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I completely agree with Thud and approach the game the very same way. My brain has a thing for symmetry and themes. I usually take things in twos and threes, not necessarily for the redundancy, but for the symmetry.

In 5th it was an Entirely Assault oriented Nids army, a Driago Paladin Dreadknight Army, AV12 Spam Eldar, Flying Librarians BA.

Got out of the hobby for a while got back in and I have my Driago Paladin Dreadknight GK, New Wraith Eldar, my Suits/Drones Farsight Enclave.

I usually pick a theme, then optimize around that theme. Sometimes I can't bring myself to take a unit just because its good, ie Kroot for my Farsight Enclave.

Its how I enjoy the game and I often get labeled a power gamer, etc. I enjoy competitive play and enjoy playing other like minded people. My most enjoyable games are competitive in mindset and the real nail biters. It also fits my schedule as I play ~75% of my games in tournaments nowadays.

What makes me roll my eyes?

Pyrovores.

 Zagman wrote:
I completely agree with Thud and approach the game the very same way. My brain has a thing for symmetry and themes. I usually take things in twos and threes, not necessarily for the redundancy, but for the symmetry.

In 5th it was an Entirely Assault oriented Nids army, a Driago Paladin Dreadknight Army, AV12 Spam Eldar, Flying Librarians BA.

Got out of the hobby for a while got back in and I have my Driago Paladin Dreadknight GK, New Wraith Eldar, my Suits/Drones Farsight Enclave.

I usually pick a theme, then optimize around that theme. Sometimes I can't bring myself to take a unit just because its good, ie Kroot for my Farsight Enclave.

Its how I enjoy the game and I often get labeled a power gamer, etc. I enjoy competitive play and enjoy playing other like minded people. My most enjoyable games are competitive in mindset and the real nail biters. It also fits my schedule as I play ~75% of my games in tournaments nowadays.

When we "casual" gamers play (at least in my area) we are competative. But our lists arent optimized. Arguably in our opinion this makes the game far more strategical. Non optimized list vs non optimized list brings balance, story and competativeness all in one. And its something that takes a bit of effort to get to but theres no reason you cant have nail biting games without exploited combos. I for example have a nemisis necron player and whenever we fight its neck and neck the whole way through, people crowd around to watch its great fun. We have no fliers usually, his army is all necron warriors and 2 monoliths. Hardly optimized and lacks in many areas, but my list is the same. Makes for a great game. Balanced and non optimized in my opinion makes for a great narrative and competative game. Plus people dont deploy knowing they will get tabled which is also great.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
I completely agree with Thud and approach the game the very same way. My brain has a thing for symmetry and themes. I usually take things in twos and threes, not necessarily for the redundancy, but for the symmetry.

In 5th it was an Entirely Assault oriented Nids army, a Driago Paladin Dreadknight Army, AV12 Spam Eldar, Flying Librarians BA.

Got out of the hobby for a while got back in and I have my Driago Paladin Dreadknight GK, New Wraith Eldar, my Suits/Drones Farsight Enclave.

I usually pick a theme, then optimize around that theme. Sometimes I can't bring myself to take a unit just because its good, ie Kroot for my Farsight Enclave.

Its how I enjoy the game and I often get labeled a power gamer, etc. I enjoy competitive play and enjoy playing other like minded people. My most enjoyable games are competitive in mindset and the real nail biters. It also fits my schedule as I play ~75% of my games in tournaments nowadays.

When we "casual" gamers play (at least in my area) we are competative. But our lists arent optimized. Arguably in our opinion this makes the game far more strategical. Non optimized list vs non optimized list brings balance, story and competativeness all in one. And its something that takes a bit of effort to get to but theres no reason you cant have nail biting games without exploited combos. I for example have a nemisis necron player and whenever we fight its neck and neck the whole way through, people crowd around to watch its great fun. We have no fliers usually, his army is all necron warriors and 2 monoliths. Hardly optimized and lacks in many areas, but my list is the same. Makes for a great game. Balanced and non optimized in my opinion makes for a great narrative and competitive game. Plus people dont deploy knowing they will get tabled which is also great.

Tabling is far rarer than many would lead others to be. In the day where every table should have some LOS Blocking terrain its damn near impossible some games.

As to fielding unoptimized armies, glad you can do it. It down right painful for me to attempt, by nature I struggle to do anything knowingly inefficient. My life is governed by rule, so is my gaming. That doesn't mean I field the latest netlist, but I choose a theme, and then optimize around that theme, otherwise I'd optimize around an entire army, that is my mid ground.

I will argue that Optimized and Balanced lists do the very same thing, with less margin for error and at a higher level of play. Are you handicapping yourself as much as your opponent? Did they take something just too efficient? etc etc.

I usually get beat by the unorthadox army lists. But they are usually my most fun games.

 conker249 wrote:
I usually get beat by the unorthadox army lists. But they are usually my most fun games.

Sometimes Rock Paper Scizzors gets upset by the guy who brought Dynamite.

 ductvader wrote:

 conker249 wrote:
I usually get beat by the unorthadox army lists. But they are usually my most fun games.

Sometimes Rock Paper Scizzors gets upset by the guy who brought Dynamite.

Or a LOT of napalm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When it comes to "Rock, Paper, Scissors" I prefer playing "Rock, Paper, WTF IS THAT!?!".

The only thing that makes me roll my eyes are the dedicated 'power lists' that the net has knocked down to roughly 100 points of variation. If somebody shows me one of these I usually just smile and say 'Wow, looks powerful' and politely walk away. That is not my style of gaming, so those type of players grate on me.

 Zagman wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
I completely agree with Thud and approach the game the very same way. My brain has a thing for symmetry and themes. I usually take things in twos and threes, not necessarily for the redundancy, but for the symmetry.

In 5th it was an Entirely Assault oriented Nids army, a Driago Paladin Dreadknight Army, AV12 Spam Eldar, Flying Librarians BA.

Got out of the hobby for a while got back in and I have my Driago Paladin Dreadknight GK, New Wraith Eldar, my Suits/Drones Farsight Enclave.

I usually pick a theme, then optimize around that theme. Sometimes I can't bring myself to take a unit just because its good, ie Kroot for my Farsight Enclave.

Its how I enjoy the game and I often get labeled a power gamer, etc. I enjoy competitive play and enjoy playing other like minded people. My most enjoyable games are competitive in mindset and the real nail biters. It also fits my schedule as I play ~75% of my games in tournaments nowadays.

When we "casual" gamers play (at least in my area) we are competative. But our lists arent optimized. Arguably in our opinion this makes the game far more strategical. Non optimized list vs non optimized list brings balance, story and competativeness all in one. And its something that takes a bit of effort to get to but theres no reason you cant have nail biting games without exploited combos. I for example have a nemisis necron player and whenever we fight its neck and neck the whole way through, people crowd around to watch its great fun. We have no fliers usually, his army is all necron warriors and 2 monoliths. Hardly optimized and lacks in many areas, but my list is the same. Makes for a great game. Balanced and non optimized in my opinion makes for a great narrative and competitive game. Plus people dont deploy knowing they will get tabled which is also great.

Tabling is far rarer than many would lead others to be. In the day where every table should have some LOS Blocking terrain its damn near impossible some games.

As to fielding unoptimized armies, glad you can do it. It down right painful for me to attempt, by nature I struggle to do anything knowingly inefficient. My life is governed by rule, so is my gaming. That doesn't mean I field the latest netlist, but I choose a theme, and then optimize around that theme, otherwise I'd optimize around an entire army, that is my mid ground.

I will argue that Optimized and Balanced lists do the very same thing, with less margin for error and at a higher level of play. Are you handicapping yourself as much as your opponent? Did they take something just too efficient? etc etc.

For a start we all have the luxury of planning as we created a club with 30-60 members. So before a game a quick talk about some things namely fliers and a rough guide of who is taking what (I.E lots of tanks, bit of both and other general questions like that) and then when it comes to the game we set up a cool looking map (we just make on that looks natural no taking turns on placement or anything) then choose a mission or roll and go. Army list wise its not handicapping if you play the units for look and theme etc. But it also helps (and this is where i understand the huge difference is between my situation and a lot of others) that i know what my opponent can and cant handle. One friend cant deal with one of my small eldar lists because i move into cover after shooting etc, s i change my list to make it more effective for him to actually be able to do something. I tailor it not only to fight my opponent but also so that he can fight me and they do the same. And thats for a standard game.

Its less handicapping and more tailoring it in a way that makes it the most efficient for both players to hurt the enemy. All it is to have games like that is a change in mindset. And sometimes it doesnt work but tabling people was very frequent at the club especially in my small group of regular players. No longer an issue although it still happens every so often. I have not yet had a game with a random person in my life though. i have always belonged to a club and as a result i have always had the luxury communication.

Although next year im gonna try my army at the GW store but chances are ill be kicked out for having other brands models so if i manage to get a game in i might be more understanding of those that Power List.

This post was done a while back by "Goatboy" but had me thinking of how not to "roll the eyes".

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/11/goatboy-40k-mondays-questions-on-making.html

Think it is important to figure out a solution to those painful lists.

When I look at Tau lists and see nothing but riptides for elites. Sure its a tough thing to fight against but there is no fun in that.

But really spam of any kind whether it be fliers or riptides.