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My point was it should have been a finished game before the Kickstarter.

They started with 2 sets of Fire in a box with regular chess rules. That would have not sold well at retail.

He already has 3 Chess Like games under his belt. I'm of the opinion that much, if not all of what we are getting was planned and pondered on before the Kickstarter Began, and is being used as stretch goals,, even though they were pretty much required for this project to be a commercial success.

If they'd included a fire and earth set at $25k, they'd have either had to start funding at $50k, or produce a weird "earth set is already included in the box but we're funding the earth set at $50k" goal. No-one would have liked what you're suggesting.

Look at the eight pages of complaining in the dreadball thread about "the ref isn't a real stretch goal". That's what would have happened.

This approach was crystal clear.

The alternative of having the opening goal at $50k.. well, who knows how that would have gone?* It would have taken 2 weeks to fund for starters and might have killed early enthusiasm since most backers will not pledge unless a project is already funded (one of the wonderful quirks of kickstarter!), it's why early birds exist and are so crucial, they get the campaign out of the "boring first bit" really quickly and generate some initial momentum.

As for the rules, a lot of stuff like different rules for different elements are in fact being added in at the request of backers and did not exist before the campaign started, so you can't just claim that those "should have already been done" when it wasn't something that was on the cards a month ago.

*Technically speaking, in the event of "providing everything at the start", the initial goal would have been $75k for all 4 different sets so that Knight backers can all get one of each.

High initial goal = no stretch goals = no excitement = dead project. You all saw what happened with gates of antares being entirely realistic with what it needed to launch the complete package at once. The kickstarter hype machine is a fickle beast, get it wrong and the project is dead.

Loka could easily have gone that way since it is a artsitic and cerebral product at its core rather than being about guns/explosions/zombies/ sports. Harder sell, especially when targeting the US market.

Whatever you say about this project, it certainly isn't poorly run, they knew they had a niche product, they knew the concerns about not getting all 4 sets and made an excellent move to address that.

I think with Mantic's other projects there is an expectation on their part that they will front a lot of the cash themselves to allow for lower initial stretch goals and also to allow for a lot of important stuff to be ready for visual media (e.g. 4 dreadball teams already sculpted and pro-painted, rulebook complete and playtested, board completed).

It's not just Mantic that do this to get Kickstarters going, Dreamforge took out traditional finance to supplement the KS money.

Loka is one of those rare kickstarters where the funding is basically paying for everything with no room for manoeuvre if it fails. The minis were sculpted in advance and rules dev/art was done in advance, but that's pretty much it.

I think Kroot is right. Sure they didn't need to make to other sets a stretch goal but it would lead to one dull, slow project!

 scarletsquig wrote:


High initial goal = no stretch goals = no excitement = dead project. You all saw what happened with gates of antares being entirely realistic with what it needed to launch the complete package at once. The kickstarter hype machine is a fickle beast, get it wrong and the project is dead.

This.

I think that's the least we've learned from GoA.

There should be a business-plan somewhere in Mantic's/Alessio's drawer on what the "real" end-product should be and what it'll cost to get there. And there should be a slow escalation of goals, stretch-goals and add-ons that'll make for a good, "entertaining" Kickstarter-campaign for the backers.

The two don't need to be - and in most cases shouldn't be - the same.

If you're looking for more "transparent" crowd-funding, one would likely be better off with sites that return equity (e.g. fundable,com; microventures.com; crowdcube.com, startupvalley.com, etc.. ), rather than consumer products to the "backers". Kickstarter.com just doesn't work that way.

I don't mind them stringing along extras and adding bolt on rules as they go.
I do mind them writing the bolt on rules as they go.

It's a creative verses practical mindset issue.

In any case, I've been in for an Early Bird since day 1.

More Models!

Update #18 · Mar. 20, 2013 ·
It seems we appear to be caught around the $75,000 – quite a yo-yo day!

Well, never fear – because we need to go past it again we’re introducing a new stretch goal full of sweet delicious freebies for you to sink your teeth into!

$77,500 – Pledge Level Upgrades!

You asked for it, you’ve got it – we’re going to be filling the Pledge Levels with more models!


If we hit $77,500 we’re going to be adding:

- All pledges of Rook ($25) and Bishop ($50): 4 Additional Pieces (Queen, Rook, Bishop, Knight) to accompany the 4 Free Pawns already included as part of your pledge!

- All pledges of King ($100) and above: 8 Additional Pieces including Queen, Rook, Bishop, Knight and 4 Pawns from the faction of your choice!

Calculator time – that makes Bishop ($50) 45 miniatures, and Knight ($100) worth over $220 with over 87 miniatures, dice, scenery and Power Cards!!

We think that’s a whole chunk of value - and even then we've got the campaign and new scenery coming as well!

They started with 2 sets of Fire in a box with regular chess rules. That would have not sold well at retail.

He already has 3 Chess Like games under his belt. I'm of the opinion that much, if not all of what we are getting was planned and pondered on before the Kickstarter Began, and is being used as stretch goals,, even though they were pretty much required for this project to be a commercial success.

i expect db was as well - there's always a trade-off between what we can do and what we'd like to do. the initial offering was what they could do - KS allows you to get to the point where you can everything you'd like to do, if you get enough funding.

 Black Nexus wrote:


i expect db was as well - there's always a trade-off between what we can do and what we'd like to do. the initial offering was what they could do - KS allows you to get to the point where you can everything you'd like to do, if you get enough funding.

True enough.

I wish they could raise another 10 Million or so and add a holographic Alessio-Chess-Computer-Opponent to play against to every copy of the game

I know mantic isn't exactly producing this, but when I'm still waiting on product from two kickstarters ago, it is a little frustrating to see them running yet another one.

Imagine how those doing CMON kickstarters are feeling...

I think Mantic know people are waiting, i think they're going as fast as they can. Ultimately tooling is a thread party thing, check out the Torment kickstarter video for instance... the video starts with "but hey, you only did a kickstarter recently and haven't delivered it yet - why another one?" The response? "The design team are done on the other game and it's with the development team now so we wanted to get them started on another project so they're not twiddling their thumbs."

Video is here if you want a look: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera

As far as we've been told, everythings pretty much sculpted for KIngs of War and with the toolmaker, so the team worked on DreadBall, which is waiting on the tooling as well (though broken down into smaller chunks so it can be released quicker). The design team haven't even touched LOKA (With the exception of a concept artist that's done some KS support) so they're probably working on something else. maybe Deadzone.

Hmm, guess double post...

new add-ons:


Also stretch goal has been hit... 8 new models in king, 4 in the Lower pledges.

Lovely Queen.

But are the 8 pieces for king or knight? the update says knight.

Knight and up I think, so king gets them too,

Queen is lovely, you're right.

Just broken another stretch goal as well, campaign system is funded. Now looking at new scenery:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/loka-the-world-of-fantasy-chess/posts/435240

Not long left now!

First post is all updated, check it out, lots of extra value has been added with 8 extra minis added with the last stretch goal.

Knight pledge level ($100) is pretty much $1/model at this point, once you factor in all the other stuff that comes with it. Very good deal!

Wow – today has been the second best day of the campaign so far – and with less than 24 hours left to go it’s showing no sign of slowing down.

We’re so close to hunting down the LOKApocalypse Bolt-on we’d thought we’d go ahead and announce the next stretch goal…

$100,000 – Elemental Dragon

LOKA is the world of Fantasy Chess – and no fantasy world is complete without a Dragon!

If we hit $100,000, we’ll be able to sculpt and produce the Elemental Dragon and Tower - this model will be available exclusively for our Kickstarter Backers to mark what has been a fantastic campaign, and of course you’ll get playable rules (or simply sub it in a replacement Rook!) for him as well included with your pledge!

Have at it guys - looking forwards to a great final run!

How much is the dragon?

I think it's a freebie if we make 100K

I would be delighted if we reached the dragon and could buy multiples.

it's an add-on... i reckon it'll be about 10-15 bucks given the price of the other exclusives.

$90k stretch has been hit, onwards to $100k for the dragon!

Nice, I hope it breaks 100K. Actually quite tempting at the end, like always . Now that all 4 sets are fully revealed, I like it a lot better. The piece designs make more sense- i.e., every piece of the same type has almost the exact same silhouette. I didn't get that before

You basically get everything with a $100 + $15 shipping pledge, right? With the only exception being this dragon, if it gets unlocked? Is the board that comes with it really large enough for a 4-player game, seems like it would need to be much bigger to go above 2 players?

Yep, you get everything at $100 pledge level.

Only exceptions are the dragon and the fifth element queen, which are KS exclusives, and $12 each.

The board it comes with is large enough for 4 players, you turn it over and the board has the 4-player board printed on the reverse (still large enough to work with the minis).

If you want an even larger game there is the LOKApocalypse rules which uses 4 boards placed edge-to-edge for massive games with loads of minis.

Is there a pic of the 5th element queen in this thread? I must've missed it...

^ There's a pic of it on this page!

Multipass. :p

Oh, I didn't realize that's what that was! Despite the title...

Only 2K needed with 3 hours left to go, so the dragon should be a slam dunk!

Next stretch goal will be the Loka Compedium at $105k - an art book, model gallery and developer diary for the game.. this one was a request from backers.

Some new pics of the bishops up too, they look awesome!

Dragon is a $12 Add-on

800$ and 120 minutes left for that dragon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
100k streachgoal reached!

And that's a wrap!

$104,172 total, not bad at all, it got the job done in terms of funding a really solid product and a few "for fun" extras.

Congratulations to everyone who backed it! I will pick mine up when they go to retailers. Now on to Deadzone the reason why I did not back this lol!

As a final thank you I have just spoken with Ronnie and we’re sure the Paypal money and post pledges will carry us over the $105,000 – so we are pleased to say that every backer will get the digital copy of the compendium!!

That's nice!

We’re into the last 10 mins and we want to end on a high so we’ve made a brand new add-on available to finish with!

The Ronnie Mantis Warrior figure is now available to add-on to your pledge for $12!

We want to know what you think this character should be – a knight or a bishop? Let us know in the comments and have your say!

p.s. – anyone that missed the Mantis sculpt will be able to add it on in the survey, sorry it hit so late – but time flies when you are having fun

I didn't see any art, just the text, but that sounds interesting