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 batfink wrote:
what annoys me is the height, when i put normal CSM up against some of my newer space wolves, they are almost a full head taller.
I guess all the chaos guys were the cool bad boys that smoked in school and now have their growth stunted

And were the Ultramarines the kids they bullied only to end up on the wrong side of the law?

Indeed, forging a narrative i like it

For the record Dreamforge just did it's KS for the Leviathan Crusaders and Mark (the owner) said the moulds for the Titan size Crusaders would cost $100,000

 batfink wrote:
what annoys me is the height, when i put normal CSM up against some of my newer space wolves, they are almost a full head taller.
I guess all the chaos guys were the cool bad boys that smoked in school and now have their growth stunted

Really?

I hate to wheel out the old T'internet adage of "pics or it didn't happen" but really, all the SM kits (Chaos or otherwise) are designed to be modular and can go together with one another. You are either mistaken or some SW player is using some (ugh!) "truescaling" technique on their models (or have scenic bases). That or it's the topknots...

 Grimtuff wrote:

 batfink wrote:
what annoys me is the height, when i put normal CSM up against some of my newer space wolves, they are almost a full head taller.
I guess all the chaos guys were the cool bad boys that smoked in school and now have their growth stunted

Really?

I hate to wheel out the old T'internet adage of "pics or it didn't happen" but really, all the SM kits (Chaos or otherwise) are designed to be modular and can go together with one another. You are either mistaken or some SW player is using some (ugh!) "truescaling" technique on their models (or have scenic bases). That or it's the topknots...

Might be the posture of the CSM mini's as well. They have the generic "bracing" stance of legs slightly bent and spread, much like Vanilla SM, whilst some of the SW models are standing almost completely straight, giving one the illusion of greater height.

Click on any of the images with a "bracing" SW next to one that looks to be striding forward or stand straight and you can see how one can be mistaken:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440281a&prodId=prod260003a

The space wolves kits have bigger torsos, and are not interchangeable with the regular SMs or CSM. I learned that the hard way. I don't think that would make it a head-height difference, but it's worth a note. They also have stupid hands with little slots (on the plasma guns at least). It's like they're made for 10 year olds or something.

The CSM aren't much bigger than cadians, really. They're maybe... 3mm taller? I think everyone's aware how ridiculously large cadians are though

The thing that bugs me about the CSMs models are the oversized helmets that they all have... Somehow, 10k years or so in the warp, suddenly makes your helmet too big? I mean, I get the at the time of sculpting, the may have needed a larger head to affix horns and whatnot to, but c'mon man, they are too big for the scale of the rest of the lines.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
For the record Dreamforge just did it's KS for the Leviathan Crusaders and Mark (the owner) said the moulds for the Titan size Crusaders would cost $100,000

Sure, but how much larger (or many more) are molds for a Titan rather than a box of Marine (or similar), four times? Going with 4x, that would make the cost only 25K for molds for a box of infantry.

This release is comparable to the first two fantasy releases. OGs had two new unit s with the savage orcs/boyar boyz, a handful of characters, and one really large kit. Tomb Kings went the same route except they got a monstrous infantry unit instead of cavalry. VC was slightly different in that they got cavalry, two large models, a handful of plastic characters, and a unit of monstrous infantry.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
The thing that bugs me about the CSMs models are the oversized helmets that they all have... Somehow, 10k years or so in the warp, suddenly makes your helmet too big? I mean, I get the at the time of sculpting, the may have needed a larger head to affix horns and whatnot to, but c'mon man, they are too big for the scale of the rest of the lines.

GW has always made their helmet heads the same size as the bare ones so the figure looks 'right' at first glance.

Of course we all know that helmet heads should be bigger than bare ones, so some GW artists give marines pin heads. The Chaos helmets might be an example of going the other way.

i really think using the fantasy chaos heads make for a better looking CSM asthetically. Sure there are no pipes or rebreathers but we're chaos so who cares right?

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

And if they were the complaint would be: they have remade too much! It is not fair to have to buy all new stuff! I see no reason to arbitrarily remake old valid models, people like new toys and expanding model lines.

This. SO THIS.

"How DARE they make me get new core troop models! GW IS NEGLECTING US AND RIPPING US OFF!"

No one on earth would complain about a resculpt for Abbadon. That model if fething awful and he's one of the posterboys of 40k. This 40k release is one of the laziest releases GW has made in years. After the total resculpts of the DE and necron lines you would think that they'd do the same here. Chaos sure as hell needs it. No one buys the finecast plaguemarines. I have never seen a box of those move to anyone.

You Have never seen it move. I have at the US Factory store in Memphis. Because people play them. Oh, and that kit has been out a while and they tend to sell out of them especially since the daemons update and. Now with the new dex. And they are not ripping you off. The raptors kit gives you lightning claws that fit terminators, spare bits to make aspiring champs for your core, or just flair out you core and still be able to build a kit. So..... STFU and quit if ya don't like it. I won't even act like I enjoy the prices, but in the end I've spent more money on booze and strippers than I will ever spend on this hobby.

Oh god. I've just realised.

I'm one of those young players goaded into buying flashy specialised units with a short-term corporate strategy. I'm one of those players who have 1-2 units of Troops, and a half-dozen FA, HS, HQ and Elites choices. I don't enjoy moving big squads around and I don't enjoy rolling more than a handful of dice.

I was eyeing up a terminator box today, and I don't even have a full two squads of Marines!

What have I become?

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

And if they were the complaint would be: they have remade too much! It is not fair to have to buy all new stuff! I see no reason to arbitrarily remake old valid models, people like new toys and expanding model lines.

This. SO THIS.

"How DARE they make me get new core troop models! GW IS NEGLECTING US AND RIPPING US OFF!"

No one on earth would complain about a resculpt for Abbadon. That model if fething awful and he's one of the posterboys of 40k. This 40k release is one of the laziest releases GW has made in years. After the total resculpts of the DE and necron lines you would think that they'd do the same here. Chaos sure as hell needs it. No one buys the finecast plaguemarines. I have never seen a box of those move to anyone.

http://qkme.me/3rdqed

 NimbleJack3 wrote:
Oh god. I've just realised.

I'm one of those young players goaded into buying flashy specialised units with a short-term corporate strategy. I'm one of those players who have 1-2 units of Troops, and a half-dozen FA, HS, HQ and Elites choices. I don't enjoy moving big squads around and I don't enjoy rolling more than a handful of dice.

I was eyeing up a terminator box today, and I don't even have a full two squads of Marines!

What have I become?

You either die the hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain

Spaz431 wrote:

 ShumaGorath wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

nkelsch wrote:

And if they were the complaint would be: they have remade too much! It is not fair to have to buy all new stuff! I see no reason to arbitrarily remake old valid models, people like new toys and expanding model lines.

This. SO THIS.

"How DARE they make me get new core troop models! GW IS NEGLECTING US AND RIPPING US OFF!"

No one on earth would complain about a resculpt for Abbadon. That model if fething awful and he's one of the posterboys of 40k. This 40k release is one of the laziest releases GW has made in years. After the total resculpts of the DE and necron lines you would think that they'd do the same here. Chaos sure as hell needs it. No one buys the finecast plaguemarines. I have never seen a box of those move to anyone.

You Have never seen it move. I have at the US Factory store in Memphis. Because people play them. Oh, and that kit has been out a while and they tend to sell out of them especially since the daemons update and. Now with the new dex. And they are not ripping you off. The raptors kit gives you lightning claws that fit terminators, spare bits to make aspiring champs for your core, or just flair out you core and still be able to build a kit. So..... STFU and quit if ya don't like it. I won't even act like I enjoy the prices, but in the end I've spent more money on booze and strippers than I will ever spend on this hobby.

Ok tuff guy. You kinda lost your train of thought halfway through and just went on your own tangent.

Spaz431 wrote:


You Have never seen it move. I have at the US Factory store in Memphis. Because people play them. Oh, and that kit has been out a while and they tend to sell out of them especially since the daemons update and. Now with the new dex. And they are not ripping you off. The raptors kit gives you lightning claws that fit terminators, spare bits to make aspiring champs for your core, or just flair out you core and still be able to build a kit. So..... STFU and quit if ya don't like it. I won't even act like I enjoy the prices, but in the end I've spent more money on booze and strippers than I will ever spend on this hobby.

I did think about trying to write an articulate post in reply, but then I thought why bother? Instead, better to just post the original post in its natural, un-abridged majesty. Absolutely wonderful, and the username gives the reader a warning of what to expect with the text that follows.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 NimbleJack3 wrote:
Oh god. I've just realised.

I'm one of those young players goaded into buying flashy specialised units with a short-term corporate strategy. I'm one of those players who have 1-2 units of Troops, and a half-dozen FA, HS, HQ and Elites choices. I don't enjoy moving big squads around and I don't enjoy rolling more than a handful of dice.

I was eyeing up a terminator box today, and I don't even have a full two squads of Marines!

What have I become?

You either die the hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain

Right, that's it - I'm done with 40K. I'm moving straight into the RPG games, which I acutally enjoy.
I can use the unassembled models I have left as game miniatures. Hooray for 25mm RPG standard!

I think its relevant to remember that GW is first and foremost a minatures producer. The games were produced on the side, as a way of giving collectors something to do with their models.

Since the games became very successful, there has been an intermingling of priorities, but I get the feeling GW is still, a heart, focused on collectors who need to get every new model.

 darkkt wrote:
I think its relevant to remember that GW is first and foremost a minatures producer. The games were produced on the side, as a way of giving collectors something to do with their models.

Since the games became very successful, there has been an intermingling of priorities, but I get the feeling GW is still, a heart, focused on collectors who need to get every new model.

I think that there's a little something amiss with this. I mean, I understand that GW has said this previously, but if it really were the case, then wouldn't Revel, Tamiya, or any of the other scale model companies come up with something to "do" with their models? I mean, the historical model market, I'd say is larger than the "war game" hobby market, I think that most guys who get "display" models aren't overly interested in GW or any other "gaming model" company out there, they by and large will stick with the fine scale, historic model companies, or model train companies, etc.

Even companies like Tamiya go back and redo the designs for an existing model. They go and update molds on models that sell very well. Of course, they also do sell each other various blue prints and whatnot, so in some cases, different companies make literally the same model, with the difference being in the material composition.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I think that there's a little something amiss with this. I mean, I understand that GW has said this previously, but if it really were the case, then wouldn't Revel, Tamiya, or any of the other scale model companies come up with something to "do" with their models?

The difference with those companies is they make kits from real world stuff. If someone comes around and you say 'look at this awesome F14 I just spent months building', they might be quite interested. They probably know what an F14 is.

If someone comes around who hasn't heard of 40k, and you say 'look at this awesome Baneblade I just finished', they'll very likely be less interested, most likely considering it a toy and nothing more.

Entirely possible. Perhaps its simple economics - creating a new model and mould require cost and time.

If you create an entirely new unit, your potential market is everyone (as no-one currently has this model).

If you replace an old one, your potential market is everyone LESS those people who are happy enough with the old model.

So with my current CSM army, I am seriously looking at the new flyer - but my ugly yabbadabadon can stay as he is - Im not spending the money on a new model, even if its way more awesome looking.

*(ok, if it were WAY more awesome, I might buy it - Im a sucka)*

 -Loki- wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
I think that there's a little something amiss with this. I mean, I understand that GW has said this previously, but if it really were the case, then wouldn't Revel, Tamiya, or any of the other scale model companies come up with something to "do" with their models?

The difference with those companies is they make kits from real world stuff. If someone comes around and you say 'look at this awesome F14 I just spent months building', they might be quite interested. They probably know what an F14 is.

If someone comes around who hasn't heard of 40k, and you say 'look at this awesome Baneblade I just finished', they'll very likely be less interested, most likely considering it a toy and nothing more.

And that's even more the case with much of the new Chaos line, or some of the more recent Fantasy monsters/Dreadknight etc.