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jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
Hollow points are actually a very safe round. They are designed to penetrate the first target hit, and nothing else, they're supposed to dissipate their energy and cause more damage to the target without over penetration, etc. Conversely, with a "standard" ball round, there is a risk of penetrating the target and whatever is behind it.
This is why, in many places Jacketed Hollow Points are considered a "Defense round" of ammunition, as opposed to "target" ammunition (which is the standard ball round), and why some JHP manufacturers will send a team of lawyers to defend you, if their ammo is used in your self-defense case.
Teflon rounds I believe are highly illegal or something...
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
Did you just liken hollow points to a bazooka? Good grief.
Like Ensis said, they're designed to stop at one target and not pass through our fleshy bodies. As such, there's less of a chance that they'll ricochet or hit more than one target.
I didn't know you were a member of dakka, congressman.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/29 23:13:06
jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
Why wouldn't they be? When used in doors they are a lot less likely to blow through your wall and through your neighbors wall and into your neighbor than a ball round. They are more likely to blow a big chunk out of the crap bag you're shooting so you are more likely to survive the encounter. They allow smaller folks to fire a more manageable round and still be able to stop an attacker. Not every one can fire nor conceal a .45, and they may still want to be able to put some SOB down.
You'll note, most LE agencies use hollow points for the same reasons. Why should we be denied them?
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
In the vast majority of cases, if you're concealed carrying anything other than a jacketed hollow point (JHP) for personal defense, you're probably not intelligent enough or informed enough to be carrying a gun.
There is a reason why most police departments use hollow points.
It is absolutely ridiculous that they are illegal in New Jersey, ball ammo is in most cases going to be more dangerous to bystanders or people in other rooms.
I think a lot of the arguments against them stem from people not actually knowing what the capabilities of different rounds but believe everything they see on films and TV.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/30 01:28:05
jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
Hollow points are actually a very safe round. They are designed to penetrate the first target hit, and nothing else, they're supposed to dissipate their energy and cause more damage to the target without over penetration, etc. Conversely, with a "standard" ball round, there is a risk of penetrating the target and whatever is behind it.
This is why, in many places Jacketed Hollow Points are considered a "Defense round" of ammunition, as opposed to "target" ammunition (which is the standard ball round), and why some JHP manufacturers will send a team of lawyers to defend you, if their ammo is used in your self-defense case.
That makes total sense, thanks for not being a jerk like everyone else! second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
Depending on the vest. My IOTV can stop up to a 7.62mm but not a arrow unless it hits the plates. Think there's four classes of vest and the standard issue is a class three. You can own a vest but you cannot not wear one while committing a crime. Bumps the activity to the Federal level I think.
Edit
Standard Issue = Military Issue. I have faith in my body armor
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/30 04:26:09
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
Hollow points are actually a very safe round. They are designed to penetrate the first target hit, and nothing else, they're supposed to dissipate their energy and cause more damage to the target without over penetration, etc. Conversely, with a "standard" ball round, there is a risk of penetrating the target and whatever is behind it.
This is why, in many places Jacketed Hollow Points are considered a "Defense round" of ammunition, as opposed to "target" ammunition (which is the standard ball round), and why some JHP manufacturers will send a team of lawyers to defend you, if their ammo is used in your self-defense case.
That makes total sense, thanks for not being a jerk like everyone else! second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
What ability to penetrate armor is that? Those are Teflon coated rounds, not hollow points. They're built to penetrate less and expand once in the body.
jreilly89 wrote: That makes total sense, thanks for not being a jerk like everyone else! second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
No, in fact they're worse at piercing armor than other similar-caliber bullets. The whole "armor piercing bullets" thing is just one of those idiotic propaganda lies, there's nothing special about penetrating police armor vests because those vests are only designed to stop low-power pistol rounds (tougher armor is much less convenient for everyday use). The classic deer hunting rifle that gun control advocates so proudly claim they would never want to interfere with would go right through the average police vest and hardly notice it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/30 04:26:44
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
jreilly89 wrote: That makes total sense, thanks for not being a jerk like everyone else! second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
No, in fact they're worse at piercing armor than other similar-caliber bullets. The whole "armor piercing bullets" thing is just one of those idiotic propaganda lies, there's nothing special about penetrating police armor vests because those vests are only designed to stop low-power pistol rounds (tougher armor is much less convenient for everyday use). The classic deer hunting rifle that gun control advocates so proudly claim they would never want to interfere with would go right through the average police vest and hardly notice it.
Just having a "classic deer hunting rifle" though more likely entails the shooter will go for a head shot to avoid a chance of the vest limiting the damage. I am not in no way shape or form advocating shooting people. Though I am under the impression that all LEO patrolman/woman are required to wear their vest at all times.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
cincydooley wrote: What ability to penetrate armor is that? Those are Teflon coated rounds, not hollow points. They're built to penetrate less and expand once in the body.
You may want to fact check what you "know."
I thought hollow-points were referred to as "cop killers" because they could penetrate body armor. Or is it because hollow point is often more lethal? Hence whyI'm asking because I'm trying to become more informed and double check what I "know".
jreilly89 wrote: That makes total sense, thanks for not being a jerk like everyone else! second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
People want them to be illegal because most writers of gun legislation have absolutely no fething clue what they're talking about.
They're (generally) worse at penetration than target ball rounds. That "worse" can get a bit conditional when you start talking about some of the newer bonded core stuff, but it mostly holds true.
During the hollowpoint hysteria when they first started getting banned, the technology was so primitive that you had documented cases of hollowpoint rounds being stopped by parkas. Not crazy ballistic vests or plate carrier rigs or anything, just plain old winter coats.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jreilly89 wrote: I thought hollow-points were referred to as "cop killers" because they could penetrate body armor. Or is it because hollow point is often more lethal? Hence whyI'm asking because I'm trying to become more informed and double check what I "know".
They are referred to as that, yes. Entirely by the anti-gun crowd.
Why? No idea.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/30 04:42:31
jreilly89 wrote: That makes total sense, thanks for not being a jerk like everyone else! second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
People want them to be illegal because most writers of gun legislation have absolutely no fething clue what they're talking about.
They're (generally) worse at penetration than target ball rounds. That "worse" can get a bit conditional when you start talking about some of the newer bonded core stuff, but it mostly holds true.
During the hollowpoint hysteria when they first started getting banned, the technology was so primitive that you had documented cases of hollowpoint rounds being stopped by parkas. Not crazy ballistic vests or plate carrier rigs or anything, just plain old winter coats.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jreilly89 wrote: I thought hollow-points were referred to as "cop killers" because they could penetrate body armor. Or is it because hollow point is often more lethal? Hence whyI'm asking because I'm trying to become more informed and double check what I "know".
They are referred to as that, yes. Entirely by the anti-gun crowd.
Why? No idea.
That's super helpful, thanks! I don't really have a lot of experience with guns, hence why I'm trying to be more knowledgeable of things like this.
During the hollowpoint hysteria when they first started getting banned, the technology was so primitive that you had documented cases of hollowpoint rounds being stopped by parkas. Not crazy ballistic vests or plate carrier rigs or anything, just plain old winter coats.
I had heard that, in smaller calibers this could still be the case with heavy/thick jackets stopping, or nearly stopping a JHP round. I'm extremely hesitant to suggest that it IS still the case, but Ive heard/seen stuff around that still suggests it.
ARLINGTON, VA — The Department of Homeland Security has purchased more than one billion rounds of a newly designed 9mm handgun round designated “domestic anti-personnel,” developed in part by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, and manufactured in China by NORINCO, a investigation has uncovered.
Nicknamed “Patriot Poppers,” the ammunition was originally conceptualized as the round to “guard against those guarding against tyranny.” According to government documents, the design is extremely effective at creating permanent tissue damage to unarmored doughy middle-aged targets.
“It won’t really penetrate any significant body armor, but that stuff is illegal to purchase anyway,” said Regina Dugan, a DARPA spokesperson speaking to reporters only on background. “These are for pacification of the law-abiding, protest prone people: Truthers, Birthers, you know the type. Don’t quote me on that.”
The new DAP round represents a great leap forward in ammunition design,” said David Lo Pan, spokesman for NORINCO North America. “While the new round is not armor-piercing, it can easily penetrate the Old Testament, The Book of Mormon, iPhones, fanny packs, pocket-sized constitutions, Members Only jackets, frock coats, powdered wigs, and picket signs.”
The flashy new design is also attracting attention from private firearm enthusiasts interested in exercising their 2nd amendment rights. Following the State of the Union address however, President Obama preemptively signed an executive order designating the round for Law Enforcement and Military use only.
The National Rifle Association and the National Association for Gun Rights have vowed to fight the state and federal restrictions, as well as challenge the fiscal and legal grounds of the bulk purchase itself. The NRA called the executive order “an unconstitutional executive fiat,” while the NAGR decried the government’s alleged moral and fiscal impropriety.
DHS Director Jeh Johnson attempted to justify the purchase, quickly releasing a statement to address some misconceptions taking hold on blogs and talk radio.
We’ve provided his full statement below:
“Look, I don’t know what people are getting so worked up about. Your local neighborhood cop isn’t carrying these bullets to kill your common criminals or illegal immigrants; even though he might have to do those things in very unusual situations. He’s carrying these bullets because we foresee a need to shoot and kill anti-government extremists and PTSD-addled veterans. Does anyone really not get that? The Domestic Anti-Personnel round is nothing more than a tool that was explicitly designed for that legitimate purpose.
This new round is a windfall for the American people. These rounds cost a fraction of the military grade ammunition. They are smaller and lower powered, which saves taxpayers money. Because to be honest, it just doesn’t take much lead and powder to put one of those taxpayers down.”
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Ensis Ferrae wrote: Do you seriously just archive all the Duffelblog articles you find and search the index in times of need???
You should know better...
FORT BRAGG — The Junior Enlisted Servicemembers Union, better known as the “E-4 Mafia,” announced a new anti-awareness campaign Friday in hopes of reminding fellow soldiers to “see nothing, say nothing” when it comes to the group’s shadowy dealings on military bases at home and abroad.
The campaign, says Public Affairs Specialist Anthony DiCarlo, will take the form of posters, fliers, pamphlets, and 30-second television spots on the Armed Forces Network.
Featuring a lost private first class bumbling around a corner to find two specialists unloading gear from a truck, the television spot appears aimed at the very lowest ranks of the Army. As one of the specialists raises a finger to his lips and slowly shakes his head, the private goes about his business while a warm, deep voice narrates:
“The E-4 Mafia plays a vital role in our military. One day, you too may need something fast, with no questions asked. So remember: see nothing, say nothing.”
Posters and fliers for the campaign feature similar situations — a young lieutenant paying a specialist for the answer key to a land navigation exercise; a supply sergeant shielding his eyes from two specialists performing each others’ quarterly inventory reports — with the “See Nothing, Say Nothing” slogan superimposed prominently in red.
“In these perilous times of protracted wars, battle fatigue, and diplomatic tension, it’s important to remind soldiers they must remain unvigilant for suspicious activities,” DiCarlo explained. “It’s easy to become complacent in the workplace,” he went on, “so do it already.”
Not everyone supports the campaign, however. Three times in the last four years, Secretary of the Army John McHugh has voiced support for budget cuts to the E-4 Mafia, which he says “should never have received funding in the first place.” The proposal has consistently failed to get off the ground due to a series of mishaps, notably when McHugh’s speech notes were lost (2010), McHugh’s driver got lost (2012), and last year, when McHugh himself was reported missing the morning he was to deliver congressional testimony.
To date, he has never spoken publicly about the disappearance, but has announced he is unlikely to pursue the measure again.
Elsewhere, reactions to the campaign were mainly positive, with many soldiers calling the new slogan an improvement over the former “This is happening. Just close your eyes and accept it.”
“I’m not sure exactly what it was about the old slogan,” admitted Staff Sgt. Jason Ruiz, a Sexual Harassment/Assault Response and Prevention NCO within his company, “but it just never sat right with me.”
In accordance with the updated regulations, materials will be disseminated to every Active, Guard, and Reserve unit armory in the country to assist E-4s as they prepare presentations on the latest policy.
“Of course, the policy changes create some extra work,” said one specialist with the 118th Infantry Regiment of the S.C. Army National Guard, on condition of anonymity. “but this new guidance will help get the Army back to operating like a greasy, oily machine — like those ones where you put in a quarter and a penny, and get back a messed-up penny. The way the Army was meant to be.”
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
ARLINGTON, VA — The Department of Homeland Security has purchased more than one billion rounds of a newly designed 9mm handgun round designated “domestic anti-personnel,” developed in part by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, and manufactured in China by NORINCO, a investigation has uncovered.
Nicknamed “Patriot Poppers,” the ammunition was originally conceptualized as the round to “guard against those guarding against tyranny.” According to government documents, the design is extremely effective at creating permanent tissue damage to unarmored doughy middle-aged targets.
“It won’t really penetrate any significant body armor, but that stuff is illegal to purchase anyway,” said Regina Dugan, a DARPA spokesperson speaking to reporters only on background. “These are for pacification of the law-abiding, protest prone people: Truthers, Birthers, you know the type. Don’t quote me on that.”
The new DAP round represents a great leap forward in ammunition design,” said David Lo Pan, spokesman for NORINCO North America. “While the new round is not armor-piercing, it can easily penetrate the Old Testament, The Book of Mormon, iPhones, fanny packs, pocket-sized constitutions, Members Only jackets, frock coats, powdered wigs, and picket signs.”
The flashy new design is also attracting attention from private firearm enthusiasts interested in exercising their 2nd amendment rights. Following the State of the Union address however, President Obama preemptively signed an executive order designating the round for Law Enforcement and Military use only.
The National Rifle Association and the National Association for Gun Rights have vowed to fight the state and federal restrictions, as well as challenge the fiscal and legal grounds of the bulk purchase itself. The NRA called the executive order “an unconstitutional executive fiat,” while the NAGR decried the government’s alleged moral and fiscal impropriety.
DHS Director Jeh Johnson attempted to justify the purchase, quickly releasing a statement to address some misconceptions taking hold on blogs and talk radio.
We’ve provided his full statement below:
“Look, I don’t know what people are getting so worked up about. Your local neighborhood cop isn’t carrying these bullets to kill your common criminals or illegal immigrants; even though he might have to do those things in very unusual situations. He’s carrying these bullets because we foresee a need to shoot and kill anti-government extremists and PTSD-addled veterans. Does anyone really not get that? The Domestic Anti-Personnel round is nothing more than a tool that was explicitly designed for that legitimate purpose.
This new round is a windfall for the American people. These rounds cost a fraction of the military grade ammunition. They are smaller and lower powered, which saves taxpayers money. Because to be honest, it just doesn’t take much lead and powder to put one of those taxpayers down.”
easysauce wrote: funny, when its information about bad foods, and its on the label, thats not enough being done to educate the public, and its not the eaters fault for not understanding/reading the label, because those labels are complicated.
but when its gun laws, that are not in such plain veiw, feth the fethers because they should know better.
Do you have to possess a firearm in order to continue living?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
easysauce wrote: funny, when its information about bad foods, and its on the label, thats not enough being done to educate the public, and its not the eaters fault for not understanding/reading the label, because those labels are complicated.
but when its gun laws, that are not in such plain veiw, feth the fethers because they should know better.
Do you have to possess a firearm in order to continue living?
It would depend on the circumstances.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
Why not? Whats the issue? Do you even know what a hollowpoint is?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Hollow points? Is that similar to dum-dum rounds, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
cincydooley wrote: What ability to penetrate armor is that? Those are Teflon coated rounds, not hollow points. They're built to penetrate less and expand once in the body.
You may want to fact check what you "know."
I thought hollow-points were referred to as "cop killers" because they could penetrate body armor. Or is it because hollow point is often more lethal? Hence whyI'm asking because I'm trying to become more informed and double check what I "know".
You thought wrong. Cops use hollowpoints. Do cops all shoot "cop killer" bullets?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Hollow points? Is that similar to dum-dum rounds, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Generally...yes. Hollowpoints theoretically expand up to 150% of their diameter (at least on the pistol side). They cause more damage, but are much less dangerous in that their wall penetrating capacity is substantially less (same for vests). Round nose or ball ammo, does not expand and is like a tiny tiny old school cannon ball, just barreling trhough and preserving its energy as it goes.
Shot (as in buckshot) takes this concept further and expends the most energy directly into its target (also filling it with lots of little or not so little holes).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/30 11:04:55
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Do mandatory minimums only kick in if you go to trial or could she make a plea bargain?
1) She didn't do her due diligence as a responsible firearm owner. Like the Bundy Ranch it seems that it doesn't matter if she was 100% in the wrong, people will back her because it plays into a prepackaged narrative.
2) Mandatory minimums. They are stupid, but any politician that would try to change them would be labeled soft on crime and have trouble with an election. They didn't magically appear from the nether realm, we put them into place. Now we complain about them but also make it almost impossible to get rid of them.
3) New Jersey seems to have some odd firearm laws, but that is their prerogative.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Ahtman wrote: Do mandatory minimums only kick in if you go to trial or could she make a plea bargain?
Only upon conviction and subsequent sentencing - if he's not willing to let her plea down, then she's going to face the 3 years. The prosecutor could choose a lower charge if appropriate, but there may be a reason why he hasn't chosen to do that (racism, or it wasn't an innocent accident, either work so pick whichever you like).
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
Hollow points are actually a very safe round. They are designed to penetrate the first target hit, and nothing else, they're supposed to dissipate their energy and cause more damage to the target without over penetration, etc. Conversely, with a "standard" ball round, there is a risk of penetrating the target and whatever is behind it.
This is why, in many places Jacketed Hollow Points are considered a "Defense round" of ammunition, as opposed to "target" ammunition (which is the standard ball round), and why some JHP manufacturers will send a team of lawyers to defend you, if their ammo is used in your self-defense case.
That makes total sense, thanks for not being a jerk like everyone else! second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
I don't think anyone else was being a jerk. It looked like everyone was just trying to answer your question.
jreilly89 wrote: Can someone explain how/why hollowpoints are legal? I'm all for CCW, but I don't understand why hollowpoints are considered under the "right to bear arms". By that right, I deserve a bazooka! Not trying to be a jerk, but I am genuinely curious.
Hollow points are actually a very safe round. They are designed to penetrate the first target hit, and nothing else, they're supposed to dissipate their energy and cause more damage to the target without over penetration, etc. Conversely, with a "standard" ball round, there is a risk of penetrating the target and whatever is behind it.
This is why, in many places Jacketed Hollow Points are considered a "Defense round" of ammunition, as opposed to "target" ammunition (which is the standard ball round), and why some JHP manufacturers will send a team of lawyers to defend you, if their ammo is used in your self-defense case.
That makes total sense, thanks for not being a jerk like everyone else! second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
My natural state is "jerk" so it could be both in my instance.
I don't think anyone else was being a jerk. It looked like everyone was just trying to answer your question.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: Did I mention She Who Must Be Obeyed did her first IDPA match saturday and didn't shoot me?
Congratulations on surviving Any time my wife and I are at the range she somehow always manages to hit hit by at least one ejected case no matter where she stands
Ouze wrote: I would really like to see a federal framework for 100% countrywide ccw reciprocity. I don't think it's workable, though. There's really no gain for the individual states.
Why the need for a gain for the States? Surely the only gain should be for the citizens by aligning the law more closely with the Bill of Rights
d-usa wrote: The right to carry guns is regulate by the states. They have to comply with constitutional law, but each state gets to decide how they do it.
If only certain States paid more attention to "Shall not be infringed"
d-usa wrote: I don't live in a border area, but I do have a locked box in my car. If I were to cross into a state where I don't know 100% what the law is I would pull over on the side of the road, take off my gun, lock it up, and be on my way.
I wouldn't just assume like the lady in the OP.
And had you done that in NJ like the lady in the OP you too would likely be charged with the same offence
http://www.njlaws.com/unlawful-possession-weapon-2c39-5b.html?id=1934&a= "Handguns. Any person who knowingly has in his possession any handgun, including any antique handgun, without first having obtained a permit to carry the same as provided in N.J.S.2C:58-4, is guilty of a crime of the third degree if the handgun is in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas or vapor, air or compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in diameter, with sufficient force to injure a person. Otherwise it is a crime of the second degree."
second, do they actually pierce bullet proof vests? I know that's supposedly why people want them to be illegal?
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