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Moonstone doesn't work that way (and it's a good thing !) as you count as having marched after using it
not a problem when used with skirmishers though

TanKoL wrote:
Moonstone doesn't work that way (and it's a good thing !) as you count as having marched after using it
not a problem when used with skirmishers though

Crud, forgot about that whole marching and firing thing. Throw him on a steed and put him with Sisters? Their javelins are thrown and already poisoned...

Guess you could do it with Deepwood Scouts, slightly more expensive per model but lets you have a smaller unit if you want.

The thing with trueflight is that Miasma still works.
-D3 to BS means you're firing at ~BS2 and ignoring modifiers, always hitting on a 5+.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
The thing with trueflight is that Miasma still works.
-D3 to BS means you're firing at ~BS2 and ignoring modifiers, always hitting on a 5+.

-Matt

Very true. But then, Miasma screws over every kind of arrow in the end.

Hagtree or Arcane Bodkins would be hitting on 5's, but pretty much any penalty would negate the entire shooting. Skirmishers, > half range, hard or soft cover, Howling Warpgale, etc. etc. All those things would hurt everything but Trueflight. Miasma hurts them all.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
The thing with trueflight is that Miasma still works.
-D3 to BS means you're firing at ~BS2 and ignoring modifiers, always hitting on a 5+.

-Matt

#tkproblems.

The other thing is the ruling pending on can you duplicate enchanted item arrows across an army. One Midwest tourney(Midwest Rampage) has already ruled and said no. So that is another potential issue. I think Hagbane are sweet, personally.

 Acardia wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
The thing with trueflight is that Miasma still works.
-D3 to BS means you're firing at ~BS2 and ignoring modifiers, always hitting on a 5+.

-Matt

#tkproblems.

The other thing is the ruling pending on can you duplicate enchanted item arrows across an army. One Midwest tourney(Midwest Rampage) has already ruled and said no. So that is another potential issue. I think Hagbane are sweet, personally.

I was under the impression that items in a unit's Army List entry didn't suffer from that limitation?

So was I, however there is nothing explicit that states that. The entry for Warpstone Weapon in the Skaven book seems to set the precedent for duplication of the same magic weapon. And since these lack it, there is an argument.

Personally I'm torn. It clearly applies to characters that if the item is taken, by one then no other character can duplicate it. As an except to take a second enchated item is allowed, however not duplicate it. Skaven book allows duplication explicitly. That is missing on the arrows.

Now for units. it's still treated as an enchanted item. Which really begs 3 points to raise.

1) duplication within a unit, plaguebearers and about half of the DOC book violate this already since they are equipped with magic weapons.

2) Duplication across multiples of same unit carrying multiples
(Feels like the yo dawg meme)

3) And does this only apply to optional upgrades? You can take multiple magic item upgrades to corpse carts correct? IIRC the upgrades are magic items.

Huh, I'm a skaven player normally so that must be where my confusion came from.

I'm sure that will get all cleared up in the FAQ!






some day

Damn, would I like some trueflight arrows on some of peasant bowmen, they never seem to hit, nevermind wound.
Well, tis to expected from the filthy commoners.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Moonstone, acorn and drycha and tree spam sounds like a list for ultimate trolls, dryads/treekin popping up every where and running about should be fun if the board is big enough for the trees to be put down in good places.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Mine are gonna be shadow warrior torsos, Glade Guard longbows, and Dark Rider masked heads.

Pics when done please

So, Swiftshiver Shards vs Trueflight arrows.

I am still building my army and havent played any fantasy yet, but from my experience as a 40k player, and especially an Ork 40k player I have noted that volume of shots always seems to prove useful, even if at a - to hit.

What I want to know is how often and how severe are these negatives to ht. I know that half-range + gives you a negative to hit and that moving gives you a negative. But lets look at this way.

10-man glade guard unit with Trueflight that moved and is firing at 20" will hit on 3s. that's 6.66 hits.
10-man glade guard unit with Trueflight that stayed still and is firing at 10" will hit on 3s. 6.66 hits

10-man glade guard unit with Swiftshiver (2 shots each) that moved and is firing at 20" will hit on 5s. thats 6.66 hits
10-man glade guard unit with Swiftshiver that stayed still and is firing at 10" will hit on 3s. that's 13.33 hits.

So as you can see, if you are taking a -2 to hit, you are the same, but at anything less than a -2, the pure volume of shots statistically is better. My question is this, how often do you anticipate suffering a -3 to hit?

quite, actually. It is very easy to screen units with more durable, less attractive targets which force you at a -1 to shoot the squishy stuff. Or if you want to move. Or if you are shooting into/through a forest (God knows we can put enough of them down). Or as a stand or shoot reaction. Or at Skirmishers. Simply by being a Skirmisher over 15'' away behind any sort of cover is putting you at a 7+ to hit (6's followed by 4's), all the whole the Trueflight arrows will get the same amount of hits as ever.

As a Wood Elf player, we would know more then most about putting enemy shooting at a disadvantage and how easy it is. In all honesty, there are only 2 competitive arrows and a third situational one, those being Hagbane, Trueflight and Moonfire (the anti-destruction one) as they all have niches only they can fill. Poison works wonders vs War Machines, Trueflight murders Skirmishing chaff and Moonfire strips regen easily. Swiftshiver? Meh, I'd rather pay a few more points and get myself a Waywatcher with the same abilities, better BS and the option to ignore armour.

 Icculus wrote:

10-man glade guard unit with Swiftshiver (2 shots each) that moved and is firing at 20" will hit on 5s. thats 6.66 hits
10-man glade guard unit with Swiftshiver that stayed still and is firing at 10" will hit on 3s. that's 13.33 hits.

-1 for multiple shots.
10 man that moved and fired at 20" will hit on 6+. 3.33 hits
10 man that stayed still and firing at 10" will hit on 4+. 10 hits.

So, if you're backing away and firing, Trueflight arrows are better.
If you can park and shoot, that 1 round of shooting will be better.

Gotcha. I must have missed the -1 for multiple shots thing.

So it looks like there are lots of ways those negatives can stack up and the Swiftshiver are only better in one situational instance.

Thanks for breaking that down for me.

 Acardia wrote:
1) duplication within a unit, plaguebearers and about half of the DOC book violate this already since they are equipped with magic weapons.

All magic item restrictions only apply if you have the ability to CHOOSE them. DoC don't choose. Certainly plaguebearers don't. The restrictions are in the BRB p.500

"In addition addition to specific restrictions noted in relevant armies book, there are rules that govern the SELECTION of all magic items..."

 Icculus wrote:
Gotcha. I must have missed the -1 for multiple shots thing.

So it looks like there are lots of ways those negatives can stack up and the Swiftshiver are only better in one situational instance.

Thanks for breaking that down for me.

I think swiftshiver arrows would be best used on Captains and Lords since their BS is extremely high, so they'll be able to lick shots off and still reliably hit things even if they move and are at long range. Honestly, if you're fielding a hero or lord that's not a caster, you're not really going to be staying far away from things anyway, so you'll only have to worry about the long range penalty for a turn or so.

 DukeRustfield wrote:

 Acardia wrote:
1) duplication within a unit, plaguebearers and about half of the DOC book violate this already since they are equipped with magic weapons.

All magic item restrictions only apply if you have the ability to CHOOSE them. DoC don't choose. Certainly plaguebearers don't. The restrictions are in the BRB p.500

"In addition addition to specific restrictions noted in relevant armies book, there are rules that govern the SELECTION of all magic items..."

So in the case of magical arrows, Wood Elf arrows are 0-1? That seems odd.

When I buy a magic weapon for my Vampire Lord, no one else can buy it because of the restrictions in the BRB. He HAS that magic weapon, and what a special snowflake it is.

When I buy these arrows for a unit of, say, 100 Glade Guard, everyone else in the unit gets them. I don't think the rulebook really covers unit upgrades like this nor do I think they cover unique magic items over multiple units, since they are clearly different from, well, normal magic weapons/enchanted items/whatever.

Just so we are allllllll aware, Tree Singing from Calaingor's Stave can be used to hurt enemies in combat, just so every one knows.

Looking through the Wood Elf book something small popped out at me. Eternal Guard have both Asrai Spears and Hand Weapons and have access to a shield, does that mean if i buy i shield would i get the choice to either use hand weapon + Shield for a parry save or Armour Piercing from the Asrai Spear each turn? I don't know, it just seems cool to have the option, for example if you are charged by something without a great save (daemons for example) while in a forest (So the extra rank doesn't matter) it would be smarter to use the hand weapon as you would get a parry save.

Is this right? Can i choose what mundane weapon my unit uses each combat?

If you have another weapon, you have to use it over the hand weapon.

Rangers + Wailing Banner = extra attack?

The rangers get an extra attack when FIGHTING an enemy with fear or terror.

Doesn't the wailing banner just give them fear?

I believe when in BASE CONTACT with a model with fear or terror. The banner gives the unit terror(?) So then they are all in base contact with models with terror?

I'm pretty sure that they get "+1A when in base contact with an enemy causing fear or terror"
Don't quote me on that though

TanKoL wrote:
I'm pretty sure that they get "+1A when in base contact with an enemy causing fear or terror"
Don't quote me on that though

We should though because you are quite right.