning he is hitting with 6's ... the same power an ork can produce at rank 1 as well.
You're comparing the absolute best-case scenario for an Ork to the worst case for a Marine.
Stop it. It is irrelevant to the point of this thread.
Sorry that imply true statements like less strength and saying "less of an advantage" upset you all so much. but 20 points to strength is massive (i like that you disguised it as 2 tho...) you could spend months IRL building your character's strength through experience to replicate a similar effect (again orks are capable of doing it within their 1st level). If you have a problem with me saying something is a more even playing field but you are still more mobile and generally bettered armored i think you're (and i mean this as an inclusive statement to others not just yourself) perhaps too sensitive to the subject.
I said 2 because every ten points of strength upgrades the modifier by one. I was entirely honest.
I'm not sensitive to the subject at all, demonstratively less than you certainly, considering the heartfelt tl;dr post you just sent my way.
10,000 xp character vs. 5,000 xp character as well. with the xp needed to set an ork on par he is already outshining these categories but again you want to insist that a chapter of only 1000 men is always superior to orks under any condition even tap dancing in the nude so i am starting to see the futility in talking without ego or pride entering the prism of the conversation.
Now you're not so much twisting my words as you are putting them into my mouth.
I said, on average (You should really look up what this word means), a Marine is physically superior (And overall much superior) to an Ork Boy, nothing more, nothing less. Your disingenuous accusations will not fly here sir.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/06 05:39:07
Big Mek Wurrzog wrote: You have to understand how space Maureen Fanboyz are indoctrinated to accept as law in their own minds is something akin to this.
1 Marine vs 9001 orks
Pipe = thunderhammer btw....
I'd say that's quite accurate, actually... providing Neo = 1st Company Vet with power fists and the Smiths = Grots with wrenches! (well, except that one guy @ 3:04... imagin a Grot doing that to a Marine yeah, maybe make that one a Nob w/ power claw or something ).
Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek)
Big Mek Wurrzog wrote: You have to understand how space Maureen Fanboyz are indoctrinated to accept as law in their own minds is something akin to this.
1 Marine vs 9001 orks
Pipe = thunderhammer btw....
I'd say that's quite accurate, actually... providing Neo = 1st Company Vet with power fists and the Smiths = Grots with wrenches! (well, except that one guy @ 3:04... imagin a Grot doing that to a Marine yeah, maybe make that one a Nob w/ power claw or something ).
I'm actually willing to completely support the grot idea they are basically children which seems like the only impacts Neo is actually taking.
" I don't lead da Waagh I build it! " - Big-Mek Wurrzog
If the orks can get into melee with the marines before the marines are aware of the threat (kommando ambush, stormboy assault, etc), the orks are probably going to win a fight with even numbers. The marine advantage in discipline isn't going to help much when they don't have time to formulate/communicate a battle plan.
No, but the marine's advantage in discipline probably means they have immediate action drills to deal with sudden occurrences like this. It's not a win button by any stretch, but soldiers can engage in coordinated action with minimal communication if they are all working from the same play book, which is something the marines have in spades.
Can anyone point me in the direction of some good Kommando stories or just tell me what they can do please.
Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
Did anyone point out how Marneus Calgar held off an entire Waagh by himself for an entire day and an entire night?
He was also banging Saint Celestine while he did it. Though that part may be a fabrication.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
No, is it online somewhere Brother Chaplain Haigh?
Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
1 Ultramarines company (100 men) defeated an entire ork Waaaaghh. With something like 12 space marine casualties lol
And I'm sure the Imperial Guard there didn't help at all.
agreed, what is frustrating to explain to people is that Orkish Waaagh's are of varying levels when it comes to orks, thus why there are always so many ravaging the Impeium at the same time. Things like Waaaagh Wazzdakka is more dangerous than waaagh grimgore. It depends how infamous the orks have been how long the warboss has been around if if that boss has any major trophies or feats under his belt. These same factors are what impress us at 40k players but also the orks themselves the more you read or hear about these things the more grandeous and obnoxious the horde becomes to deal with. Since most these examples are coming from Space Marine codexes i would say.... it's more than likely a minor waaagh with IG assistance.
Space marines are obviously better than orks, but even they are not able to face most waaaghs without becoming a destroyed chapter or ravaged one without the assitance of "The Hammer of the Emperor" the IG. Don't take offense if you are Space Marines, this is directly in correlation with how the Codex Astartes says they should behave.
" I don't lead da Waagh I build it! " - Big-Mek Wurrzog
1 Ultramarines company (100 men) defeated an entire ork Waaaaghh. With something like 12 space marine casualties lol
And I'm sure the Imperial Guard there didn't help at all.
agreed, what is frustrating to explain to people is that Orkish Waaagh's are of varying levels when it comes to orks, thus why there are always so many ravaging the Impeium at the same time. Things like Waaaagh Wazzdakka is more dangerous than waaagh grimgore. It depends how infamous the orks have been how long the warboss has been around if if that boss has any major trophies or feats under his belt. These same factors are what impress us at 40k players but also the orks themselves the more you read or hear about these things the more grandeous and obnoxious the horde becomes to deal with. Since most these examples are coming from Space Marine codexes i would say.... it's more than likely a minor waaagh with IG assistance.
Space marines are obviously better than orks, but even they are not able to face most waaaghs without becoming a destroyed chapter or ravaged one without the assitance of "The Hammer of the Emperor" the IG. Don't take offense if you are Space Marines, this is directly in correlation with how the Codex Astartes says they should behave.
Agreed with 100%.
A good example of this would be:
Waagh rampages through a couple of worlds.
IG arrives by the truckloads to grind its momentum to a halt.
SM kill teams are sent in to cut off the Waagh's head by killing the Warboss, effectively breaking its back so the IG can sweep it away.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/05 13:41:16
Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
What about those big squiggs they use on their space ships for air ventilation, can they break free and go on the rampage or are they too fat to move?
Come into my web, said the spider to the fly.
Come rest your wings, and let us talk eye to eye.
For I am a spider, and you are the fly. Now that you are here, let us sit, and say hi.
But I have have no morsel to share, nor anything to eat. But wait, what is that stickiness upon your feet.
Ah now I have you, now I can eat. Now I can enjoy you, or store you as meat.
For I am the spider, and you are the fly. How else could it have gone, between one such as you, and one such as I.
Themanwiththeplan wrote: What about those big squiggs they use on their space ships for air ventilation, can they break free and go on the rampage or are they too fat to move?
Orks iz da biggest and da best, space Mahreens can't handle da endless mobs of da boyz wez packin, just ask dem krimson fist boyz they'll tell ya what's what
My 2 pence as a SM player and lover of both SM and Ork fluff:
Scout vs Ork = Fairly even at close range, though Scout will shoot Ork to death if possible of get a stealth advantage.
Marine vs Ork = Imagine an adult versus a child with a slightly blunt knife. The Marine can easily dispatch the Ork, but still needs to be wary.
Marine vs Kommando = Again, like the above. The Kommando might get a few strikes in, but the Astartes can still take the greenskin out.
Marine vs Nob = Ah, here we are. These two are very close, the Nob being more resilient to the Astartes, but the Space Marine can still outwit and outlast the Nob. However, a power klaw will make this a fairly certain Nob win. Still not entire squad killing capablility yet though.
Sergeant vs Nob = Sergeant wins against a normal Nob, but a power klaw Nob is harder. The outcome still favours the Sergeant due to better wargear (chainsword, possible power weapon) and experience, but the Nob is a powerful adversary.
Sergeant vs Warboss = A non-PK Warboss will prove difficult to a Sergeant, but possible. A PK toting one will pretty much always kill the Sergeant in melee, but shooting at it may even this up a bit.
Captain vs Warboss = Captain, no question. More experience and skill. Warbosses are part of a day's work.
Captain vs Warlord = A Captain will definately struggle, this is a very even fight.
Captain vs Ghazkull level Warlord = Warlord, easily.
So, you see here that SM usually beat their Ork ranking equivilant. BS, I hear you cry. I understand. Isolated, these reports are clearly in favour of Marines. That's why there are hundreds of Orks for every Marine, hundreds of Warbosses for each Captain. There are probably more Nobs than regular Marines, which makes this then very hard for Marines.
If in a protracted fight against a large horde of Orks, instead of rapid alpha strikes to kill a smaller body of greenskins, the Astartes will need to use firepower and strategic placement to secure victory. If a large enough mob of Orks reach Marine lines, the Astartes will eventually go down to sheer numbers.
Member of 
DKoK Blog:
Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey
They're the bad guys everyone wants to beat. For hordes thiers Nids, but people prefer to blaze away at Da Waaagghh. Unstopable, all powerful evil? Fight chaos! HEll No! We'z wants tuh stomp da green 'uns!
" - Big-Mek Wurrzog
List of Da Propahly Zogged!!! 
(well, except that one guy @ 3:04... imagin a Grot doing that to a Marine 
yeah, maybe make that one a Nob w/ power claw or something 
).
3500 points
2000 points
1500 points
1000 points
5000 pts +/-
6000pts +/-
WAAAGH Squigeye: 3500 and counting 