Is an aquila tattoo bad?

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**Wyzilla**

Stormwall wrote:
jreilly89 wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Smacks wrote:
It is easy to just call someone a troll when you don't agree with them.
You're being called a troll because you're being purposefully making insulting, inflammatory remarks... you know, like a troll.

But I'm not a troll.
Maybe not, but you're trolling.

So just knock off the bloviating, you aren't impressing anyone and you aren't as clever as you think you are.

But guys, look at how trendy he is. He doesn't have tattoos and thinks they're lame, therefore making him the superiorest hipster!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smacks wrote:
ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
You're being called a troll because you're being purposefully making insulting, inflammatory remarks... you know, like a troll.
No, I'm being called a troll because I had the audacity to draw attention to the cliche' reasons people claim they got tattoos (To remember, to remind etc...) versus why people actually get tattoos, which is often (deep down) as a means to draw some attention to themselves, flirt, start conversations about themselves (their military career) etc... I don't think this is an especially bad thing, it's quite a normal human impulse, but there are lots of other ways to be interesting that don't involve permanently marking your body. And it is a far cry from the "cool" rebellious image they are trying to portray. In fact it raises a lot of interesting questions about body image, conformity and self esteem. You might say that is insulting, but then we know you have tattoos. I say it is true (for the majority of people) and just slices a bit too close to the nerve, which makes you uncomfortable.

I have collected some quotes from just this thread, which I think show that my "bloviating" as you put it, was actually spot on.

djones520 wrote:
I got the USAF Symbol put onto my right shoulder. That way it'll be one of those things my kids and their kids can ask me about, and I can explain to them that it's there to remind me about the commitment I made to my nation for such a large part of my life.
Lots of deep sentiment here, but if we look past that, he is still ultimately saying that he got the tattoo so that people will ask about it, and he can talk about himself.

Eilif wrote:
Far better to have people ask you to explain what you're tattoo is then have a tattoo with mixed messages ... but I think tattoos should have some intrinsic meaning more than a game. Search your family history and explore your deepest beliefs.
He acknowledges that part of having a tattoo is people asking you about it, and you getting to explain. Then we get back into the "meaning" thing, which is just an afterthought when the decision to get tattooed has already been made. This proves that the proposed meaning is inconsequential to the action.

Stormwall wrote:
I have mine to remind me that the service changed my life, repaired me, and provided the gateway to an education.
Again, this is a deep sentiment, but I'm not sure what it really has to do getting a tattoo. Doesn't seem like something you're likely to forget. And wouldn't something like supporting a serviceman's charity be a more productive gesture than just drawing on your arm?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Best was the one girl whonasked me what it meant and I told her how it represents ... etc etc etc. She was eating out of the palm of my hand and kept saying "oh my god, thats so deep". In retrospect I prolly coulda fethed her
Heh, this is almost word for word my mock conversation. Good for you chaos0xomega, this is a man who knows what tattoos are for and how to use them to almost get laid. I would not have been so easily impressed as 'that one girl', but then I'm probably not your type.

ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
So just knock off the bloviating, you aren't impressing anyone and you aren't as clever as you think you are.
No post would be complete without that mandatory insult would it? Few people are as clever as they think, it's something to do with cognitive bias. But even if I were half as cleaver as I think I am, I'd still be clever enough to spot the sad irony of trying to force the word 'bloviating' in where it doesn't apply. Who is really the one trying too hard to impress here? I didn't go permanently changing my skin to look different for other people.

There is no shame in wanting a bit of attention, or wanting to change yourself, but please don't insult my allegedly mediocre intelligence by denying it.

You're right, 4 people's post on Dakka = mounds of evidence. All bow down before Smacks obvious superiority, he is clearly the smartestest of all the hipsters!

I am so mad I am shaking. I did it FOR NO ATTENTION. I had to learn to walk again you selfish little snob. You do the brits a disservice! I practically destroyed my hip in service. My tattoo is for myself and my platoon. It is tastefully hidden. I NEVER reveal it. Ever! I see it only at night when I lie down to sleep! I am going back to college so I may be a PT and fix other veterans, in the vain 20% oddball chance that the service (Natty Guard,) will take me back as an officer candiate with my 8 year degree I am so furiously working on. If that fails I already have connections so I can become a State Trooper in Virginia. I wish to help and serve people. It was the reason I enlisted. It was to do good. That tattoo is a personal reminder that each day when I wake up in pain like some old fething man due to hip and knee pain, to carry on with my life for myself and for my family. Because if I don't my girlfriend will h4avr a much harder time getting her citizenship (ie: income wise. She is Swede, not hispanic before you even attempt to profile me.) So there. That is as good of an argument for a piece of art on you as I can think of. Furthermore, I commented in good faith to help a Dalkanaut decide if this was a wise choice. I would tell him to hold off.

You are a troll wanting a rise. Well you got one, I hope I don't get fething baned for this. Blocked for sure. Go pick fights and find other pawns you malcontent angsty I apologize in advance but, I feel like this was a random attack and it is abad day for me as I got in wreck on the way to school today. Sorry to clog the thread with personal stuff but, obviously a tattoo is very personal if it has meaning. Jesus. I can't believe some people are so angsty and cynical on a website for toy soldiers. (Something the service also gave me a fond love for.)

Also here it is for refrence Hotsauce. I wasn't going to post it as it is for myself to enjoy but, after that wall I owe it to you. I consider it tasteful, and it is rather small since I struggle with weight issues now that I am out of the service.

O 7

I feel your pain. I've got arthritis despite a mere twenty years of age and had reconstructive bone surgery on my feet. I swear I can feel my joints creak when the temperature dips.

**Stormwall**

Every time it gets cold I live in agony. Sucks as I live on mountain and when I go to Sweden it is even colder. I know your pain but, ouch. Feet issues would suck!

Oh to add to the discussiom again. Tats can cover surgery scars. Oh and since you quoted that, I did edit it Since he is so keen on throwing charities up. Another thing, the report function doesn't work on a phone.

**Smacks**

jreilly89 wrote:
Why? There's literally no point in argiung with you, as it's pretty obvious you've made up your mind about tattoos and have resorted to trolling. Rather than bother, I'll take a page from your book and resort to trolling as well.

You wouldn't know because you didn't try, I actually soften on issues all the time, but I am never moved by insults and false reasoning. The only person trolling here is you. Which, if I'm honest, is actually far less grating than having to read the dismal affronts to reason that you consider points.

jreilly89 wrote:
But, you CAN'T have your own opinion, Smacks said so!

Again this isn't like anything I have said. Here is something I have said earlier in this topic:

"I don't think tattoos should be illegal or anything. People should be free to make their own choices"

Pretty much the opposite of the lie you are trying to perpetuate about me. Why is it you keep leaning so heavily on dishonesty in your posts? Is it because the truth bothers you?

Jehan-reznor wrote:
Tattoo's in the west have become a fashion item, when i was young it was still associated with criminals, biker gangs, rock musicians, so why have i one because, it is going against conformity and because i like it.

You like it? As in: you thought it would look good on you?

Stormwall wrote:
I am so mad I am shaking ... you selfish little snob. You do the brits a disservice! ... You are a troll wanting a rise. Well you got one, I hope I don't get fething baned for this. Blocked for sure. Go pick fights and find other pawns you malcontent angsty

You need to calm down. No one was questioning your devotion to service, or the injuries you sustained. The only part I question is what drawing on yourself has to do with any of that.

Stormwall wrote:
I did it FOR NO ATTENTION ... I NEVER reveal it. Ever! ... Also here it is for refrence.

lol, yeah I'm sorry budy. I thought you were one of those people who uses his tat as an excuse to talk about his service career and injuries. That was bad of me, I am sorry and ashamed.

StarTrotter wrote:
Personally I have none but I've desired to have a dragon tattoo on my back. The reason is the pathetic because I think they are cool which is an opinion I sincerely doubt will ever change

Why is that pathetic? I certainly don't think it is. The part I find pathetic is masquerading that "I thought it looked cool" behind some pretentious made up reason, the "reminder" being the most worn out trope of them all.

EDIT: nice post btw StarTrotter.

**Stormwall**

Apology accepted, you beat me to the ignore button. I have no career to really discuss as it was ended via injury. I apologize too as I got really mad and it is childish, for that I am sorry. However, you really should apologize to the people you singled out, not me. I am just here to make sure Hotman doesn't get a tat he regrets. I regret this one sometimes, and another times it lifts me up.

If you still question the tattoo, reread what I wrote. I gave about 50 reasons. Main one was motivation for myself going through Physical Therapy and I am proud (and full of regret concerning,) my short career. I have avoided this subject till now as tattoos/my injuries are identifying features. I don't want my personal life on here.

My biggest apology is to the vets on dakka. All it takes is one vet to feth up and then they're all judged. Vets have bad enough stereotypes against them, I don't need to get mad and defensive and add to it.

Sorry all, embarassed now.

Edit: Gotta stop apologizing before someone labels me an apologist.

**Smacks**

Stormwall wrote:
Apology accepted, you beat me to the ignore button. I have no career to really discuss as it was ended via injury. I apologize too as I got really mad and it is childish, for that I am sorry. However, you really should apologize to the people you singled out, not me. I am just here to make sure Hotman doesn't get a tat he regrets. I regret this one sometimes, and another times it lifts me up.

If you still question the tattoo, reread what I wrote. I gave about 50 reasons. Main one was motivation for myself going through Physical Therapy and I am proud (and full of regret concerning,) my short career.

I wasn't really trying to single anyone out. All I was trying to do was post some examples to show that people do get tattoos with the intention of showing them to other people. Which I hope you would agree isn't a bad thing? But I made it sound like a bad thing because I contrasted it against more noble reasons. I am actually genuinely sorry I upset you, I can tell your unit meant a lot to you. I certainly wouldn't want to to take that away for you.

**Stormwall**

No I get it. There locals around here are found of tattooing their Grandmas intials/name on their arms in a band, and talk about how amaxing she was when asked. Or they do it for a free beer. They only get mad when you bring up the fact they hadn't visited their Grandma in 5-6 years and they were the ones who put her in one of the awful abusive local nursing homes. I can agree with you in that regard.

Like everything in OT all subjects have two sides, like a coin.

**Jehan-reznor**

Smacks wrote:

Jehan-reznor wrote:
Tattoo's in the west have become a fashion item, when i was young it was still associated with criminals, biker gangs, rock musicians, so why have i one because, it is going against conformity and because i like it.
You like it? As in: you thought it would look good on you?

I like it because i like it. Is it something alien to you to think that someone could like it to put an image they like on them?

**Stormwall**

Yeah... no one puts a tattoo on if they don't like it haha.

**PrehistoricUFO**

Literally every person who has come into my game room, after seeing the enormous Imperial Aquila flag hanging on my wall, asks if it's a Third Reich flag.

I then explain its origin, and the conversation ends.

**KiloFiX**

But in all seriousness, I have:

My name,
My wife's name,
My blood type
A cross.

... inked on me.

In case of those "Memento" or "The Notebook" moments, at least I'll have my bases covered.

As to the stigma about not getting your significant other's name inked, we've been together 18 years now, so well...

**Smacks**

Jehan-reznor wrote:
I like it because i like it. Is it something alien to you to think that someone could like it to put an image they like on them?

No, it is not alien at all, it makes perfect sense to me. However, the statement: "I like it because I like it" makes less sense. That is just circular reasoning, which I think glosses over your real motivations for liking it and wanting it on your body. The reasons people like things are many and complex, but our decisions are often driven by evolutionary factors such as finding a mate, being accepted by a group, attaining status and respect. These things play a subtle (but often important) part in all our decision making.

As Stormwall has said: "no one puts a tattoo on if they don't like it". But why not, if it is just there to serve a purpose? The truth is people do care about how they look and how they are seen by others. That is our sense of vanity. Vanity is not all bad. It is a useful and necessary part of our psyche, which protects us from being ridiculed and ostracized.

So for you to say that you put something on your body (permanently), and you gave no thought whatsoever as to how it might be perceived by other people. In fact, that never crossed your mind until I brought it up just now? Well then I would say you are a liar. But I hope it will not come to that. I think you will agree that vanity did play some small part in your decision. That does not mean you are a vain person. I think vanity plays a part in all our decisions (mine included). I don't think that is unreasonable, is that so difficult to acknowledge?

MWHistorian wrote:
I'm a classically trained oil painter and studied art in Italy and I think of tattoos as art. Turning your skin into a canvas for art is pretty awesome and don't worry about what anyone else says. Though, depending on what kind of employment you want you should make sure it's not in a place that would show it off. My brother and sister in law have tattoos that nobody will see because for them they're deeply personal and only for each other. (A cancellation of the vanity theory.) People get tattoos for various reasons and to launch blanket statements of vanity is ignorant at best.

I'm also a classically trained artist, I do life drawing sometimes 3 days a week, and work as an artist. In fact some of my artwork is tattooed on people (ironic). I agree that tattoos are art because they are a type of illustration. But being a canvas for art does not make one an artist by extension.

If you read back through my posts, you will see that before you posted, I had already addressed the case where a tattoo might only be seen by your wife, and noted that it is still an outward statement for another person. This does not cancel out vanity at all. How you are perceived by a lover is perhaps the most important job vanity does. People do choose to get tattoos for various reasons, but those reasons will usually boil down to self-image in some form or another (even if it is to cover scars). The idea that people with tattoos get them without considering self image is absurd, and stating that people "just like" something is just avoiding asking why they like it, which again links back to self image.

**MWHistorian**

A meaningful message between lovers isn't vanity. I don't think we agree on the definition.
You know what you remind me of? In Donnie Darko where they simplify all human emotion into "Love" and "Fear." I feel that that's what you're doing. Your view of motivations is way to binary and simplified to be accurate.

**Smacks**

MWHistorian wrote:
A meaningful message between lovers isn't vanity. I don't think we agree on the definition.

Vanity is a difficult thing to discuss honestly. I'm not talking about excessive vanity as a character flaw, merely a natural human trait. Most people seem to go out of their way to pretend they don't care what people think, and aren't trying to impress anyone. Even though people who receive disfiguring injuries often take many years of counseling and soul searching to come to terms with their appearance, and truly adopt a carefree attitude. So I find it difficult to accept someone at their word when they claim not to care about how they look.

I don't know enough about the people you mentioned to discuss them in any meaningful way. But I expect they chose tattoos that they were comfortable with and found aesthetically pleasing, rather than disfiguring. I don't see why anyone would get a tattoo in order to look worse, so it follows that they must have intended the tattoos would augment their appearance in some way.

If you aren't comfortable calling that vanity, then we can agree to disagree. I would even be happy to concede that issue, since people with 100% private tattoos represent quite a small group. Most people seem keen to share tattoos when prompted. Many have posted their tattoos in this thread.

MWHistorian wrote:
You know what you remind me of? In Donnie Darko where they simplify all human emotion into "Love" and "Fear." I feel that that's what you're doing. Your view of motivations is way to binary and simplified to be accurate.

Oh sneaky edit.... You mean the pedophile antichrist guy? And there was me thinking someone might want to have an actual discussion without trading slurs and insults.

There is nothing simple or binary about what I am saying. I don't see how it bears any resemblance to the love/fear pseudoscience from Donie Darko. What I do see is a bunch of people refusing to admit that they might have gotten tattoos because (on some level) they wanted to look a bit cooler.

Interestingly, one of the best ways to tell if an idea has any merit is by its ability to make predictions. Since I was able to accurately describe so much before hearing it, I already feel vindicated. Stormwall even described my dead Granny trope as something happening in his town, Chaos0x's 'this one girl' fit the mold of my "Wow you're deep" ego stroker. And other people have posted things which I find amusing, but I'm not going to dredge up now for fear of brusing more egos. How could I have known these things unless they are (as I have been pointing out) typical, and following a predictable pattern. So if a few people want to claim they are different and atypical, then I suppose it is no big loss. Perhaps they are different, or perhaps they are generic and in denial. Either way I feel I'm content to follow Blocklist's advice and drop the issue now.

**Stormwall**

And then there are the vast majority of reasons that I listed for myself getting on which I posted that you don't quote at all.

A tattoo can be as simple as a statement. The cool factor or impressing people is only one of many reasons to get one.

And that logic about getting them to look cool or to prompt conversation is gone the minute you factor in that the tattoo never sees the light of day.

**Ouze**

I got tattoos for the same reason I picked up smoking: so I can impress the high school girls when I'm loitering across the street in my Camaro with some Steely Dan blasting.

**MWHistorian**

Smacks wrote:
MWHistorian wrote:
A meaningful message between lovers isn't vanity. I don't think we agree on the definition.
Vanity is a difficult thing to discuss honestly. I'm not talking about excessive vanity as a character flaw, merely a natural human trait. Most people seem to go out of their way to pretend they don't care what people think, and aren't trying to impress anyone. Even though people who receive disfiguring injuries often take many years of counseling and soul searching to come to terms with their appearance, and truly adopt a carefree attitude. So I find it difficult to accept someone at their word when they claim not to care about how they look.

I don't know enough about the people you mentioned to discuss them in any meaningful way. But I expect they chose tattoos that they were comfortable with and found aesthetically pleasing, rather than disfiguring. I don't see why anyone would get a tattoo in order to look worse, so it follows that they must have intended the tattoos would augment their appearance in some way.

If you aren't comfortable calling that vanity, then we can agree to disagree. I would even be happy to concede that issue, since people with 100% private tattoos represent quite a small group. Most people seem keen to share tattoos when prompted. Many have posted their tattoos in this thread.

MWHistorian wrote:
You know what you remind me of? In Donnie Darko where they simplify all human emotion into "Love" and "Fear." I feel that that's what you're doing. Your view of motivations is way to binary and simplified to be accurate.
Oh sneaky edit.... You mean the pedophile antichrist guy? And there was me thinking someone might want to have an actual discussion without trading slurs and insults.

There is nothing simple or binary about what I am saying. I don't see how it bears any resemblance to the love/fear pseudoscience from Donie Darko. What I do see is a bunch of people refusing to admit that they might have gotten tattoos because (on some level) they wanted to look a bit cooler.

Interestingly, one of the best ways to tell if an idea has any merit is by its ability to make predictions. Since I was able to accurately describe so much before hearing it, I already feel vindicated. Stormwall even described my dead Granny trope as something happening in his town, Chaos0x's 'this one girl' fit the mold of my "Wow you're deep" ego stroker. And other people have posted things which I find amusing, but I'm not going to dredge up now for fear of brusing more egos. How could I have known these things unless they are (as I have been pointing out) typical, and following a predictable pattern. So if a few people want to claim they are different and atypical, then I suppose it is no big loss. Perhaps they are different, or perhaps they are generic and in denial. Either way I feel I'm content to follow Blocklist's advice and drop the issue now.

Tattoos that hold a significant emotional message to only be shared with their close loved one isn't "too make them look better."
Also, you like to cloak yourself with the victim card and take insult where none was said or intended. More people subscirbed to the binary theory of motivation than the Patrick Swayze character. It was the stupid philosophy I was discussing and how it's similar to your stupid philosopy. You ascribe all motivation to vanity, with I don't agree with, many people have shown other motivations which you ignore because it doesn't fit your simplistic beliefs and you discuss people's motivations that you can only speculate at and think you've proven yourself beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I think humans are more complex than that and can get tattoos for the love of the art. (one of many examples.)

**Smacks**

MWHistorian wrote:
Also, you like to cloak yourself with the victim card and take insult where none was said or intended.

I was joking. Although comparing my opinion to that vile new age psychobabble is quite offensive.

You ascribe all motivation to vanity

No I don't. Just part of the motivation pertaining to body modification.

Stormwall wrote:
And that logic about getting them to look cool or to prompt conversation is gone the minute you factor in that the tattoo never sees the light of day.

I don't really want to argue about this any more mate. With respect, I don't know you very well, yet I have already seen your tattoo and heard about your injury in service. I'm sure you don't go flashing it everywhere, but you have in fact shown it here, and we have had a conversation about it. So please lets not be too hasty to call other people's logic flawed. Please don't feel you have to make excuses, I'm sure the circumstances here were exceptional. But I'd rather just not talk about it anymore. I'm done with this topic now.

**Stormwall**

Good god you are a troll.

**Azza007**

Scars are the whole resin I got my legs tattooed. Have had tibial osteotomies on both legs which have left 6 inch scars down my knees. The tattoos take away from the scars and after getting them I could wear shorts again as I no longer felt the need to over up the scars, which I saw as hideous.

**dogma**

Stormwall wrote:

And that logic about getting them to look cool or to prompt conversation is gone the minute you factor in that the tattoo never sees the light of day.

True, but in my experience most men get tattoos in places that will often see the light of day* unless they dress in a very particular manner. And I don't think Smacks every said that vanity was the only factor.

*Shoulder, calf, upper back, forearm, etc.

**Desubot**

Dont forget the prison tattoo.

Some scary gak have quite a bit of meaning. (that is not strickly for vanity sake. (more like a warning))

**jreilly89**

Ouze wrote:
I got tattoos for the same reason I picked up smoking: so I can impress the high school girls when I'm loitering across the street in my Camaro with some Steely Dan blasting.

"I keep getting older, but they stay the same, yes they do."

Automatically Appended Next Post:

dogma wrote:
Stormwall wrote:

And that logic about getting them to look cool or to prompt conversation is gone the minute you factor in that the tattoo never sees the light of day.

True, but in my experience most men get tattoos in places that will often see the light of day* unless they dress in a very particular manner. And I don't think Smacks every said that vanity was the only factor.

*Shoulder, calf, upper back, forearm, etc.

No, but 99% of Smacks argument has been that people get tattoos for vanity reasons, even if they also have a noble reason.

So for you to say that you put something on your body (permanently), and you gave no thought whatsoever as to how it might be perceived by other people. In fact, that never crossed your mind until I brought it up just now? Well then I would say you are a liar. But I hope it will not come to that. I think you will agree that vanity did play some small part in your decision. That does not mean you are a vain person. I think vanity plays a part in all our decisions (mine included). I don't think that is unreasonable, is that so difficult to acknowledge?

**Smacks**

jreilly89 wrote:
No, but 99% of Smacks argument has been that people get tattoos for vanity reasons, even if they also have a noble reason.

How exactly is "some small part" equal to 99%? Without getting into decimals, 99% is the biggest part you can have. Anything larger would be a whole.

Desubot wrote:
Dont forget the prison tattoo.

Some scary gak have quite a bit of meaning. (that is not strickly for vanity sake. (more like a warning))

From earlier in the thread: "People do care about how they look and how they are seen by others. That is our sense of vanity. Vanity is not all bad. It is a useful and necessary part of our psyche, which protects us from being ridiculed and ostracized." -- Smacks

Where worse than prison to end up ridiculed and ostracized? Not wanting to appear weak is just a different aspect of not wanting to appear flawed.

**Haight**

dogma wrote:
Haight wrote:

In general if we're just talking mild weight lifting and cardio to drop fat, i think you could agree with my statement... yes ?

Not really. The calves can change pretty quickly as the muscles contained within are not only important to many exercises, but day-to-day life.

Okay.

I disagree, i think the calves are some of the most resistant to change body parts (along with forearms) without concentrated, concerted effort to resculpt them, as compared to say, the biceps (i was going to say arms, but you can over train your triceps super easy if you're not careful which will stymie progress), latissimus dorsi, or pectorals but i think its pretty clear we're not going to agree on this, which is cool.

I think what the OP can infer that maybe he should lose the weight before he makes any tattoo decisions. Or that the internet isn't a good place for advice like this, because people aren't going to agree.

I'd talk to my tattoo artist, or my trainer, or better yet, my trainer with lots of tattoos.

Edit: aaannnnd.... just caught up with the rest of the thread. Man did this go downhill quick. This is why we can't have nice things in OT people!

**Alpharius**

Haight wrote:
dogma wrote:
Haight wrote:

In general if we're just talking mild weight lifting and cardio to drop fat, i think you could agree with my statement... yes ?

Not really. The calves can change pretty quickly as the muscles contained within are not only important to many exercises, but day-to-day life.

Okay.

I disagree, i think the calves are some of the most resistant to change body parts (along with forearms) without concentrated, concerted effort to resculpt them, as compared to say, the biceps (i was going to say arms, but you can over train your triceps super easy if you're not careful which will stymie progress), latissimus dorsi, or pectorals but i think its pretty clear we're not going to agree on this, which is cool.

I think what the OP can infer that maybe he should lose the weight before he makes any tattoo decisions. Or that the internet isn't a good place for advice like this, because people aren't going to agree. I'd talk to my tattoo artist, or my trainer, or better yet, my trainer with lots of tattoos.

Edit: aaannnnd.... just caught up with the rest of the thread. Man did this go downhill quick. This is why we can't have nice things in OT people!

Pretty much!