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As ugly and just plain fethed up as the defence offered by the defence team was... welcome to the kind of misogyny that exists throughout most of the world, and existed in most the developed world until around a 100 years ago.

There is some real hope that this event could lead to some kind of a seachange in how rape is seen in India. With so many criminal gangs, and with the line between criminal gangs and politicians being so hazy it will likely to take a long time for any legal reform to meaningfully change things on the streets, but at least there's hope it might start moving in the right direction.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I am appalled at the individuals in this thread who think a hanging is too good for this scum.

You are too easy on them, living a life with no hope is a much better punishment. Death is an escape from the hell of an indian prison.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sebster wrote:
As ugly and just plain fethed up as the defence offered by the defence team was... welcome to the kind of misogyny that exists throughout most of the world, and existed in most the developed world not around a 100 years ago.

The US, UK and Ireland use the same sort of defence against rape. All common law courts see that defence (don't know about civil law systems), the only difference is the weight that it carries. 30 years ago in the UK panorama had an exposé of the interview that rape victims had to suffer through. Nobody has an ivory tower to sit in.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I'm not sure that you would like it should you have committed such a crime.

You know, I don't think I COULD commit such a crime. And folks than can and do, I don't really care what they think of their punishment/sentence.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
I'm not sure that you would like it should you have committed such a crime.

You're not supposed to "like" your punishment, that's the whole fething point!

"Like" being "deserving of some human rights".

It's appalling what some are suggesting.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
"Like" being "deserving of some human rights".

It's appalling what some are suggesting.

Behave like a rabid animal, get treated like one... Yep, seems fair to me.

Does it? Does it really?

So you think that they deserve:
1) Getting castrated
2) Spending a few weeks in the stocks in public, so people can ridicule them (amongst other things)
3) Have a public execution by burning

Is that what you think they deserve

Sure, they raped and killed a person. Why should their punishment be less worse than what they did to the victim?

They didn't burn the victim, did they?

I would say it is equivilent to disembowelment.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I would say it is equivilent to disembowelment.

Drawn and quarter'ed too. Go medieval...

I don't see much of a point in torturing someone who committed such a heinous crime. It doesn't solve the problem that the crime already happened, and it degrades the people actually committing the torture. I think life in a maximum security prison with no opportunity for parole would be more effective in this case, as:

a) Rapists are generally treated horrifically in prisons;
b) They have to go through horribly dehumanizing things every day for the rest of their lives;
c) (for those requiring some form of harsh punitive treatment) They are quite likely to suffer the same treatment in jail that they gave this woman.

That's just my opinion though.

I suppose that, unlike in our country, these guys wouldn't have proper medical attention, recreational facilities, guards that won't beat them up, private sleeping quarters, etc...

But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that there is the same stigma associated with Rape that there is over here. Given that their culture at large doesn't treat rape as seriously as we do over here I doubt the criminal elements will treat it any differently.

I could be wrong but I wouldn't make that assumption.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
"Like" being "deserving of some human rights".

It's appalling what some are suggesting.

As appalling as committing a morally reprehensible act?

Sure, due process and laws of the land judge not lest ye be oxen (or something) etc, etc, etc.

Sure, give them due process. In the event of a Guilty verdict, nasty nasty things await.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I suppose that, unlike in our country, these guys wouldn't have proper medical attention, recreational facilities, guards that won't beat them up, private sleeping quarters, etc...

But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that there is the same stigma associated with Rape that there is over here. Given that their culture at large doesn't treat rape as seriously as we do over here I doubt the criminal elements will treat it any differently.

I could be wrong but I wouldn't make that assumption.

Fair point. I still imagine that the conditions in a prison would regardless be pretty horrible, rape stigma or no.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I suppose that, unlike in our country, these guys wouldn't have proper medical attention, recreational facilities, guards that won't beat them up, private sleeping quarters, etc...

But I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that there is the same stigma associated with Rape that there is over here. Given that their culture at large doesn't treat rape as seriously as we do over here I doubt the criminal elements will treat it any differently.

I could be wrong but I wouldn't make that assumption.

I think the unwritten code of conduct would put the Indian rapists at risk. Doesn't matter where in the world. rape is morally abhorent. if anything it is s sign of weakness. And prison populations sniff out weakness like sharks do blood.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Does it? Does it really?

So you think that they deserve:
1) Getting castrated
2) Spending a few weeks in the stocks in public, so people can ridicule them (amongst other things)
3) Have a public execution by burning

Is that what you think they deserve

Yes, I think that they deserve all of those things.

They've beaten, raped, disembowelled and left a young women to die in the side of the road, some even say that they backed up the bus to run her over afterwards. If they are found guilty, which at this point seems likely considering that they have actual physical evidence on themselves and their defence seems to consist of "she was asking for it by behaving like a slut", then they deserve to die in the most brutally painful form known to man.

Let me stress this again for those in the cheap seats: they raped and murdered a young women in an extremely cruel and sadistic way for their ENTERTAINMENT! I'm sorry if that may shock some of you, but I don't consider "people" capable of doing such a thing as a fellow human being.

I pretty much agree with grayshadow87 regarding the "degrading of people", except that instead of lifelong imprisonment I'd give them a nice sunny wall to lean against and a cigarette.
These folks have (in the event of a guilty verdict) proven themselves to be at about the same level as rabid dogs, and should be put down in the same manner.
Ni vindictiveness, just put them down. Yes, the 17-year old as well.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I am appalled at the individuals in this thread who think a hanging is too good for this scum.

You are too easy on them, living a life with no hope is a much better punishment. Death is an escape from the hell of an indian prison.

Sure, but last I checked there's never been a repeat offender from a noose. If you stream line the process unlike how we work it in the United States it's also cheaper. A win/win for society as a dangerous element is permanently removed, and they don't have to pay for a lifetime of shelter and feeding for said element.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Does it? Does it really?

So you think that they deserve:
1) Getting castrated
2) Spending a few weeks in the stocks in public, so people can ridicule them (amongst other things)
3) Have a public execution by burning

Is that what you think they deserve

Think with your dick, lose it. The first has a certain appeal indeed, and I've long advocated it for pedophiles. Being mocked by society isn't really that bad a punishment and the least of what they deserve. A burning would suck, but then I support the more merciful and ecofriendly hanging.

PhantomViper wrote:

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Does it? Does it really?

So you think that they deserve:
1) Getting castrated
2) Spending a few weeks in the stocks in public, so people can ridicule them (amongst other things)
3) Have a public execution by burning

Is that what you think they deserve

Yes, I think that they deserve all of those things.

They've beaten, raped, disembowelled and left a young women to die in the side of the road, some even say that they backed up the bus to run her over afterwards. If they are found guilty, which at this point seems likely considering that they have actual physical evidence on themselves and their defence seems to consist of "she was asking for it by behaving like a slut", then they deserve to die in the most brutally painful form known to man.

Let me stress this again for those in the cheap seats: they raped and murdered a young women in an extremely cruel and sadistic way for their ENTERTAINMENT! I'm sorry if that may shock some of you, but I don't consider "people" capable of doing such a thing as a fellow human being.

Exalted, their kind can gtfo from my species.

 grayshadow87 wrote:
I don't see much of a point in torturing someone who committed such a heinous crime. It doesn't solve the problem that the crime already happened, and it degrades the people actually committing the torture. I think life in a maximum security prison with no opportunity for parole would be more effective in this case, as:

a) Rapists are generally treated horrifically in prisons;
b) They have to go through horribly dehumanizing things every day for the rest of their lives;
c) (for those requiring some form of harsh punitive treatment) They are quite likely to suffer the same treatment in jail that they gave this woman.

That's just my opinion though.

My take on what you typed isthat you are for torture and sadistic treatment at the hands of other convicts, but by not having the punishment dealt out by agents of the government you absolve yourself of any associated guilt. You seem fine with the knowledge you would be condemning them to 'horribly dehumanizing things every day for the rest of their lives.'

I guess my take is if you are against 'horribly dehumanizing things' being done to prisoners by the gov't, you should be against those things being done by ANYONE, and be willing to commit the resources needed to not having the prison system be that way.

Personally I don't think prison should be pleasant, but I do think it should be safe. We are not supposed to be inflicting multiple years of gang rape and beatings. The punishment we are supposed to be inflicting is loss of freedom and some other civil rights (in the US you can lose the right to vote for example).

I'm all for kill or castrate and be done with it, but some of you folks advocating torture have some serious problems.

maybe we can compromise. No sedation during the procedure

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sure, they raped and killed a person. Why should their punishment be less worse than what they did to the victim?

Somehow I doubt, if the decision to commit a crime is calculated, that the severity of the punishment relative to the severity of the crime is considered.

I'll admit that in my anger, I'll advocate the most brutal punishments I can come up with for rapists. Of course, I'm also not a judge, and I'd be kicked off any jury involved in a rape case, so I'll never be the one in a position to impose that punishment.

But then, I knew a girl who was raped. One day she's bright and happy and fun... and the next she's dead inside. It's the most horrific thing I've ever seen. Part of me wishes I could get my hands on the guy who did it for just a couple minutes... and the rest of me is glad that I've never had the opportunity to do so. I'm not certain I like the part of me that could hate someone enough to inflict that much pain on another living thing.

I'm serious. Unles you've seen the 'before' and 'after' for yourself, you have no idea what being raped does to a person. Even just seeing the 'after' doesn't show the full tragedy of rape.

If we want a serious yet civilized punishment for rape, I'm all for firing squad - or even automated machine gun, if you're worried about dehumanizing the shooters. 100% effective in preventing him from raping again.

 dogma wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sure, they raped and killed a person. Why should their punishment be less worse than what they did to the victim?

Somehow I doubt, if the decision to commit a crime is calculated, that the severity of the punishment relative to the severity of the crime is considered.

If we lost all laws we would see the difference between having punishment vs no punishment.

The punishment needs to be adjusted to the crime.

No deterrent is 100% effective, but they do work.

 Grey Templar wrote:

If we lost all laws we would see the difference between having punishment vs no punishment.

The punishment needs to be adjusted to the crime.

No deterrent is 100% effective, but they do work.

Right, but this isn't a debate about the presence of absence of punishment. This is a debate about why punishment should be adjusted to the crime, and how it should be done.

I agree that punishment needs to be adjusted to the crime, largely due to considerations of utility*, but the infliction of equivalent suffering is nothing more than a mixture of schadenfreude and sadism.


*The punishment must, on average, outweigh the utility of the crime.

Sadsim? I'd hardly call it that. Sadisim is getting enjoyment from the infliction of pain on others. I might gain some satisfaction in knowing the criminal got his just reward but I'm not saying they should be tortured for the hell of it. They commited a crime and should recieve an appropriate punishment. Anything which is less suffering than their victim endured is not only wrong, its insulting to the dignity of the victim. It tells them that society really doesn't care about what happened to them.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I am appalled at the individuals in this thread who think a hanging is too good for this scum.

You are too easy on them, living a life with no hope is a much better punishment. Death is an escape from the hell of an indian prison.

Sure, but last I checked there's never been a repeat offender from a noose. If you stream line the process unlike how we work it in the United States it's also cheaper. A win/win for society as a dangerous element is permanently removed, and they don't have to pay for a lifetime of shelter and feeding for said element.

Inappropriate comment removed.
Reds8n


If you want to have due process you can't just kill them after the trial ends, that is how you kill the wrong people and I wouldn't be too surprised if there is one of the group that just watched and egged his friends on. While he deserves a harsh punishment does he deserve to die? The numbers of miscarriages of justice that happen in countries like India are a not negligible amount. There have been numerous cases of people being sentenced incorrectly and being released afterwards.

If you want to have due process and ensure that you're not putting the wrong person to death you have to wait ages to do it. Even when the case look dodgy and there was no way the person would be tried like an adult anywhere but texas it still takes 10 years to put someone to death. Death penalty costs so much more than life cos of the extra protection and treatment. So you fail on that.

There are numerous crimes that certain countries see as being as bad as rape: Uganda has some interesting ideas about homosexuality, Nigeria has - honest to god - witch trials. Etc etc
The taking of a life by the state devalues the meaning of life and fundamentally disagrees with the basic tenants that exist within any legal system, that someone can be redeemed. The a person can better themselves. If we truly think that anyone that murdered, raped or whatever deserves to die for it then society has taken a step back. Society doesn't work on the basis of wanting to be good for the sake of it, it is once again back to being good or we'll get you. It increases the force used by the state in every day life and no longer is it the soft threat of retribution it's the hard threat of death. Obey our society or die.
You may think that it's not an issue we live in democracies, look how quickly democracies decided to bring back internment and torture to deal with terrorism. If you really think that a democracy cannot do wrong you're misguided. All you need is one unjust law, a defendent who cannot meet the burden of proof required to exonerate or just happens to be a muslim accused of terrorism in the wrong part of the world and you will see an innocent death.

Well, I do not know much of New Dehli Culture. I know here this would be considered a reprehensible defense no lawyer would consider.
But may the idea then he even considered using it shows that they could possibly buy it.