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 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
You need to! I turn 30 this year! Play SW, get excited! Wooooo!

Seriously, I love this hobby, everything about it, even the Ultramarines. Just wish I got to play more often! Maybe I'll do up some Ultramarines as allies. Look at it like they need supplemental training from the SW, so they can learn what being a Space Marine is all about. FOR RUSS!

Hah. I admire your youthful exuberance.

I do love the background though, more so than the game I think. I have probably spent far more hours immersed in the books than playing the games, and I am a big fan of the Ultramarines for their stoic determination and their moral fiber, I also think Gulliman is the best primarch because along with Sanguinius he seems like the only genuinely pleasant bloke...

But thats a whole nother thread right?

Youthful exuberance

I'm also really digging the background. Just getting started though with SW and a bit if the HH stuff. What are some good reads for Ultramarine lore?

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
Youthful exuberance

I'm also really digging the background. Just getting started though with SW and a bit if the HH stuff. What are some good reads for Ultramarine lore?

Try Know No Fear, a HH book.

There is one detail that I take issue with, but it is unrelated to the portrayal of the Ultramarines, which I really liked.

Also, I too prefer the background to the game itself.

I assume the HH books are intended to be read chronologically, or is that not so?

Not necessarily, no. Know No Fear is fairly standalone.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
I assume the HH books are intended to be read chronologically, or is that not so?

Yes and No...You can read it standalone, but trust me, first get a glimpse on first five (or six???) books - It's well worth to know characters which are introduced....
IMHO only thing pissed me in KNF is that are so many cardboard characters (UM )....And a lot of them get gaked....

P.S. IMHO Absolutely read the first triology before reading ANY others...

That's been the plan so far. Granted, I can't speak on many of the books but so far many characters seem very distant and one dimensional in the BL books. I imagine that wouldn't do much for public opinion of the Ultramarines.

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
That's been the plan so far. Granted, I can't speak on many of the books but so far many characters seem very distant and one dimensional in the BL books. I imagine that wouldn't do much for public opinion of the Ultramarines.

Guilliman was an edgy coolguy though.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Guilliman was an edgy coolguy though.

Yep...Lorgar with his emo outbursts was cool too...
Funny thing : UM nbr 23441. with a hard remembering name died;
ME:*confused face* Who the hell was that guy, and why did author named him?

Also, cool thing was that the whole book was writen in present tense...

 Void__Dragon wrote:
(Space Wolves, Blood Angels), or crippling paranoia that has made them abandon their duties to the Imperium to fulfill their own secret agenda (Dark Angels).

I'm laughing, not 'cause this sentence have sense, but 'cause is clearly written by a hater.
SW and BA mindless? Ah! Please, SW Codex: "Though they appear like barbarians, the Wolves are far from it." Russ was a great tactician. Not good as, IDK, Horus or Perturabo, but he wasn't mindless like YOU suggest.
And Logan Grimnar himself is a good tactician. Why mindless? 'Cause they can fall to the Wulfen curse?
And the BA? The only reason you could say they're mindless is 'cause of the Black Rage/ Red Thirst. And still, they are great (chirurgical deep strike, yeah a mindless chapter could really do that... puh-lease).
DA paranoic... yeah, I must give you this.

So, what I'm saying? Simply that you can't participate to a debate and being so partial.

Sometimes, really, I think people should simply turn off their pc...

I don't mind someone else's opinion on the Wolves or the Blood Angels or the Dark Angels (the latters I don't even play, so yeah), but being CLEARLY a hater is simply... I dunno... I think idiotic is the right word.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
I'm laughing, not 'cause this sentence have sense, but 'cause is clearly written by a hater.

I'm laughing, not because what you said made sense, but because you clearly took only a cursory glance at what I wrote without putting forth the effort to actually comprehend it and suffered a knee-jerk reaction, jumping to conclusions and arguing points that were never made.

SW and BA mindless? Ah! Please, SW Codex: "Though they appear like barbarians, the Wolves are far from it." Russ was a great tactician. Not good as, IDK, Horus or Perturabo, but he wasn't mindless like YOU suggest.

I was referring to those who suffer from the Wulfen Curse, specifically. You know, the werewolf curse that renders Space Wolves into mindless, mutated berserkers, with the seeming exception of the 13th Company.

And Logan Grimnar himself is a good tactician.

True, he is among the most capable Chapter Masters in the Imperium. Bjorn I'd argue is even better than that.

Why mindless? 'Cause they can fall to the Wulfen curse?

No, they're mindless when they do fall to the Wulfen Curse, they are not mindless because they can. They are mindless if they do.

And the BA? The only reason you could say they're mindless is 'cause of the Black Rage/ Red Thirst.

Yeah, you know, those two genetic flaws that make the Blood Angels into nigh-mindless berserkers, who will wade into battle without a care for self-preservation or, in the case of the Red Thirst, care for whether or not they are murdering friend or foe.

There is a stigma against the Flesh Tearers for a reason.

And still, they are great (chirurgical deep strike, yeah a mindless chapter could really do that... puh-lease).

Of course they are great, they are one of the most accomplished chapters.

DA paranoic... yeah, I must give you this.

Of course you do, because like everything else I have stated, it is true.

So, what I'm saying? Simply that you can't participate to a debate and being so partial.

To quote Lorgar, "So we are speaking in hypocrisies today?"

Sometimes, really, I think people should simply turn off their pc...

I am right you are wrong.

I don't mind someone else's opinion on the Wolves or the Blood Angels or the Dark Angels (the latters I don't even play, so yeah), but being CLEARLY a hater is simply... I dunno... I think idiotic is the right word.

Well I guess that is why you took no issue with what I said about the Dark Angels. It is you who are biased in this. Not I.

Also, refrain from insulting the intelligence of fellow posters, especially if you are making a huge leap to an unsound and frankly erroneous conclusion while doing so.

People hate Ultramarines for a very simple reason.

Back in the day, the original Space Marine chapters were made-up by nerdy game-designers, not all of whom were totally serious about the fluff behind their creations, hence the notorious Rainbow Warriors, who were a direct jab at the sexual preference of Space Marines. And why there are multiple chapters named some sort of "angel". When I say "nerdy" I mean like 1980's nerdy which was a very un-cool thing to be.

Back in the late 80's, the words "Ultra" and "Mega" were marketing terms used to sell things, kinda like before 2001 putting the number "2000" behind something would jazz it up. Ultra was like, totally lame, ya know? Like, fer sure. Naming your chapter "Ultra" marines was pretentious, lame, and considered very un-original at the time. The reason there are 1000 chapters is so gamers wouldn't feel like they had to pick "Space Sharks" or "Mantis Warriors" or any of the lame pre-generated chapter/paint schemes.

Then you have the UM with a Frenchie for a Primarch? I could be wrong, but I think it is still globally considered politically correct and non-racist to hate all things French. I remember a lot of jokes in the early 90's about how do you identify Ultramarine Rhinos on the battlefield? They're the ones with the white flags on the antenna.

This is kinda why I don't like the whole "every chapter is decended from Primarch X" fluff. It inhibits my creativity. Of course, there are the two missing legions....

I can remember Ice Planet 2002 from the 90's Space Lego. I always found that name kind of odd. Also try reading a comic from 1970 about this year. Accodring to Superman we should all have waterheads (heads four times our sizes now or the size of the big-headed people Gordon Ramsay quarrels with). According to Donald Duck we would have jumpy cars (physics can't be a strongpoint for drawers as they would be endlessly uncomfortable). When it came to the Ultras I always thought they were named after whitewash.

The Primarch provides a general guideline. F.ex. wanting to make a chapter based of the Imperial Fists, make them into unsmiling hardliners with a drab but sensible approach to combat.

I understand the whole Primarch thing and why they did it. Eventually, they had to reconcile all the fluff material. I just wish the Squats hadn't been obliterated.

Honestly I think people know that deep down following a set of rules with out taking into account person responsibility and judgement to the matter at hand is imperfect itself and possibly a bigger flaw then most other chapters have. It's clearly not the way anyone would choose to be or choose anyone else to be. It's not honorable in anyway. It's blind, simple, and relatively weak way to live. People can respect someone more flawed who think freely with their own judgement over someone who blindly follows rules laid out before them without thinking that those rules may be static and not be able to encompass all situations. At least that's what it is for me. Though I don't hate them, just not my fav's

I think calling them perfect is crazy. Their blind following is one of the most gigantic flaws of any chapter. The black thirst can be dealt with , but you can deal with a flaw that is that deep seeded in the entire chapter that would would turn each other in for not following the codex in a situation where it was wrong or put them in uneeded danger. They are far from perfect, and even if it's not consciously recognized it's in a way that people do notice and inherently don't respect. Though their desire to be honorable and do right I think is the quality that redeems them. They mean well but missapply that meaning in my opinion.

I agree, that's very well stated. It's really only the Ultramarines themselves that refer to themselves as perfect, and try to spin their ovine nature and mentality into something good. A willingness to follow orders no question asked, no matter the danger is a good quality in a soldier, to a point. They pass that mark by far. They're the definition of amoral, Chaotic Good and it's my opinion and experience that general human nature abhors extremism in any way and prefers behavior that is middlewise.

Ultra smerfs are usually the starting go to army for most, so a lot of **** heads choose them and play them badly, then they complain about the army (Which has all the other space marines toys) being under powered and cry about it. Ultra marines can do almost everything better than most armies so people pick them and people who don't dislike them because they take/have whatever their army had that was special.

Slayer222 wrote:
Ultra smerfs are usually the starting go to army for most, so a lot of **** heads choose them and play them badly, then they complain about the army (Which has all the other space marines toys) being under powered and cry about it. Ultra marines can do almost everything better than most armies so people pick them and people who don't dislike them because they take/have whatever their army had that was special.

Someone sounds bitter, considering the fact they are pretty low on the SM power chart, not to mention they havn't really taken much, especially considering the other codex.

I'm not that bitter, just heard alot of people complaining (mostly from other spacemarine chapters)(some xenos) that whatever they have the smerfs have, i personally don't have a problem playing them and love packing lots of ap 3 . But this is basically what i hear and see people doing/complaining about.

The Ultramarines are the definition of Lawful Good Paladins pure and simple. That's boring for the common man, and their fans loving perfection are even worse.

My hate stems from the fact that Marneus Calger looks like a Gym Teacher, so I can't help but picture every Ultramarine as a stereotypical jock badguy from a 80s movie

"Do not ask why, rather, ask why not."

I don't hate them, they're awesome, love their colours and discipline and everything about them! < (Kind of contradicts my namesake because he hates their guts...but still.)

But you'd never see me field an army of them simply because they're too common in the sense that they're everywhere, when I walk in GW, I see them in the display cases, on the tables, and on tons of posters and books on the shelves.

I'd feel unimaginative if I did an army of them, it'd be like painting Black legion from the chaos legions.

2x210 wrote:
My hate stems from the fact that Marneus Calger looks like a Gym Teacher, so I can't help but picture every Ultramarine as a stereotypical jock badguy from a 80s movie

So you think Calgar looks like this :

He looks like Helga's dad from Hey Arnold to me albeit with lighter hair.

Calgar looks like Mr. Woodcock. Haha.

 DarthMarko wrote:

2x210 wrote:
My hate stems from the fact that Marneus Calger looks like a Gym Teacher, so I can't help but picture every Ultramarine as a stereotypical jock badguy from a 80s movie

So you think Calgar looks like this :

???

Judging by that flag on your profile you most likely didn't go to high school in 1970s Alabama, but if your recollection of a gym teacher is a mullet wearing dude who looks like an 80s wrestler, than perhaps you did.

This is how they looked in 80's in my country (well, probably not like this - but mullet was there )

Give me a pic of your sterotype please.....

I will do you one better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Woodcock Calgar in the flesh.