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"Hi Im a CSM player, and I took 3 Decimator Siege Engine in my Elite slots + Daemon Detachment Allies for a total of 4."

Lets play a 2k game!!

I don't get this hate against spam. I love spam. I can't stand armies that consist of a hodgepodge of units.

I could make an Eldar army consisting of an HQ dude, some green Scorpions, some Red Fire Dragons, some Blue Dire Avengers, some black Guardians, a couple of black tanks, some white Shining Spears, a black Vyper and a red Crimson Hunter, but I don't and I won't because that army doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

If I run Vypers, I run six of them. Because I love Vypers, and I love having tons of them. Same goes for Wave Serpents. I have four and I use four.

I've run a Sanguinary Guard army in the past with 20 of the little fellas, and I'm currently building a Farsight Enclaves army with nothing but battle suits.


I love these armies, and they look amazing on the table top.

And when I run into dickheads who whine about spam, I know who to not play against.

Thud, your defenition of spam is different than mine it seems. I don't care if you took 3 or 4 of something because you like playing it and it looks cool and is fluffy, I call "spam" on the guy who took 4 Riptides for the mechanical advantage they give his army.

In my eyes there is a big difference between the two and their intents.

Thud wrote:
I don't get this hate against spam. I love spam. I can't stand armies that consist of a hodgepodge of units.

I could make an Eldar army consisting of an HQ dude, some green Scorpions, some Red Fire Dragons, some Blue Dire Avengers, some black Guardians, a couple of black tanks, some white Shining Spears, a black Vyper and a red Crimson Hunter, but I don't and I won't because that army doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

If I run Vypers, I run six of them. Because I love Vypers, and I love having tons of them. Same goes for Wave Serpents. I have four and I use four.

I've run a Sanguinary Guard army in the past with 20 of the little fellas, and I'm currently building a Farsight Enclaves army with nothing but battle suits.


I love these armies, and they look amazing on the table top.

And when I run into dickheads who whine about spam, I know who to not play against.

We keep talking about theme. If you like the idea of having 6 vypers go on and do it. But if you just take them because you wanna crush your enemy quickly and you are exploiting it without real reason besides winning thats where people like us have a problem. Exploitation is not what you are doing. Which is good.

Thud wrote:


I've run a Sanguinary Guard army in the past with 20 of the little fellas, and I'm currently building a Farsight Enclaves army with nothing but battle suits.

Dante and Farsight were both specifically designed to allows players to play fluffy armies based around a theme.

There is a massive difference between running armies with spammable troops and infantry, than running armies that contain 4 Riptides.. 4 Drakes, 4 Decimators...

The difference being that Infantry are counterable by equal amounts of fire for an equal amount of point investment.

A MC with a 2+ NEED dedication to being destroyed and that usually costs a good chunk of your army in order to do so... How do you kill 4 Riptides? Well... you could bring 3 Tri-Las-Preds and ally for a second one... and then only kill 1 per turn....

How do you kill 4 Decimators?... Well you could bring 4 Riptides and hope to god you blow 1-2 of them up before they str10 AP1 pie plate your entire table edge to oblivion...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Thud, your defenition of spam is different than mine it seems. I don't care if you took 3 or 4 of something because you like playing it and it looks cool and is fluffy, I call "spam" on the guy who took 4 Riptides for the mechanical advantage they give his army.

In my eyes there is a big difference between the two and their intents.

But how do you know my intent?

Four Riptides is something that really appeals to me. Same goes for three Wraithknights.

My Farsight list only has two Riptides, but that's only because I wanted so many other things in it as well. If I didn't like Broadsides and Hazard suits, I would have at least three. And it would be because I think they are awesome, not because they are good, but what does that really matter to you?

Because my approach to the game might make our match more enjoyable? Maybe so, but my most enjoyable games of 40k have all been against power gamers with hardcore lists they took simply because it was the best. Not saying that all power gamers are awesome guys, just that they aren't necessarily dicks.

I like symmetry, so every list MUST have 4 land raiders.

Funny you should say that, as I actually have a four Land Raider army.

Thud wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Thud, your defenition of spam is different than mine it seems. I don't care if you took 3 or 4 of something because you like playing it and it looks cool and is fluffy, I call "spam" on the guy who took 4 Riptides for the mechanical advantage they give his army.

In my eyes there is a big difference between the two and their intents.

But how do you know my intent?

If I know you, then it's because I know the kind of player you are. If not I ask what kind of game you want. If you say "tournament" then I step back and point you towards someone else because I play casual.

And if you get a gak-eating grin on your face when you plot 4 Riptides on the table I pack up right there.

There are clues to these kinds of things.

Thud wrote:
Four Riptides is something that really appeals to me. Same goes for three Wraithknights.

It breaks the fluff for me as both of those are described as being pretty uncommon if not rare for both armies. If we play Apoc, bring it on, but in a 1.5K game I won't play against that. It's just no fun for me.

Thud wrote:
My Farsight list only has two Riptides, but that's only because I wanted so many other things in it as well. If I didn't like Broadsides and Hazard suits, I would have at least three. And it would be because I think they are awesome, not because they are good, but what does that really matter to you?

To me it matters as it affects what kind of game we'd be playing. I play casually and want a good game and don't take the time to bring my heavy metal army to the table to get curbstomped every week.

Thud wrote:
Because my approach to the game might make our match more enjoyable? Maybe so, but my most enjoyable games of 40k have all been against power gamers with hardcore lists they took simply because it was the best. Not saying that all power gamers are awesome guys, just that they aren't necessarily dicks.

4 Riptides would not be "more enjoyable" for me. I play Sisters. That'd just be kicking me while I'm down. Now if I brought 4 Heldrakes or 3 Wraithknights you'd have an arguement.

*High Five*

That's fair enough.

By the way, though, even though I'd prefer tournament level games, I'm always more than happy to play casual, as I love to get in games where my poor Blood Angels actually stand a chance.

I have played multiple people who use nearly identical lists, all of the ones I listed in my previous post. The only person I've played recently who didn't use one of these lists was a noob with an ebay Eldar list who I beat easily, because it was his first game. I like the novelty factor of playing against a variety of different threats, not just the mechanical action of repeating the same thing over and over. Then it feels less like a hobby and more like work, and I don't play 40K because I want it to feel like work.

Thud wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Thud, your defenition of spam is different than mine it seems. I don't care if you took 3 or 4 of something because you like playing it and it looks cool and is fluffy, I call "spam" on the guy who took 4 Riptides for the mechanical advantage they give his army.

In my eyes there is a big difference between the two and their intents.

But how do you know my intent?

Four Riptides is something that really appeals to me. Same goes for three Wraithknights.

My Farsight list only has two Riptides, but that's only because I wanted so many other things in it as well. If I didn't like Broadsides and Hazard suits, I would have at least three. And it would be because I think they are awesome, not because they are good, but what does that really matter to you?

Because my approach to the game might make our match more enjoyable? Maybe so, but my most enjoyable games of 40k have all been against power gamers with hardcore lists they took simply because it was the best. Not saying that all power gamers are awesome guys, just that they aren't necessarily dicks.

In my experience there are very few non dickish power gamers. But then my reply to you is would you weaken your list to make a match more enjoyable? There are lots of things in my eldar army i like (however i dont spam) but i wont combo my apsects to kill quickly. Nobody likes a game where someone is doomed to loose from the start. Where is the fun in that? Also why on earth would any army from a fluff standpoint field armies like that? Your list with multiple riptides etc is NOT THEMED therefore id just point you to another player of your species What you gotta understand is that it does get to a point where spam stops being themed and interesting and becomes powergaming.

 Swastakowey wrote:
In my experience there are very few non dickish power gamers.

My experience is the exact opposite.

But then my reply to you is would you weaken your list to make a match more enjoyable?

Yes.

I actually played in a tournament about a month ago, and a guy at my club wanted to play a game against the list I took with me doing my absolute best to beat him so he could learn. I tabled him in two turns and in return took one wound on my Riptide due to a failed nova charge. It was awful. Ironically, he enjoyed the lesson, but I hated it.

What you gotta understand is that it does get to a point where spam stops being themed and interesting and becomes powergaming.

But it is themed, and interesting is highly subjective.

GoliothOnline wrote:
"Hi Im a CSM player, and I took 3 Decimator Siege Engine in my Elite slots + Daemon Detachment Allies for a total of 4."

Lets play a 2k game!!

Decimators are scary? News to me, they are pretty average.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
"Hi Im a CSM player, and I took 3 Decimator Siege Engine in my Elite slots + Daemon Detachment Allies for a total of 4."

Lets play a 2k game!!

Decimators are scary? News to me, they are pretty average.

I think you summed up some of my feeling about how people perceive spamming units. I don't think anyone would bat an eye at 3 forgefiends, but would likely take exception with 3 heldrakes. The perceived value of the units is a part of whether some consider it spam or not.

Difference being, your shooti army staying as far away as possible from me is going to be more than 42" from me, so my str 10 AP 1 Large Blast if going to hurt you a lot more over 2 turns than my Heldrakes that have to wait until turn 2 to get 1 (if any) turn of good torrenting.

I think people over estimate how powerful that is in comparison to a marsh mellow roaster.

Another isssue is the huge lack of variation in lists. My friend goes to tournaments and frequently comes across exactly the same lists. Granted he plays fantasy but they have the same problems as 40k does.

GoliothOnline wrote:

How do you kill 4 Decimators?... Well you could bring 4 Riptides and hope to god you blow 1-2 of them up before they str10 AP1 pie plate your entire table edge to oblivion...

Wait..what?

Are we talking about the same Decimator here?

They only get those S10 Ap1 pieplates for a very high cost, and only works if you're over 42" away.

Decimators are thoroughly mediocre units at best.

Thud wrote:
That's fair enough.

By the way, though, even though I'd prefer tournament level games, I'm always more than happy to play casual, as I love to get in games where my poor Blood Angels actually stand a chance.

Sisters do very well against Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

I don't mind people who play competitively, I just mind when they bring their hardest tournament lists into what should be a fun pick up game. That's why I try to communicate the game I'm looking for ahead of time.

 Vaktathi wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:

How do you kill 4 Decimators?... Well you could bring 4 Riptides and hope to god you blow 1-2 of them up before they str10 AP1 pie plate your entire table edge to oblivion...

Wait..what?

Are we talking about the same Decimator here?

They only get those S10 Ap1 pieplates for a very high cost, and only works if you're over 42" away.

Decimators are thoroughly mediocre units at best.

230 points
Daemon Save 5++
Ignores weapon destroyed + Immobilized on a 5+
Have a chance each turn to come back to life on a 6 with D3 of its hull points restored and any weapons are no longer destroyed
for 25 point you have It will not die
aaaand between 18" - 42" you still cause str 8 ap 4 large blasts
and dont forget your Siege Claw has a built in Heavy Flamer.

GoliothOnline wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:

How do you kill 4 Decimators?... Well you could bring 4 Riptides and hope to god you blow 1-2 of them up before they str10 AP1 pie plate your entire table edge to oblivion...

Wait..what?

Are we talking about the same Decimator here?

They only get those S10 Ap1 pieplates for a very high cost, and only works if you're over 42" away.

Decimators are thoroughly mediocre units at best.

230 points
Daemon Save 5++
Ignores weapon destroyed + Immobilized on a 5+
Have a chance each turn to come back to life on a 6 with D3 of its hull points restored and any weapons are no longer destroyed
for 25 point you have It will not die
aaaand between 18" - 42" you still cause str 8 ap 4 large blasts
and dont forget your Siege Claw has a built in Heavy Flamer.

Yeah, ti's got some cool stuff. Still hideously expensive, and 255pts with IWND. If you can deal with IG artillery in cover, or Land Raiders, you shouldn't have much trouble with the Decimator.

if you're running Tau, a much cheaper Hammerhead will serve as a very apt counter, you can get two for the price of one of these Decimators. It's paying a lot of points for largely mutually exclusive abilities (e.g. it has to pay for that heavy flamer and claw even if they never get used because it's sitting in a corner lobbing plates). A trio of melta-crisis suits also will cost far fewer points and can reliably DS in and defeat the Decimator.

Anyone that rolls their eyes at a legal list needs to meet Sirlin.

Question is, how man people run 3 or even 1 Hammerhead these days... lately I havent seen a single one at my FLGS or any in lists from Tau players... Most are taking Fusion Blasters for their anti Tank.. And you also need some Markerlights so you can hope you don't miss =/ Unless you're taking Longsight, Even then, 5++...

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Anyone that rolls their eyes at a legal list needs to meet Sirlin.

If you mean from Sirlin.net, I'd say that really goes hand in hand with making sure if you're looking to play one way or the other you make sure your opponent does too so you both can have a game you can enjoy and neither of you feel like your time is being wasted.

GoliothOnline wrote:
Question is, how man people run 3 or even 1 Hammerhead these days... lately I havent seen a single one at my FLGS or any in lists from Tau players... Most are taking Fusion Blasters for their anti Tank.. And you also need some Markerlights so you can hope you don't miss =/ Unless you're taking Longsight, Even then, 5++...

And it's entirely possible for the Decimator to whiff as well, the thing's only WS3/BS3, it's melee strenght is also only S8 vs most other CC walkers S10, and it's very easy to stay within that 42" if you want, once within that 42" (most of the board) it's very easy to engage it on your own terms.

If someone's running 4 of them in a 2k game, they'll have points for maybe 3 troops and an HQ, a very small and easily outmaneuvered army that will very much face critical capability gaps.

Even if you're not running hammerheads (which are still wonderful tanks), there's lots of Tau options, and as long as you're engaging at less than 42" you will almost always have the advantage in terms of firepower.

Typhus + 3 x 30 man squads of Zombies, 3 Decimators with Conversion Beamers + Allies of Daemons Nurgle Herald lvl 2 mastery and Grimoire with 20 plague Bearers and 1 Plague Ridden, 1 last Decimator, sits at 1850


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and dont forget that it benefits in CC from Smash USR as per the rules state on its Decimator Siege Claw.

GoliothOnline wrote:
Typhus + 3 x 30 man squads of Zombies, 3 Decimators with Conversion Beamers + Allies of Daemons Nurgle Herald lvl 2 mastery and Grimoire with 20 plague Bearers and 1 Plague Ridden, 1 last Decimator, sits at 1850

Aside from mass the zombies aren't contributing much, Typhus is basically there as a fist in one unit, and you're reliant on the decimators for most of your killing power, and all of your ranged firepower, your AT, and anti-heavy infantry. Any decent list should be capable of defeating this army. Stay under 42" (not hard), and as long as you can deal with the mass of zombies, the army poses relatively little threat, especially if it has to face enemy armor or flyers. For the price of those 4 Decimators you could almost get 3 Heldrakes and 3 Forgefiends and be notably more effective.

I would feel confident facing this army with any list I'd run.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
and dont forget that it benefits in CC from Smash USR as per the rules state on its Decimator Siege Claw.

Then it's getting fewer attacks as well.

Lol Im going to stop after this...

You don't simply place 110 models on the board and keep them there... If your opponent sees them he knows what's coming... Zombie Cultists en mass will eventually get into assault, and when they do, it's going to be a pain for most shooti armies (Especially Tau)

If you are sitting them on objectives for 5 turns, you've wasted not only said models, but the 3-5 hours of your time playing the game =/

I've run this list personally, against Tau... It's funny as all hell and you truly cannot kill that many models... Prioritize the Decimators, and sure you'll probably kill 1, really lucky? maybe 2.

But then the Zombies get closer to you... Tau aren't going to win in CC against even Zombies... Hell... Gretchin tend to win against Tau in CC...

Prioritize the Zombies? Ok.. well.. you might just kill an entire flank of them, but that still leaves me with 60+ and you just forfeit an entire turn, so my Decimators get their try and some lovely AP1 goodness..

I miss a few, I won't lie, but that has never stopped me b4 from killing something each turn... Heck... I've had dozens of Scatters throughout my game experiences, and more often than not, a scatter tends to be just as good as me killing off an entire gunline... Miss the Fishies, blew up their tanks...

Sad thing is this usually happens to Tau because of their Supporting Fire Special Rule where they NEED to be rather close to each other in order to benefit from it... hence why I love me some Large Blasts <3