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2014/11/01 01:54:10
Subject: Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: "I'm proud to be gay."
If they just mean on their campus it might be true, but if they mean overall then it is problematic. I have to imagine different places will have different problems. I do agree that it is problematic to separate a group from others, generally speaking. There will always be special situations and context, but as a general rule it seems a bad idea.
I can't really compare it to same sex only dorms as most straight people aren't interested in same sex intimacy and generally they are separated to avoid to much distraction from hormones. On the surface it would seem to reinforce otherness as well as put people who are young and horny in the same building/area, which is a whole set of other problems. Are they putting a gay woman and man together in a room? That would solve that problem, otherwise it is would seem like putting a straight guy and a straight girl in a room together.
It isn't that I think gay people are unable to control themselves, it is that I think young people are very sex driven because all of them I have met are and when I was that age all of them were as well. It is part of being that age. Also, I have seen Animal House.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/11/01 07:37:46
Subject: Apple CEO Tim Cook: "I'm proud to be gay."
TheMeanDM wrote: I am glad others have thought the same thing I have....
You're gay.
So what.
Why do you feel the need to announce it to the world?
I don't get that thought process....gay, black, hispanic, asian, white, purple, whatever....what's the big deal about announcing "I am ______" to everybody?
Well, see, GLBT youth have a tougher time than straight kids, even in 2014. Some of the highest suicide risk rates. So, making it to be the CEO of Apple, and saying "hey, I'm gay" sort of gives those kids a role model.
Super simple stuff
It's a shame sexuality is tied to who people decide is a role model.
I look up to people for their character and accomplishments, not who they like to feth.
This.
2014/11/01 08:04:31
Subject: Apple CEO Tim Cook: "I'm proud to be gay."
TheMeanDM wrote: I am glad others have thought the same thing I have....
You're gay.
So what.
Why do you feel the need to announce it to the world?
I don't get that thought process....gay, black, hispanic, asian, white, purple, whatever....what's the big deal about announcing "I am ______" to everybody?
Well, see, GLBT youth have a tougher time than straight kids, even in 2014. Some of the highest suicide risk rates. So, making it to be the CEO of Apple, and saying "hey, I'm gay" sort of gives those kids a role model.
Super simple stuff
It's a shame sexuality is tied to who people decide is a role model.
I look up to people for their character and accomplishments, not who they like to feth.
This.
Except that isn't what Ouze was saying at all.
It isn't that people say, "Oh, he likes dudes and I like dudes, so he's my role model." That is an extremely simple way of thinking and if you think that is the case, you're spectacularly wrong. Grow the feth up.
Despite what you all think, we still live in a society where LGBT people are not accepted. LGBT youth have amongst the hardest, even where it is more "accepted." I'm sure plenty of you here were awkward teenagers, bumbling around in the world without a clue as to who you are and what you will do with your life (I was, to an extent). Now imagine, you go to church and you're told you're a sinner simply for being who you are, you turn on the TV and you see people fighting tooth and nail to make sure you aren't afforded the same rights as everyone else, you live in a community that would stigmatize you, you live with parents that would ostracize you because of who you choose to love. Those things happen and they happen all over the place in every kind of community.
So for an LGBT youth to see someone like Tim Cook, a Southerner from a small town in Alabama that came from humble means to become one of the most powerful businessmen in the world, can be powerful stuff. It says to them that they may live in a world that doesn't accept them as people, but you can still work hard and be successful without having to compromise who you are.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2014/11/01 08:27:18
Subject: Apple CEO Tim Cook: "I'm proud to be gay."
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: So for an LGBT youth to see someone like Tim Cook, a Southerner from a small town in Alabama that came from humble means to become one of the most powerful businessmen in the world, can be powerful stuff. It says to them that they may live in a world that doesn't accept them as people, but you can still work hard and be successful without having to compromise who you are.
See I don't get that. I don't see what being gay has to do with his success. His talent, his drive, and his business/technological acumen made him the powerful individual he is. The fact that he's gay is, at best, tertiary to that and, at worst, utterly irrelevant. His sexual preference shouldn't be derided in any way, there's nothing wrong with having gay role models, and I can certainly see your point about the issues of discrimination with gay youth. but celebrating his sexuality it doesn't make a great deal of sense. He's gay. So what? How does that affect the products your company makes or how you develop them?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I don't see what being gay has to do with his success.
No one is saying that being gay is what made him successful, just showing others that even in a society that often marginalizes gay people it can be useful to show people that it doesn't have to hold you back.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The fact that he's gay is, at best, tertiary to that and, at worst, utterly irrelevant.
In a perfect world that would be true, but this isn't a perfect world and it still matters. Last I checked many places it is ok to fire someone just for being gay and things like DOMA still exist. Hell, I've heard people that still think that gay is the same as pedophilia. There is also the problem of suicide and violence that exists.
Apparently it means a decent amount to those that need to know that one can be gay and not be an entertainer I suppose, not to mention all the other problems listed above. Again, if this were an ideal world it probably wouldn't matter, but we don't live in that world. The fact that people still want to pretend it is a world where it doesn't matter while it does actually does matter is reason enough for it to matter, as can be seen by this thread.
H.B.M.C. wrote: How does that affect the products your company makes or how you develop them?
Who said it should? Tim Cook certainly didn't.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
2014/11/01 08:40:45
Subject: Apple CEO Tim Cook: "I'm proud to be gay."
ScootyPuffJunior wrote: So for an LGBT youth to see someone like Tim Cook, a Southerner from a small town in Alabama that came from humble means to become one of the most powerful businessmen in the world, can be powerful stuff. It says to them that they may live in a world that doesn't accept them as people, but you can still work hard and be successful without having to compromise who you are.
See I don't get that. I don't see what being gay has to do with his success. His talent, his drive, and his business/technological acumen made him the powerful individual he is. The fact that he's gay is, at best, tertiary to that and, at worst, utterly irrelevant. His sexual preference shouldn't be derided in any way, there's nothing wrong with having gay role models, and I can certainly see your point about the issues of discrimination with gay youth. but celebrating his sexuality it doesn't make a great deal of sense. He's gay. So what? How does that affect the products your company makes or how you develop them?
You don't understand the difference between "celebrating his sexuality" and recognizing that despite living in a society where he isn't seen as equal to you and me, he was able to accomplish what he has? Because the latter is the gist of what is going on here.
Tim Cook is from a state (amongst others) that is a part of what is supposedly the greatest nation on Earth, where you can lose your job and your livelihood simply because you are attracted to the same sex. That is sickening.
So yeah, I think it's pretty neat that he is telling people that, despite living in a society that treats people like him as less than equal, he was able to accomplish what he has because of all those qualities you listed, while not being ashamed of who he is.
But hey, if you want to be so shortsighted as to thinking that means we are just "celebrating his sexuality," go right ahead.
EDIT: edited for grammar and also Ahtman ninja'd me... Well said.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/01 08:43:47
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
