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 d-usa wrote:
We have the death sentence and some of the toughest crime laws. Yet we have more people in prison per capita than how many nations?

Please tell me how "tough on crime" has worked for us over the last 50 years?

Don't forget, you also have a high racial bias in sentencing, proved the failure of the death penalty as a deterrent, given up on rehab in most cases and failed to tackle the root cause of crime- poverty and lack of education. Also many states don't remove psycholgically unsound prisoners from general population as it costs to much to treat them. (Not having a go, btw.)

The numbers of repeat offenders and murderers may be due to the "shank or be shanked" environment in American prisons where all of those cited examples come from. Hell there is a gang that has a business model bases on the pay or we'll shank your boys in jail principle. Do prisons even bother with rehabilitation and education for long term prisoners?


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 purplefood wrote:

While I agree that legality doesn't necessarily make things morally right, someone who stood by and watched someone get brutally raped or even encouraged it should get just as harsh a penalty as the people who did it.

Not sure standing by is the same as carrying out the act. Plenty of people stood by out of fear in the past. Guilt or punishment by association isn't right either.

Also sometimes innocent people are executed.

I'll leave it to Grey Templar, he seems to be articulating the points that I want to make a lot better than I.

But one thing about Indian Prisons - they're awful. Like, really awful. They're nothing like US prisons. It would probably be crueler to let them live another 20 years in there (because I don't expect them to live very long in a New Delhi prison) than executing them. Just throwing that out there.

Hey, I'm not cleaning up your mess.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
We have the death sentence and some of the toughest crime laws. Yet we have more people in prison per capita than how many nations?

Please tell me how "tough on crime" has worked for us over the last 50 years?

Don't forget, you also have a high racial bias in sentencing, proved the failure of the death penalty as a deterrent, given up on rehab in most cases and failed to tackle the root cause of crime- poverty and lack of education. Also many states don't remove psycholgically unsound prisoners from general population as it costs to much to treat them. (Not having a go, btw.)

The numbers of repeat offenders and murderers may be due to the "shank or be shanked" environment in American prisons where all of those cited examples come from. Hell there is a gang that has a business model bases on the pay or we'll shank your boys in jail principle. Do prisons even bother with rehabilitation and education for long term prisoners?

In all fairness, if the criminals in those examples I cited were executed, the death penalty would have been a great deterrent to the murders of their later victims.

You could always put them in a woman's prison; let them decide how best to treat them and leave no blood on your own hands.

On a more sane note, the prisons just further show how archaic and backwards the Indian governing system is. In dire need of an updated policy.

Relapse wrote:
@Sebster:

There are enough times that life in prison doesn't mean life in prison, added to the people some of these characters murder while in prison that lead to my opinion.

And I'm saying that you can just as easily fix that by making life mean life. The argument 'horrible people who committed horrible crimes are released and kill again, and the death penalty will stop that' ignores that we are quite capable of simply choosing not to release them.

It's a false argument. The death penalty may well be perfectly valid, but not because of the reason 'otherwise we'll end up letting them out again'. Because people who we might decide to put to death, we can just as easily declare 'you're never getting out, no matter what'.


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 Cheesecat wrote:
Also sometimes innocent people execution.

And by putting the death penalty into the mix, you're adding a really emotive element to a procedure that needs to be as rational and evidence based as possible to ensure we're only convicting people we know to be guilty. And that quickly leads to wrong verdicts.

 sebster wrote:

Relapse wrote:
@Sebster:

There are enough times that life in prison doesn't mean life in prison, added to the people some of these characters murder while in prison that lead to my opinion.

And I'm saying that you can just as easily fix that by making life mean life. The argument 'horrible people who committed horrible crimes are released and kill again, and the death penalty will stop that' ignores that we are quite capable of simply choosing not to release them.

It's a false argument. The death penalty may well be perfectly valid, but not because of the reason 'otherwise we'll end up letting them out again'. Because people who we might decide to put to death, we can just as easily declare 'you're never getting out, no matter what'.


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 Cheesecat wrote:
Also sometimes innocent people execution.

And by putting the death penalty into the mix, you're adding a really emotive element to a procedure that needs to be as rational and evidence based as possible to ensure we're only convicting people we know to be guilty. And that quickly leads to wrong verdicts.

I guess, I don't know the rates on innocent people who suffered the death penalty, also that was a horrible post on my part.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Have you considered maybe your heart should bleed for the victims instead of those who did such harm?

False choice much?

 AustonT wrote:

1.you are a sexist pig, women have primal urges too.

Man, noun.

1. An adult male human.

2. All humans collectively; mankind, humankind.

But of course you already knew that, so I don't really see the point of that part of your post.

 AustonT wrote:

2. Primal urges like beating a couple with an iron pipe, raping the woman, and dumping both naked in the street? Yeah they are in fact subhuman.

So why stoop to their level?

 Cheesecat wrote:
Also sometimes innocent people are executed.

It would be interesting to compare the number of innocent people executed to the number of people killed by those put in prison for murder and then later released.

After reading the 3 pages written while I didn't had interet, I can only say that Hammurabi would not be proud, but somewhat horrorized at the bloodlust shown in here.

The way this went over death penalty and some oppinions, reminded me of an old movie where people had microchips in them so the ones who would be outstanding would never develop their potential (specially intellectual), so everyone was an equal, average citizen... and juries convicted men to the electric chair for minor crimes, because who knows what they'll do tomorrow, and was aired on public tv for the amusement of the people.