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GENERAL IN THREAD WARNING TIME!

STOP with the personal attacks.

Debate the point, not the poster.

Or something like that.

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 Arschbombe wrote:
The butthurt is strong in this thread.

From reading it you'd get the impression that a single Guardian Defender could table 2000 points of Blood Angels cause the space fairies are just that over powered.

Until you try to play BA in 6th, don't speak too soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
"I was still curious though, are you seeing the classic Fortune/Invis fishing on Farseers for the Seer stars? What about the armies that are pure Serpent spam?"

Most Eldar players had Seer Councils from the 4th edition codex, and I see mix of fishing and Baron. There is only one Serpent SPAM player, and most have a Wraithknight, which is why I can tell you that that unit is more reasonable than the other two.

Most all of them are civil players, so it's not that bad. We mostly know the outcome, but most are trying to make sure their lists can hold 80% win rate vs meqs for tournament planning.

Just got an emailFrom shrouded lord.
Appariently he got suapended for what he said here...
Wow. Never thought of him as the insult someone type.

Edit: he was suspended, not banned.

I see Blood Angels often as a standard for being a weaker force, point for point. What's so bad about them?

Also, I've played Eldar a fair amount and to be quite honest... they don't seem that OP. But then my experiences of the games are only 1800 points max, so perhaps the issues lies in the larger games?

The 2+ penetrate-glance thing is a little annoying, but it's nothing too bad.

I think myself a relatively decent tactician, I've not lost in 20-30ish games in GW, so maybe it's the quality of opponent. I play SM:Ultas btw.

BA pay more for everything compared to 6th ed lists and most of the strats their book is designed to do doesn't work in 6th either. Bad special characters, bad special units, assault nerfs. It's a death of a 1000 little nerfs.

It's not the shield in DEFENSE mode I care about. If the Eldar player wasn't using the shield in OFFENSE mode, then you won't understand the problem. It fires D6+1 S 7 AP - ignores cover shots. Range: 60".

Martel732 wrote:


Until you try to play BA in 6th, don't speak too soon.

I have. BA suck now. It's common knowledge. They even sucked after GK arrived at the tail end of 5th to hammer and halberd them into the ground. The suckage now has more to do with 6th edition in general, than the power of the Eldar and Tau codices. Flyers, FMC, Overwatch, random assault distance, FNP, weak vehicle rules, and Furious Charge all combine to make BA much less viable now. Tau and Eldar just add to the pain. They alone are not the cause and threads like this are not the solution.

The problem is that none of the meq codices are that great against Tau/Eldar. You speak of BA not being viable in a general sense, but I can play against most meq lists just fine. It's when I get to Xeno lists it all falls apart quickly.

BA are struggling in the wake of not having yet received the points drops that came with the newest Marine codex, the Libby and bikes are two of the biggies but they are also still paying over the odds for the basic marine chassis and lacking the buffs like chapter tactics and what they had in previous editions just isn't covering that gap any more.

Not to break theme and agree but yeah, it's not the Serpents defence mode that makes it great, forcing you to hp out an AV12 vehicle would be a good ability in and of itself. Add the ability to trade that for a S7 Assault 4.5 (on average) ignores cover volley that is more than likely twin linked and you have a transport that will happily trade punches with most MBT's due to it's mobilty as well as largely invalidate the Falcon and Fire Prism. I get that someone wanted to give them a cool shield shooty thing like in the Space Marine/Epic days but what it got was way too good.

BA won't be good even after a point drop. They'll be stuck right along with the BT in nerfed assault hell. They'll end up being a shooting army that can't compete with other shooting armies. Of course, in the scheme of things, I don't think C:SM is that much better than the maligned Tyranid codex. Neither have good answers to the power lists. Likely, the BA won't, either.

There was some discussion about what it would take to bring Eldar into line with where they should be here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/210/573267.page

Looks like most people agreed at one point that a stiff nerf to the Shield's shooting range (6"-18" were the common ideas) would do it for the Serpent. Not entirely sure about the others, though.