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@xraytango - I'll not dispute it if you really believe that the Salamander have Polynesian themes, but IMHO, I don't think I can fully accept it until you were to give a reference for where you got the information - If you did I'd gladly support the notion. Aside from simply saying 'Rick Priestly may have used Polynesian or Greek themes', are there any concrete sources that explicitly say this? Just to cite my own posts, all the above I posted is from the latest 'Tome of Fire' trilogy and subsequent links with Greek culture is made with my own knowledge of the Greeks.

xraytango wrote:I've been collecting and digesting GW for 26 years, I'm pretty sure I know what I am talking about.

Really? Is there any need to throw this in? I wasn't disputing that you know what you're talking about, I was simply participating in a scholarly debate and presenting an opposing point of view. I haven't been into 40K for that long, I'll admit I've only really been into it for 2 years or so, but I read a lot of the lore and publications of both Black Library and Forgeworld, so I'm not a complete dullard myself - I'm just drawing conclusions from the abundance of evidence I find in the new books. It's really not a competition of 'I've been into 40K longer than you have'.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make anyone feel as though they were a dullard, and I suppose it was a bit , okay a lot, pedantic.

I can see there being two sides of the Salamander stor because I do see the Greek influence, but I also see the similarities to many volcanic island cultures (except Iceland and Greenland, those are quite clearly Space Wolves, no doubt about that.) so I''m not going to argue it any longer.

In the end we all want to read a good story in a setting we enjoy and until the powers that be hire us to write their stories, we will undoubtedly continue to have discussions like this due to such a great deal of information that is out there that we may be aware as well as unaware of. (wow that's a long sentence)

Some information may reinforce or contradict that which has come before, but really it is our game, our armies, and our hobby, we can make up our own Chapters and Legions.
We can paint them as we see fit, we can write our own fluff.

That's all I have to say about that.

 Psienesis wrote:

Those are birth defects and other "freaks", not previous living examples of human sub-types.

I never claimed they were alive or that they were human sub-types. I was just showing that mutation happens but doesn't last. So that's my argument for lack of future variety.

What you said was:

Once upon a time Humans had striped hair, spotted hair, wildly long eyebrows, purple eyes and many other variations of pigments and genetic "flaws".

Giants and Hobbits existed in the ancient past (see National Geographic). As did trolls and ogres (see Da Vinci's grotesques).

People also had horns, eyestocks, scales, and other odd external bone growths (see Mutter Museum, Pennsylvania).

There would be a much wider range of genetics if we hadn't had events like the Black Death and WW2.

... implying that these people bred true, and that one guy with eyestalks meant that he came from an entire culture of people with eyestalks, which is a complete fabrication.

I didn't imply anything. You're drawing that conclusion yourself. Could you please quote where I said there was an entire race of people with eye stocks?

Oh you can't... cause I didn't.

But there is a race of people with large feet and two toes. It used to be in the World Records. Though I wouldn't call them a true race. More of a dominant family gene. But there is a whole tribe of them.

So again, please don't put words in my mouth. I know you like to argue with me for arguments sake, Psienesis.

Uh, sure...

Once upon a time Humans had striped hair, spotted hair, wildly long eyebrows, purple eyes and many other variations of pigments and genetic "flaws".

Giants and Hobbits existed in the ancient past (see National Geographic). As did trolls and ogres (see Da Vinci's grotesques).

People also had horns, eyestocks, scales, and other odd external bone growths (see Mutter Museum, Pennsylvania).

There would be a much wider range of genetics if we hadn't had events like the Black Death and WW2.

.. either you're simply stringing sentences together following some stream-of-consciousness model, where what is stated in one sentence has no bearing or effect on what is stated in the next...

... or you are implying that the Black Death and WW2 somehow prevented us from having people with eye-stalks and spotted hair.

 Psienesis wrote:
.. either you're simply stringing sentences together following some stream-of-consciousness model, where what is stated in one sentence has no bearing or effect on what is stated in the next....

As with anything I post here, or on any other media (FB ect.) this is correct.

 DeffDred wrote:

I never claimed they were alive or that they were human sub-types. I was just showing that mutation happens but doesn't last. So that's my argument for lack of future variety.

This is simply inaccurate. Mutations happen frequently and, in fact, are one of the most important factors in explaining genetic diversity. The reason we are different from other apes is mutation, this is also why we are different to other animals and animals are different to plants and so on. Mutations that are beneficial are selected for and thus stabilise in a population, therefore they do in fact last.

 Psienesis wrote:


... or you are implying that the Black Death and WW2 somehow prevented us from having people with eye-stalks and spotted hair.

This thread went south real quick.

Still waiting to see what Polynesian themes are mentioned in regards the Salamanders.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Their black skin is also as a result of a geneseed mutation and its reaction to the radiation on Nocturne. The native population is actually white, paler than the most reclusive nerd.

Really? On a hot world with radiation? I thought the natives were at least tanned. But even if the natives were "black" the point is moot when they become salamanders because their skin becomes coal black anyway.

cadbren wrote:Still waiting to see what Polynesian themes are mentioned in regards the Salamanders.

Yup, I'll second that, however I have to apologise to xraytango, as perhaps I too was a bit abrupt with my last post.

xraytango wrote:I can see there being two sides of the Salamander stor because I do see the Greek influence, but I also see the similarities to many volcanic island cultures (except Iceland and Greenland, those are quite clearly Space Wolves, no doubt about that.) so I''m not going to argue it any longer.

In the end we all want to read a good story in a setting we enjoy and until the powers that be hire us to write their stories, we will undoubtedly continue to have discussions like this due to such a great deal of information that is out there that we may be aware as well as unaware of. (wow that's a long sentence)

Some information may reinforce or contradict that which has come before, but really it is our game, our armies, and our hobby, we can make up our own Chapters and Legions.
We can paint them as we see fit, we can write our own fluff.

That's all I have to say about that.

I still have my reservations on the Polynesian theme, but, in respect for your own pledge, I'll not argue any more on the matter as my previous posts state all I want to say on it.

 DeffDred wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
.. either you're simply stringing sentences together following some stream-of-consciousness model, where what is stated in one sentence has no bearing or effect on what is stated in the next....

As with anything I post here, or on any other media (FB ect.) this is correct.

Well then, to deconstruct your statements line by line then...

1: "Once upon a time Humans had striped hair, spotted hair, wildly long eyebrows, purple eyes and many other variations of pigments and genetic "flaws". "

We can still have purple eyes, if you have certain degrees of albinism. True violet or purple eyes have never existed in the human genome. Variations in hair color is natural. However, you won't find a "tiger stripes" or "leopard spots" happening naturally as a genetic expression, though certain nutritional deficiencies can cause such effects. Long eyebrows is not particularly uncommon amongst certain ethnic sets even in the modern era.

2: "Giants and Hobbits existed in the ancient past (see National Geographic). As did trolls and ogres (see Da Vinci's grotesques)"

Gigantism and dwarfism still happen today. They are genetic abnormalities, not common examples of human genetic expression. People of certain ethnicities also happen to frequently be above or below the averages of other ethnicities. Having a group of people in a limited geographical area who have little to no outside influence, or outside genetics introduced into the breeding pool, will ensure that these genetic traits continue to be passed on to future generations. This, though, does not make "giants" or "hobbits", it just makes people who are very tall or very short.

Da Vinci's grotesques are a mix of his documentation of medical maladies (like gout, birth defects, bone spurs, and similar conditions) or just random doodles he kept in a number of notebooks. In the main, and in the majority, these drawings are flights of fancy, not anything related to reality. One specific example is five people he didn't like, so he drew them ugly. They have as much bearing on reality as some middle-schooler's Dungeons and Dragons sketches on his notebook.

3: "There would be a much wider range of genetics if we hadn't had events like the Black Death and WW2"

With nearly 600 years between these events, and WW2 killing only 60 million people (less than 3% of the world's population at the time), the effect these events have on human genetic expression is conjectural, at best, specious at worst. What's more, the Black Plague didn't affect much of Africa, northern Asia, the Siberian Peninsula, or the Pacific theater, which is often the source of many "variant" genetic strains.

The Black Death only effected portions of the world at any one time.

Sure, it did cull a large amount of Europe's population, but unless these hypothetical variations were for some reason more vulnerable to the plague such an event would cull those genes evenly with what we have today.

Bubonic Plague did eventually cover the entire globe, but many hundreds of years later and not at the same time as it ravaged Europe and Asia.


Any abnormalities that there may be evidence for are just that, abnormalities.

Hell, in some parts of the world the Black Death is still a threat. Not on the same scale as in 1348, but it's still alive and kicking. Fortunately, because IIRC it's a bacterial strain, not viral, we have developed a cure or preventative for it, although I can't remember which.

IIRC a regimen of antibiotics is good enough if caught early on.

And an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Basic sanitation.


And IIRC it attacks the body in a similar way to the AIDS virus. I seem to remember a documentary about it that mentioned that people whose ancestors survived the Bubonic Plague had some resistance to the virus and that the connection was a promising lead to a potential cure.

I've not heard that, but it'd be interesting if true, as I've also never heard of a bacterial infection giving resistance to a viral infection, but I'm not going to discount it, either.

Its not the bacterial infection giving resistance, its an evolutionary selection pressure. The receptors that HIV attacks are the same ones that were involved in Plague. People who had mutant receptors were resistant to plague, survived and passed on the mutant receptors. Mutations in this same receptor help in HIV resistance.

This is therefore a case of people evolving to be resistant to one threat being resistant to another.

Yay I get to talk microbes on Dakka!

Why is this such an issue for people? Would it really be so terrible if they were all Caucasian?

cadbren wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:


... or you are implying that the Black Death and WW2 somehow prevented us from having people with eye-stalks and spotted hair.

This thread went south real quick.

Still waiting to see what Polynesian themes are mentioned in regards the Salamanders.

So getting back on topic besides the genetic and viral discussions...
I've been out of the game for years and come back to see now that the Salamanders are obsidian black and possible Polynesian themes. I remembered the Salamanders having skin similar to that of central Africans today. I hadn't linked the Pacific rim of volcanoes with Nocturne, and that makes sense, yet Nocturne's population live underground, unlike Polynesians. Also, usually GW likes to give chapters related to certain ethnicities names related to their themes (SW, WS, BA). I guess I would expect the Salamanders to have Polynesian names.

Korm wrote:
Why is this such an issue for people? Would it really be so terrible if they were all Caucasian?

Yeah it would. It is immersion breaking for many, including myself, to have everyone one ethnicity. Further it is really racist to make everyone Caucasian, more so because Caucasians are in the more powerful positions surrounding the hobby, due to problems with societal racism.

This is a really complicated topic, however and one I'm only an amateur at studying, genetics is my speciality not social science and racism is a particularly difficult subject to tackle anyway. If you don't see why its a problem I would suggest looking into some reading on racism if you are genuinely interested in the answer.

Drager wrote:

Korm wrote:
Why is this such an issue for people? Would it really be so terrible if they were all Caucasian?

Yeah it would. It is immersion breaking for many, including myself, to have everyone one ethnicity. Further it is really racist to make everyone Caucasian, more so because Caucasians are in the more powerful positions surrounding the hobby, due to problems with societal racism.

This is a really complicated topic, however and one I'm only an amateur at studying, genetics is my speciality not social science and racism is a particularly difficult subject to tackle anyway. If you don't see why its a problem I would suggest looking into some reading on racism if you are genuinely interested in the answer.

It's an issue since the Imperium is the incredibly xenophobic entity that it is. When you read the HH novels about how the Imperium wiped out civilizations because they didn't "align with the Imperial Truth", well that's ethnic cleansing taken to another level we can't imagine. Making this Imperium of paranoia and hate that kills anybody who disagrees with them all white guys does not help the hobby at all...

 Flanker wrote:

Drager wrote:

Korm wrote:
Why is this such an issue for people? Would it really be so terrible if they were all Caucasian?

Yeah it would. It is immersion breaking for many, including myself, to have everyone one ethnicity. Further it is really racist to make everyone Caucasian, more so because Caucasians are in the more powerful positions surrounding the hobby, due to problems with societal racism.

This is a really complicated topic, however and one I'm only an amateur at studying, genetics is my speciality not social science and racism is a particularly difficult subject to tackle anyway. If you don't see why its a problem I would suggest looking into some reading on racism if you are genuinely interested in the answer.

It's an issue since the Imperium is the incredibly xenophobic entity that it is. When you read the HH novels about how the Imperium wiped out civilizations because they didn't "align with the Imperial Truth", well that's ethnic cleansing taken to another level we can't imagine. Making this Imperium of paranoia and hate that kills anybody who disagrees with them all white guys does not help the hobby at all...

Well, the man at the top may very well have been Turkic, so there's that. Ultimately I don't see the problem there.

When the Imperium is smiting other human cultures left and right, that isn't 'ethnic cleansing', it is just taking out a faction that was opposing their objectives. When you also take into account that those civilizations also let in actual space aliens into them, it kinda makes it hard to keep up an idea of actual discrimination here. It essentially just boils down to Space Men killing Green Men. Or, in the case of the Interax, conservatives killing hippies.

I hardly see why it's a problem why we don't have that many coloured people in Warhammer 40K, it doesn't seem to be a problem in Warhammer Fantasy where the harbingers of all that is evil are, in order, Scandinavians, Slavic-Turkic facsimiles and Mongols. And I dunno about you, but I never saw Norwegians or Kazakhs boycotting GW products.

That being said, White Scars are apparently meant to be a Mongolic type deal. Maybe they did get some flak over the Kurgans and made these guys to show their cultural sensitivity or something. Maybe that's also why Space Wolves didn't fall to Chaos.

They're not all 'opposing their objectives'. There are instances in the HH novels about meeting civilizations that are peaceful yet reject the Imperial Truth. Yes, some civilizations lived with aliens but, they were living peacefully. It's not ethnic cleansing because they're not killing them based on their ethnicity and that was my mistake for saying it like that. They're killing millions and sometimes billions because they disagree with their beliefs, which is just as bad as ethnic cleansing.

 Flanker wrote:
They're not all 'opposing their objectives'. There are instances in the HH novels about meeting civilizations that are peaceful yet reject the Imperial Truth. Yes, some civilizations lived with aliens but, they were living peacefully. It's not ethnic cleansing because they're not killing them based on their ethnicity and that was my mistake for saying it like that. They're killing millions and sometimes billions because they disagree with their beliefs, which is just as bad as ethnic cleansing.

Pretty much every major empire, white or coloured, has done this on various scales. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Essentially, given that the Imperium's objective at the time was the unification of the entire human race, saying you don't want to be a part of their empire basically is opposing their objectives.

Korm wrote:

 Flanker wrote:
They're not all 'opposing their objectives'. There are instances in the HH novels about meeting civilizations that are peaceful yet reject the Imperial Truth. Yes, some civilizations lived with aliens but, they were living peacefully. It's not ethnic cleansing because they're not killing them based on their ethnicity and that was my mistake for saying it like that. They're killing millions and sometimes billions because they disagree with their beliefs, which is just as bad as ethnic cleansing.

Pretty much every major empire, white or coloured, has done this on various scales. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Essentially, given that the Imperium's objective at the time was the unification of the entire human race, saying you don't want to be a part of their empire basically is opposing their objectives.

So, just saying "Hey, we see what you're doing, but we'd rather live on our own and not be a part of your empire" is grounds for the extermination of a civilization? I realize most empires have done similar actions, but that doesn't atone for the atrocities committed.

 Flanker wrote:

Korm wrote:

 Flanker wrote:
They're not all 'opposing their objectives'. There are instances in the HH novels about meeting civilizations that are peaceful yet reject the Imperial Truth. Yes, some civilizations lived with aliens but, they were living peacefully. It's not ethnic cleansing because they're not killing them based on their ethnicity and that was my mistake for saying it like that. They're killing millions and sometimes billions because they disagree with their beliefs, which is just as bad as ethnic cleansing.

Pretty much every major empire, white or coloured, has done this on various scales. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Essentially, given that the Imperium's objective at the time was the unification of the entire human race, saying you don't want to be a part of their empire basically is opposing their objectives.

So, just saying "Hey, we see what you're doing, but we'd rather live on our own and not be a part of your empire" is grounds for the extermination of a civilization? I realize most empires have done similar actions, but that doesn't atone for the atrocities committed.

(shrug) It's not like they can just say "oh, that's fine." when this sort of thing comes up. It ruins the image of strength that Empires have to project in order to make sure that other cultures do join them, thus avoiding more bloodshed. Making themselves seem weak also makes it more likely they'll be attacked by some up-and-coming Xenos faction or what-have-you.

I'm not trying to justify this sort of thing, mind. But this is essentially how it is for any faction with an imperialistic agenda. That being said, I hate empires. I prefer raiders.

Korm wrote:

 Flanker wrote:

Korm wrote:

 Flanker wrote:
They're not all 'opposing their objectives'. There are instances in the HH novels about meeting civilizations that are peaceful yet reject the Imperial Truth. Yes, some civilizations lived with aliens but, they were living peacefully. It's not ethnic cleansing because they're not killing them based on their ethnicity and that was my mistake for saying it like that. They're killing millions and sometimes billions because they disagree with their beliefs, which is just as bad as ethnic cleansing.

Pretty much every major empire, white or coloured, has done this on various scales. I'm not sure what the problem is.

Essentially, given that the Imperium's objective at the time was the unification of the entire human race, saying you don't want to be a part of their empire basically is opposing their objectives.

So, just saying "Hey, we see what you're doing, but we'd rather live on our own and not be a part of your empire" is grounds for the extermination of a civilization? I realize most empires have done similar actions, but that doesn't atone for the atrocities committed.

(shrug) It's not like they can just say "oh, that's fine." when this sort of thing comes up. It ruins the image of strength that Empires have to project in order to make sure that other cultures do join them, thus avoiding more bloodshed. Making themselves seem weak also makes it more likely they'll be attacked by some up-and-coming Xenos faction or what-have-you.

I'm not trying to justify this sort of thing, mind. But this is essentially how it is for any faction with an imperialistic agenda. That being said, I hate empires. I prefer raiders.

Alright, I gotcha. I thought you were agreeing with it. All good!

To be honest, all respect to the OP, but questions like this shouldn't really be asked for a couple of reasons: A) Because the hobby gives you the choice to paint them any which way and B) Because ethnicity will be massively diverse anyway in 40K, it's probably better to ask not what Ethnicity Chapters are, but rather what theme did GW intend for them, hence cutting out the intense and rather personal arguments.

However, having said that, I'll contradict my own post and say ethnicity should be discussed as people need to feel welcomed regardless of their history, grouping, physicality etc, but it's possible that the internet is not really the most conducive format for debating in on such an issue as it doesn't allow people to convey their message fully as text does not display tonal inflections, body language etc.

Flanker wrote:'ve been out of the game for years and come back to see now that the Salamanders are obsidian black and possible Polynesian themes. I remembered the Salamanders having skin similar to that of central Africans today. I hadn't linked the Pacific rim of volcanoes with Nocturne, and that makes sense, yet Nocturne's population live underground, unlike Polynesians. Also, usually GW likes to give chapters related to certain ethnicities names related to their themes (SW, WS, BA). I guess I would expect the Salamanders to have Polynesian names.

So, @Flanker - The issue is that in the original concept of the Salamanders, Rick Priestly labelled them as Black. Not Obsidian Black, not African Black (I do apologise if that label is offensive, but I'm just trying to clarify it). Just Black. This was assumed, at the time to mean African black and hence the majority of people, including 'Eavy Metal painted them African black. However, GW later clarified the issue by saying that their gene-seed has a small mutation, as many other Chapters do, which reacts with high levels of radiation on Nocturne (Their home-world) to produce pitch-black skin. This is hence automatically assumed to be a racist move by GW to eradicate black people's representation within 40K. They are also given burning red eyes as part of the mutation which people find -y, but I guess it's just to reinforce the fire theme.

IMHO, I don't mind it - it's kind of ambiguous for all ethnicities, but I can recognise that others will feel segregated. But seeing as I got into 40K only 2 years ago, I'm gonna get a ton of 'what the feth do you know' type comments.

On the subject of Polynesian theme - well we've debated that one. Take a look back at the last page to get the full debate there: A couple of us reckon the theme is more Greek based, others think Polynesian - make your own mind up.

Just a little word on Empires. Now I'm not going to dispute all that's bad with Empires - assimilating territories against the will of others, imposing cultural changes, removing so called 'undesirable' peoples and re-populating with colonists - Yep, that's by no means a civilised route to take. However, it saddens me that sometimes people forget that Empires can also bring great benefits and wondrous advantages. You can probably guess what's coming next, judging by which country I come from, but the British Empire, which admittedly was the perpetrator of many of the actions I've listed above - taking territory, imposing cultural change, removing native peoples (the Aboriginal peoples, the poor Tanzanians who we literally hunted to death :( - there is NO excuse for that action.), however, it's a bit narrow minded to forget all the benefits we brought as well - a fair judiciary system, a greater sense of equality, more advance infrastructure, a fairer governmental system, advances both technologically, medically and socially. The British Empire also brought near global peace to the world in the era of Pax Britannia, an era in which the British ruthlessly abolished concepts such as slavery and piracy.

I'll not say the British Empire was 100% great for everyone - it most certainly wasn't, but it did help in some ways to promote a fairer world. Our world may not be 100% equal now, but I reckon if it wasn't for the European Empires of the 18th-20th centuries, then it would be a whole lot worse. Possibly I'm just biased because I'm proud of my nation, but there's pro's and con's to everything, even Empires.

 Warpig1815 wrote:

Flanker wrote:'ve been out of the game for years and come back to see now that the Salamanders are obsidian black and possible Polynesian themes. I remembered the Salamanders having skin similar to that of central Africans today. I hadn't linked the Pacific rim of volcanoes with Nocturne, and that makes sense, yet Nocturne's population live underground, unlike Polynesians. Also, usually GW likes to give chapters related to certain ethnicities names related to their themes (SW, WS, BA). I guess I would expect the Salamanders to have Polynesian names.

So, @Flanker - The issue is that in the original concept of the Salamanders, Rick Priestly labelled them as Black. Not Obsidian Black, not African Black (I do apologise if that label is offensive, but I'm just trying to clarify it). Just Black. This was assumed, at the time to mean African black and hence the majority of people, including 'Eavy Metal painted them African black. However, GW later clarified the issue by saying that their gene-seed has a small mutation, as many other Chapters do, which reacts with high levels of radiation on Nocturne (Their home-world) to produce pitch-black skin. This is hence automatically assumed to be a racist move by GW to eradicate black people's representation within 40K. They are also given burning red eyes as part of the mutation which people find -y, but I guess it's just to reinforce the fire theme.

IMHO, I don't mind it - it's kind of ambiguous for all ethnicities, but I can recognise that others will feel segregated. But seeing as I got into 40K only 2 years ago, I'm gonna get a ton of 'what the feth do you know' type comments.

On the subject of Polynesian theme - well we've debated that one. Take a look back at the last page to get the full debate there: A couple of us reckon the theme is more Greek based, others think Polynesian - make your own mind up.

Just a little word on Empires. Now I'm not going to dispute all that's bad with Empires - assimilating territories against the will of others, imposing cultural changes, removing so called 'undesirable' peoples and re-populating with colonists - Yep, that's by no means a civilised route to take. However, it saddens me that sometimes people forget that Empires can also bring great benefits and wondrous advantages. You can probably guess what's coming next, judging by which country I come from, but the British Empire, which admittedly was the perpetrator of many of the actions I've listed above - taking territory, imposing cultural change, removing native peoples (the Aboriginal peoples, the poor Tanzanians who we literally hunted to death :( - there is NO excuse for that action.), however, it's a bit narrow minded to forget all the benefits we brought as well - a fair judiciary system, a greater sense of equality, more advance infrastructure, a fairer governmental system, advances both technologically, medically and socially. The British Empire also brought near global peace to the world in the era of Pax Britannia, an era in which the British ruthlessly abolished concepts such as slavery and piracy.

I'll not say the British Empire was 100% great for everyone - it most certainly wasn't, but it did help in some ways to promote a fairer world. Our world may not be 100% equal now, but I reckon if it wasn't for the European Empires of the 18th-20th centuries, then it would be a whole lot worse. Possibly I'm just biased because I'm proud of my nation, but there's pro's and con's to everything, even Empires.

Like I said, that's what I recall, and that was years ago, so I'm probably forgetting some key information and other information has probably been added since I last really delved into Salamander fluff.
And you're right about the benefits empires can bring, I was trying to highlight the negative aspects many empries brought since I don't think many people draw similarities or really see how terrible the Imperium really is to be a part of. But, since you brought up how good some empires can be...

Quality... Just... Quality!

I wasn't disputing your point at all - Empires, the Imperium in particular, can be bad, I was just giving a different viewpoint, but as this is a bit OT we should probably not delve too deep into it Suffice it to say, I agree with you, and myself , 100%.

Drager wrote:

Korm wrote:
Why is this such an issue for people? Would it really be so terrible if they were all Caucasian?

Yeah it would. It is immersion breaking for many, including myself, to have everyone one ethnicity. Further it is really racist to make everyone Caucasian, more so because Caucasians are in the more powerful positions surrounding the hobby, due to problems with societal racism.

Caucasians dominate, you racist twit, because the hobby was created in a country whose native population is caucasian and the vast majority of the initial customer base was caucasian. As far as I know, the majority of the current customer base is still caucasian. So go take your anti-caucasian biases elsewhere.

cadbren wrote:

Drager wrote:

Korm wrote:
Why is this such an issue for people? Would it really be so terrible if they were all Caucasian?

Yeah it would. It is immersion breaking for many, including myself, to have everyone one ethnicity. Further it is really racist to make everyone Caucasian, more so because Caucasians are in the more powerful positions surrounding the hobby, due to problems with societal racism.

Caucasians dominate, you racist twit, because the hobby was created in a country whose native population is caucasian and the vast majority of the initial customer base was caucasian. As far as I know, the majority of the current customer base is still caucasian. So go take your anti-caucasian biases elsewhere.

You really don't get it do you?

Also are you calling me racist? Against Caucasians?