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Naw wrote:

 don_mondo wrote:
It's ambiguous because while they tell us it is dependent on his ML, they don't tell us how to calculate it. There is absolutely nothing that says it is a one-to-one (ie equals, you keep making up that part cause it ain't in the ryulebook) correlation.

There is also nothing else to state otherwise.

So you have made up 1:1, and because it doesnt state otherwise that is the standard we should use?

No. This way works perfectly - the number of powers you can cast IS dependent on your level, because your level supplies warp charges, without whcih you cannot cast. It is just not *solely* (or only) dependent on your level - THAT is the part you have made up.

A ML1 psyker, knowing two powers, CAN cast both, assuming sufficient WC available. That is RAW.

I've read the whole thread and all the arguments.

I see one line that uses the indeterminate language of "is determined by". Its existence implies that the designers intended it to mean something, but in the absence of a FAQ "is determined by" could mean 1:1 ML or 1:1 powers known (which is determined by ML).

I see another line that specifically says you can keep casting until you run out of Warp Charge or known powers as long as you don't cast a single power more than once on the same Psyker. There is no other way to interpret this.

Until FAQed, the second is the only clear permissive ruleset statement.

I have to say I'm firmly in the "Cast as many powers as you know, Warp Charge permitting" camp here.

Determined by does mean it's a 1:1 link between number of powers and ML because, well, it doesn't say so.

If and when it get gets FAQed it could go either way in my opinion.

@nosferatu: You missed the part where I said I agree with that interpretation even though I feel it is not supported by the rules.

How is it not supported by the rules?

I have shown how it is dependent. I have absolutely complied with that rule.

That is what we are asking you for - your feelings arent important here, just rules.

So, please - how is it not supported? Where does your 1:1 requirement come from?

If I'm allowed to cast 1 power per ML, end of story, what happens when I have a ML3 psyker and I'm out of Warp Charge? According to some, I'm absolutely allowed to cast that power but I don't have any dice to roll.

I think you cast till out of WC.

Rigeld2 - That could still work you could cast but you'd have no successes as you have no dice and the power would fail.

rigeld2 wrote:
If I'm allowed to cast 1 power per ML, end of story, what happens when I have a ML3 psyker and I'm out of Warp Charge? According to some, I'm absolutely allowed to cast that power but I don't have any dice to roll.

Cast it using zero dice. You need at least a 4+ to succeed, go for it! ... Oh look, you failed. Power unsuccessful.

Wow all I can say is I'm glad some of you don't work for me.

Me: go help that customer.

employee: well he didn't say go help that guy at the counter. He said go help that customer. So I guess I can help that guy next door.


common sense did get up graded to rare.


Always go with the weaker rule when not sure that way if get Faq. you get a bonus not a nerf.

The problem with not using the ML being 1:1 to powers cast is that ML is NOT the sole factor when determining the number of powers a psyker has. There are other factors involved when determining the number of powers taken, such as discipline focus or Chaos focus. Also, powers can be lost via Perils of the warp. A ML2 psyker could have 2, 3, or possibly even 4 (depending on how the auto-assigned Chaos powers count towards generated powers and discipline focus).

So the statment regarding number of powers cast per turn being dependent on the pysker's ML wouldn't be true if it was referring to the number of powers that could be taken, because that number is not entirely dependent on the ML.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
The problem with not using the ML being 1:1 to powers cast is that ML is NOT the sole factor when determining the number of powers a psyker has. There are other factors involved when determining the number of powers taken, such as discipline focus or Chaos focus. Also, powers can be lost via Perils of the warp. A ML2 psyker could have 2, 3, or possibly even 4 (depending on how the auto-assigned Chaos powers count towards generated powers and discipline focus).

So the statment regarding number of powers cast per turn being dependent on the pysker's ML wouldn't be true if it was referring to the number of powers that could be taken, because that number is not entirely dependent on the ML.

Instead, you can say that the number of powers a psyker can cast is directly related to the number of warp charges in your dice pool. Which is directly related to mastery level.

Zimko wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
The problem with not using the ML being 1:1 to powers cast is that ML is NOT the sole factor when determining the number of powers a psyker has. There are other factors involved when determining the number of powers taken, such as discipline focus or Chaos focus. Also, powers can be lost via Perils of the warp. A ML2 psyker could have 2, 3, or possibly even 4 (depending on how the auto-assigned Chaos powers count towards generated powers and discipline focus).

So the statment regarding number of powers cast per turn being dependent on the pysker's ML wouldn't be true if it was referring to the number of powers that could be taken, because that number is not entirely dependent on the ML.

Instead, you can say that the number of powers a psyker can cast is directly related to the number of warp charges in your dice pool. Which is directly related to mastery level.

That's inherently false, though. The number of warp charges in your pool is based on the mastery level of ALL Psykers in your army, and in some cases like Pink Horrors it's not even based on Mastery Level at all. Be'lakor is another exception who has a different warp charge than his capabilities speak of. Since the rules clearly say the number of powers "A PSYKER" can manifest depends on "HIS" mastery level, it is impossible for the rules to mean that you can continue to use powers so long as you have warp charges. Any army with more than one psyker in it is already capable of breaking this rule.

Again, you are inserting the word"only" in there, when that word is nonexistent .

Yes, it does depend on your ml, but that is not a 1:1 or sole dependence. To say otherwise is impossible

nosferatu1001 wrote:
How is it not supported by the rules?

I have shown how it is dependent. I have absolutely complied with that rule.

That is what we are asking you for - your feelings arent important here, just rules.

So, please - how is it not supported? Where does your 1:1 requirement come from?

I do not make such a claim, don't be obtuse. All I said was that the other interpretation isn't any better.

It seems that you are usually quite hostile in these threads. Take a chill pill.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Again, you are inserting the word"only" in there, when that word is nonexistent .

Yes, it does depend on your ml, but that is not a 1:1 or sole dependence. To say otherwise is impossible

If 1:1 isn't the intention, why even mention ML in the rule when that only partially influences the number of powers a psyker has? Shouldn't the rule have simply stated that the number of powers cast was dependent on the number of powers the psyker has?

I am leaning toward the 1:1 method simply because that is the only method that is consistent across the board. Basing it on the number of powers gives a significant advantage to Chaos psykers and focused psykers beyond what I think is the intended bonus of just having the utility of an extra power.

Steel Angel wrote:
Wow all I can say is I'm glad some of you don't work for me.

Me: go help that customer.

employee: well he didn't say go help that guy at the counter. He said go help that customer. So I guess I can help that guy next door.


common sense did get up graded to rare.


Always go with the weaker rule when not sure that way if get Faq. you get a bonus not a nerf.

It's almost like your example has context to help it along, which differs from the rule being discussed (ie there's no context).
Insulting people isn't very nice. Please refrain from doing so.

Naw - yet have managed to provide no rules or argument as to why. Just an opinion. Please follow the tenets and substantiate , or mark it as hywpi.

Classic - so no rules argument, just appeals to "what makes sense".

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Naw - yet have managed to provide no rules or argument as to why. Just an opinion. Please follow the tenets and substantiate , or mark it as hywpi.

Classic - so no rules argument, just appeals to "what makes sense".

Its as much of a "rules argument" as anybody else has presented. RAW, # of powers cast per turn is dependent on ML. RAW, ML is NOT the only factor that dictates the total number of powers available to a psyker. Therefore, we can safely conclude that ML and # of powers available are not interchangable. Since only ML is mentioned in the rule as the determining factor for how many powers can be cast per turn per psyker, then only ML should apply, thus the 1:1 interpretation.

I readily admit that the rule was worded with just enough ambiguity to cause a debate on intention. As such,we are pretty much forced to try and find the interpretation that makes the most sense using what is written. Isn't that the point of these discussions?

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Naw - yet have managed to provide no rules or argument as to why. Just an opinion. Please follow the tenets and substantiate , or mark it as hywpi.

Classic - so no rules argument, just appeals to "what makes sense".

Its as much of a "rules argument" as anybody else has presented. RAW, # of powers cast per turn is dependent on ML. RAW, ML is NOT the only factor that dictates the total number of powers available to a psyker. Therefore, we can safely conclude that ML and # of powers available are not interchangable. Since only ML is mentioned in the rule as the determining factor for how many powers can be cast per turn per psyker, then only ML should apply, thus the 1:1 interpretation.

I readily admit that the rule was worded with just enough ambiguity to cause a debate on intention. As such,we are pretty much forced to try and find the interpretation that makes the most sense using what is written. Isn't that the point of these discussions?

The problem is there is no support for 1:1. It could just as easily be 2 powers per Mastery Level, in which case it is still dependent on Mastery Level.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Naw - yet have managed to provide no rules or argument as to why. Just an opinion. Please follow the tenets and substantiate , or mark it as hywpi.

Classic - so no rules argument, just appeals to "what makes sense".

Its as much of a "rules argument" as anybody else has presented. RAW, # of powers cast per turn is dependent on ML. RAW, ML is NOT the only factor that dictates the total number of powers available to a psyker. Therefore, we can safely conclude that ML and # of powers available are not interchangable. Since only ML is mentioned in the rule as the determining factor for how many powers can be cast per turn per psyker, then only ML should apply, thus the 1:1 interpretation.

I readily admit that the rule was worded with just enough ambiguity to cause a debate on intention. As such,we are pretty much forced to try and find the interpretation that makes the most sense using what is written. Isn't that the point of these discussions?

The point of these discussions is to determine what RAW is, then you can offer a HIWPI but should not insist that is how everyone should play it.

I think we've determined that, RAW, Mastery Level has no direct (edit: and measurable) bearing on how many powers a psyker can cast per turn. You can choose to play it differently, but that doesn't change what the rules say.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Its as much of a "rules argument" as anybody else has presented. RAW, # of powers cast per turn is dependent on ML. RAW, ML is NOT the only factor that dictates the total number of powers available to a psyker. Therefore, we can safely conclude that ML and # of powers available are not interchangable. Since only ML is mentioned in the rule as the determining factor for how many powers can be cast per turn per psyker, then only ML should apply, thus the 1:1 interpretation.

Why is 1:1 any more reasonable than 2:1 or ML^2?
I mean, if you're going to make up a number at least make it fun.

rigeld2 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Its as much of a "rules argument" as anybody else has presented. RAW, # of powers cast per turn is dependent on ML. RAW, ML is NOT the only factor that dictates the total number of powers available to a psyker. Therefore, we can safely conclude that ML and # of powers available are not interchangable. Since only ML is mentioned in the rule as the determining factor for how many powers can be cast per turn per psyker, then only ML should apply, thus the 1:1 interpretation.

Why is 1:1 any more reasonable than 2:1 or ML^2?
I mean, if you're going to make up a number at least make it fun.

Because ML is the only thing mentioned as the determining factor. ML is the only value that is constant and not influenced by other factors, factors that are not mentioned in the rule for determining the number of powers a psyker can cast per turn.

ML is not interchangable with the number of powers available because it is not the same 100% of the time. Faction, special rules, and the decision to focus in a discipline have as much of an impact to the number of powers known as ML does. The rule does not state that the number of powers a psyker can cast is dependent on ML, faction, special rules, and discipline focus, it just states ML as the sole dependency with no other references. In my opinion (and I'm not forcing it on anybody, just stating my case), the omission of those other factors leads to a 1:1 interpretation.

i think the best solution here is as always, talk to the person you are playing with, its baout having fun remmber.

also i belive its cast untill youre out of WC's in Most cases this will be the same number that you know, but in some it will let the caster be a littlle more versitle. and i do not think given that the powers are pooled now, it will break the game so unless i play some one who deeply resents the cast till you're out thats how i will play

remmber no matter how you play its about having fun, so thank you for all of youre thoughts reguarding this subject and ur responces i wanted to tlak about this to osme one but you guys did all the talking for me

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Naw - yet have managed to provide no rules or argument as to why. Just an opinion. Please follow the tenets and substantiate , or mark it as hywpi.

Classic - so no rules argument, just appeals to "what makes sense".

What on earth is your problem? Taking this a bit too personally, aren't you?

Just because you shout loudest does not make your view more correct.

Classic - so not a rules argument. Please mark it as hywpi it then.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Classic - so not a rules argument. Please mark it as hywpi it then.

I'm curious as to how my reasoning any less supported by the rules than any of the others? I'm giving supporting details that are supported by the rules.

And by the way, I've already stated before in an earlier post that its how I will play it until its FAQed otherwise, and that its my opinion. Until we get a FAQ, all of these need to be marked HYWPI, so why single only those that you don't agree with?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Classic - so not a rules argument. Please mark it as hywpi it then.

You just don't get it, do you? There isn't anything definite in the rules to prove either point. Had you read all messages rather than gone off tangent you would have noticed how I were to play it. To repeat, HIWPI: Can cast as many powers as the caster knows, until run out of warp charges. And no repeating the same power.

Now take the chill pill already.

I had read them all. Stop assuming otherwise.

The point IS proven. I explained how the number of powers I can cast is dependent on ml, just not solely so. There is no unproven side, just one with rules support, and one claiming the word "only" has been inserted, and a 1:1 ratio made up from whole cloth.

I think there is only 1 choice left. As is pointed out there is no number assigned to how many powers a psyker can use, then he obviously can't use any.

it's not 1:1 as that's not stated
it's not all powers knows as that's not stated

as no numbers or ratios are used, then none is the only answer left.

Kyutaru - rule one, reported.

The point is proven, as the dependency was shown, and the further rules allowing you to keep casting while you have warp charges adds to this.